Devastated! No eggs fertilised!!

[DJ202]

Hi all,

bad news - we've just learned that our most recent stimulation cycle resulted in no fertilised embryos - completely devastating news!!

We have one PGT-A normal tested embryo from my previous cycle and now the question is whether or not to transfer this one now (as I was gearing up for transfer this Wednesday already). The issue is that my stimulation this round was very long (15 days) and this may potentially impact implantation (although my endometrium on egg collection day was good, triple line and 10mm). We're abroad for treatment as well so need to be mindful about travel arrangements, etc.

Any advice/thoughts on whether or not to transfer the tested embryo now or in a new cycle are greatly appreciated - thanks so much! I'd also appreciate any advice on how to get over this shocking outcome - not sure how well I'll be able to cope with it... Thank you! xx

[Millbanks]

Argh no!! I'm so sorry to hear this - how heartbreaking for you. Do they have any insight as to why this has happened? I have heard of this happening after a long period of stimulation with others - maybe it just pushes the eggs too far.I would definitely take advice from your clinic about transferring the PGT-A tested embie. My worry would be that they may have pushed your body too far in this cycle. I've often found that during my stims I've not been able to do fresh transfers because my progesterone / oestrogen are too high or my body's not quite in the right place, and have waited a month for the body to recover before starting meds again. But that is not to say this is the same for you - your lining sounds great - and as you say with travel it's a lot of extra stress. Such a difficult decision. Sending much love to you xxx

[DJ202 in reply to Millbanks]

Thanks so much for your message, Millbanks, I really appreciate it! I definitely agree with your view that my body has been pushed too far - it was a very long stimulation period with a high amount of stims. I've had a chance to talk to the doctor yesterday (not mine, but his colleagues, as the former is now on holidays), and based on this and also my gut feeling I've now decided to wait with the transfer of the frozen embryo. The doctor said with my AMH value I'm lucky to have the PGT-A normal embryo from the previous cycle. I've been thinking about next steps and my idea is to come back for a final IVF round to hopefully have another embryo and then move on to transfer (at least that's my plan at this point). It's heartbreaking to know that all of the hassle and side effects and everything was for nothing this time round, but I'm not ready to give up just yet! x

[Millbanks in reply to DJ202]

It must be so frustrating for you - and like you say, feels like you went through all of that for nothing. But your plan sounds like a good one - having a PGT-A embryo in the bank must be very reassuring - I would take that to mean you can probably get more... It's good that you're not ready to give up - I find that sometime these setbacks just make me want it more!

I've got everything crossed for you xxx

[DJ202 in reply to Millbanks]

Thanks hun, that's very kind of you!! With all of the toughness and all this, there's the social isolation and lack of understanding and empathy from people on top of it. I'm currently battling with my brother being an idiot after my mum had told him I'm going through ivf (although I had explicitly asked her not to). His response to me telling him it failed was "too bad". I'm thinking seriously? This is something you can say if someone tells you they've missed the bus today. Plus his recommendation of moving back to Germany to get the treatment for free (which I wouldn't because I don't fulfil the insurance company's criteria). This is driving me nuts and it's depressing. Sorry about the rant, but felt like I needed to get it out! O.o I hope you're doing well and feeling OK!! xx

[Millbanks in reply to DJ202]

Owwww that’s a crappy thing for your brother to say. It never ceases to amaze me how insensitive some people can be. Sorry you’re dealing with that on top of everything else. Rant away!! That’s what I love about this forum!I’m good thank you. Feeling super tired today so just resting up xxx

[DJ202 in reply to Millbanks]

Bless you hun, you're very kind! It's been on my mind a lot, and I'm a bit worried this is going to taint our relationship moving forward, but given what I've previously heard from good and what I thought were clued up friends probably goes to show the overall lack of understanding and compassion when it comes to people going through ivf.

Make sure you look after yourself! Listen to your body and take a lot of naps! x

[Millbanks in reply to DJ202]

I think it’s virtually impossible for people who’ve not experienced Fertility issues to really understand how emotionally difficult it is. I don’t think it’s necessarily any fault of their own but it does make it much harder to connect with people about it. That’s why this forum is so great as everyone just gets it!!I hope things smooth over with your brother. I find that I just stopped telling people when it got too tough.

Thank you I will!! Xxx

[DJ202 in reply to Millbanks]

Thanks for this lovely, I think you're right. There's no point trying to explain yourself to others who really simply don't understand. I prefer to conserve my energy for getting through this tough journey. Connecting with people who aren't/ haven't been through it is tough and I'm really glad we have this forum to share our experiences! x

[Millbanks in reply to DJ202]

Yes absolutely! We need all the strength we can get!! Xx

[DianeArnold Partner Nurse Fertility Network UK]

Hi DJ. So so sorry to hear this. To have gone through a long cycle of stimulation to get a poor result. This could have happened because of a number of reasons, so while you are still "primed" for embryo transfer, my feelings would be to use the healthy embryo you have stored frozen. Obviously I hope you have plenty of support around you just now, even with being abroad. Thinking of you. Diane

[DJ202 in reply to DianeArnold]

Hi Diane, thank you for your message! I'm lucky to have my partner here with me and my mum and my partner's sister have been supportive! Now trying to look after myself and move on! x

[BBHH1]

I think it depends on 1- if you want to try another cycle before using the frozen embryo and 2- if don’t want any more cycles how optimized is your body for receiving the embryo. You have a good embryo so need to use it wisely. Best wishes

[DJ202 in reply to BBHH1]

Hi BBHH, you're absolutely right - I've got to use my embryo wisely, so will wait with transfer for another cycle in the future when my body hasn't been impacted by a very long and strong stimulation cycle. Fingers crossed! x

[Bella_Bee]

That is so shit, I'm so so sorry. On my first IVF none of my 12 eggs made it to day 5 embryos so I can empathise. But my second cycle was v v v different. I stimulated for 16 days, so one more than you, and currently 11 weeks pregnant from my fresh transfer immediately afterwards. All my blood tests were fine and the clinic never put the fresh transfer in question just because I stimulated for a long time. Good luck whatever you decide.

[DJ202 in reply to Bella_Bee]

Hi Bella, thanks a lot for your message! It is shit, yes, exactly!! I'm sorry that during your first round none of your eggs made it to day 5, that must have been so touch! Congrats on your pregnancy, this is fantastic news! May I ask what has changed in your therapy plan/life from the first cycle to this successful one? I'm planning to leave my PGT-A tested embryo for a future cycle and go for another stim round first as I want to maximise my chances. Now booked in with a counsellor and a nutritionist, and will add DHEA to my supplement regime. Any other recommendations, please feel free to let me know! x

[Bella_Bee in reply to DJ202]

Sure. A lot changed. I had a three month break and in that time I lost a stone (consecutive failed IUIs and IVF had taken a bit of a toll), started a mix of supplements ( daily: 1mg folic acid, 25ui vit D, 500mg coq10, 3mg melatonin and 3 times a day 25mg DHEA) changed sperm donor to a genetically tested for around 250 diseases US donor (I appreciate this is not an option for couples 😆), got genetically tested myself, did a long protocol with downregging first and stimulated for a long time (slow and steady was the aim) instead of the short protocol the first time round, did acupuncture during stimming as well as on the day of embryo transfer (before and after) and paid one of the best London clinics a shit load of money (wiped out my savings essentially) to monitor me very very very closely and for their embryologists and world class lab. I'll never know if the cheap option might have worked anyway after a few more attempts but after failing constantly for a year and at 38, I decided one expensive attempt was probably on a par with 4 or 5 cheap ones. And less fckng heartbreaking. I'm lucky to be able to though, I recognise that, don't mean to sound like an arsehole. Remember that any attempts to improve egg quality takes at least 3 months. Have everything crossed for you. Feel free to dm me for anything. Xo

[DJ202 in reply to Bella_Bee]

Hi Bella, thanks for your message! How did you get on with your determined strategy, are you feeling OK? Really happy for you that it's been so successful!! It's totally understandable you wanted to work with the best team. I'm currently considering moving on to another clinic if the next attempt doesn't work. I can empathise with all the adjuvant therapies/ supplement regime. I've been using Chinese medicine (both acupuncture and Chinese herbs) for many months and have a long list of supplements which I've been taking for 9 months to support conception. Eating healthy, no alcohol, no caffeine, no hot baths. If the sacrifices are temporary, that's OK but with this going on and on I wonder how much longer can I go through with this. I've decided to take a little time off now after the fertilisation failure and let my hair down for a bit as I feel I really need it. Then on to a new regime adding DHEA and melatonin, and will be talking to a counselor next week. I'm always happy to hear any more tips!

[Bella_Bee in reply to DJ202]

How am I doing? I've put on half a stone in the first trimester alone and all the misery is long forgotten 😁 I'm just so happy. Suuuuper apprehensive given my miscarriages but happy. I love your plan. Solid! Forgetting about it is the best thing you can do for a while. I really hope it works for you too xoxo

[DJ202 in reply to Bella_Bee]

I'm so happy for you that you can now fully focus on your pregnancy and look are yourself and really enjoy it! After all you've been through it's so very much deserved!! xx

[Skittles11 in reply to Bella_Bee]

Hi, sorry to butt in but could I ask you for the details of the clinic which monitored you very closely. I understand it needs to be by private message. Would appreciate it, thanks

[Bella_Bee in reply to Skittles11]

Sure, I'll DM you.

[Hidden]

Hello, I’m so sorry to read about your cycle where morning fertilised. This happened to me on my first cycle of ICSI end of last year and I will never forget the phone call. I had a low AMH and only 4/5 follicles in the running, and they told me I got 2 eggs when I came round from the sedation for EC. You sort of just expect they will fertilise, even if they don’t progress…my partner at the time and I were thrilled to imagine our egg and sperm finally meeting and uniting, even if ivf went no further for us that was the magic we counted on happening just once even. It’s like you prepare yourself for a “near miss” eg poor quality embryos, they don’t progress, they don’t implant, but to miss out all together was something I just didn’t feel prepared for and it was gutting. How are you doing now? Sending you best wishes just wanted to say I empathise xxxx

[DJ202 in reply to Hidden]

Hi hun, thanks for your response! I'm so glad I can come on here and find people like you who really get it!! I'm so sorry to hear about the outcome of your cycle too! It's devastating, all of the pain, heartbreak and everything for absolutely nothing. Yes I agree with you, not even having the chance of having the embryo develop let alone getting to transfer is just shocking. I think secretly I was hoping for an outcome similar to the one of my first cycle, which resulted in 7 eggs, 4 fertilised and 1 pgta normal tested embryo. I'm now thinking about next steps for the next cycle and how to improve on the outcome. Do you know what you're going to do yet? xx

[Hidden in reply to DJ202]

I really feel for you. What are your thoughts about the next step? I’m on day 11 of my second cycle, I’ve gone short instead of long this time. 4 follicles in the running (a couple of small ones in addition that they don’t think will do much now). I’m trying to take it a day at a time. If I can get something fertilised this time I’ll be pleased. My additional issue is a lining that doesn’t thicken past 4mm so I have to pray something is freezable as I will ultimately need to consider surrogacy with my situation, but I’m trying to persuade the clinic that this time if something fertilises but isn’t good enough to develop onto day 5/freeze will they please put it back anyway rather than throw the embryo away if that makes sense. I feel pregnant naturally with this same lining so I would like to see the whole thing through even if my chance of implantation is zero I’d rather that than the bin. I’m doing ICSI again this time with AOA, have you heard of it? They use it in clinics where fertilisation has failed, it was only in a chat with the embryologist that it came up and it isn’t very expensive xxx

[DJ202 in reply to Hidden]

Thanks hun, that's very kind of you! Thanks for providing the info on AOA - I've now done a bit of reading into it and it makes perfect sense! I've just got in touch with my clinic to ask if they can offer it as I didn't see it on their price list. If not, I'm considering looking elsewhere. I'm keeping my fingers crossed for your cycle and especially also the lining! I've read about a few things that can improve the lining - acupuncture, heatpads, pomegranate juice, vit e, l-arginine. You've managed to have a baby before so your body knows how to do it! yes, I think if there's an embryo even if it's of suboptimal quality on day 3 or 5 you might as well try it! There are so many stories of women having babies from embryos that didn't look optimal in the first place. Please keep me posted how you get on - sending lots of fertility energy xx