Bad news 😕

[Hope76]

Whilst in the middle of my pre- transfer accupuncture session this morning I got the dreaded phone call. The embryologist explained our one and only embryo has not divided as it should and is showing signs of fragmentation therefore my transfer today has been cancelled. Of course I am distraught, even my acupuncturist was in tears 😭

This is a first for us, guess I just have to accept sometimes you get a bad cycle?

On Thursday we have an appointment with our consultant and top of my list of questions will be why did she prescribe Menopur instead of Gonal f ? Why change something that worked first time ?

My first cycle with gonal f, collected 8 eggs with 3 viable embryos, aged 39 = 1 live birth. Second cycle they had me on Benfola, collected 5 eggs, 3 were viable embryos, aged 42 = BFP but sadly ended in miscarriage.

I have never taken much notice of the brands of the FSH drugs, they have never been explained to me in any detail. If I ever questioned this I was always told they all do the same. My research tells me no ....Menopur is different to Gonal f as has LH as well as FSH, am obviously questioning the choice of the FSH drug this time since only 1 egg collected. I have been told by a Nurse they will give me gonal f the next time but I don’t have time on my side, wish I insisted on gonal f in beginning of this cycle but I trusted their choice.

The nurse feels would’ve made no difference ? Anyone had similar happen or can offer me any advice please ?

Being 43 now I do accept this could be an age factor and this may be the end of the road for us, however had I been on gonal f I could accept this being the case.

[MissSaoPaulo]

Sending you big hugs, I'm so sorry to see you've had such disappointing news. No advice to give unfortunately, but I hope you can get some answers to give you a little peace of mind xxx

[3005]

So sorry to hear that, I was really hoping it was the one.

I have no experience on Gonal F or advise on what to do I’m afraid but hopefully someone can help you on here.

Take care, hope you get some answers x

[Suzannah1985]

Hi Hope,

Sorry to hear this, it is devastating when you get that call.

I had the opposite problem to you, low response on Menopur so they switch me to Gonal F and I ended up with poor quality eggs that didn’t make it to transfer. I now have to take a combination of Menopur and Gonal F to get the best results.

So in my experience they are different, I think that Menopur has naturally derived FSH and Gonal F is synthetic.

Sending hugs x

[Hope76 in reply to Suzannah1985]

Thanks that is really helpful, I had a chat with the Nurse today and told her have heard of some women doing a mixture of gonal f & Menopur, she advised my clinic do not mix the 2 drugs. She did however say she totally sees where am coming from regarding my Doctor prescribing Menopur when gonal f has worked for me in the past. Looking forward to the next stage as I do not believe this is the end of the road in my quest for a sibling for my son 😘

[Scarlett13]

Ive only ever had menopur, never gonal f, so don’t know the difference x so sorry to hear about this round

[Novice_knitter]

I don’t know enough about these drugs to help. I’ve only ever had menopur but totally get what you’re questioning - or - why switch of another drug has worked so well before.

So sorry to hear that this has happened - I hope you get some answers that will help.

Xxx

[Kirmie]

So sorry to hear that. Take time to process it and don’t give yourself a hard time.

[Ajplus1]

I’m sorry you didn’t get the news you were after hun. Sending you lots of love. Good luck with your appt on Thursday xx

[aamiller405]

No advice but very sorry to hear this news xo

[Shirazlover2013]

Oh that’s a terrible phone call to receive I’m so sorry. If you’re thinking about another round then your questioning and research re drugs could facilitate a purposeful conversation with your clinic. Good luck xx

[Olderwiser]

Oh no I’m so so sorry, I had everything crossed for you. I’d definitely go back Thursday and grill them about it all. If you can financially and emotionally cope with another cycle I’d insist on a gonal f one just so you have peace of mind you tried everything that you wanted to do. Sometimes I think this process is a road of self-education, you have to trust your gut and your knowledge of your own body as well as your clinic. Good luck x x

[Hope76 in reply to Olderwiser]

I know I trusted their word I.e different brand but do same. Nurses feel my Dr would’ve had good reason to change but was never relayed to us. So looking forward to that explanation. Disappointing as this time did the health kick 3 months beforehand, took DHEA and Ubiquinol plus weekly accupuncture. First round when I got 8 eggs and my now 3 year old son I did nothing different, just shows x

[Dreamingofbaby]

So sorry to hear this hun. Big hugs x

[Cinderella5]

Sorry to hear your news, truly devastating to think your meds may have completely wrecked this cycle. It sounds like you have a plan for your next cycle, hoping the clinic can give you some guidance on what they think went wrong for this one. Hugs.xx

[Hope76 in reply to Cinderella5]

Thank you, I will hopefully be clearer on Thursday as to why my consultant put me on Menopur. Doesn’t help for each cycle now had different consultants. My clinic deal with NHS and private patients and are seriously understaffed. Feels as if she never even checked my history as if she did she surely would’ve prescribed gonal f. I would be prepared to accept its age factor had I been on the drugs I had previously had my best response too granted I was lot younger then ....

[Cinderella5 in reply to Hope76]

Yes it does seem a bit strange to me. I had a cycle where my embryos didnt do well and we had nothing to transfer too and Im sure it was drugs related (although nothing was admitted) and we got a replacement cycle. My NHS clinic seemed to use Menopur for slightly older ladies, hope the consultation goes well.xx

[Hope76 in reply to Cinderella5]

Kinda stings when paid £4K they suggested pushing ahead with collection since 2 measurable follicles. However it was a very slim chance. Wishing now had not went ahead but we just followed their advice. Lessons learned, we will get 1k back since no transfer. I think if new cycle works with gonal f then once finished I would Defo make complaint as feel I don’t have the time or money to waste at this stage x

[Cinderella5 in reply to Hope76]

Oh ouch, that is a sore one! I would defo make a complaint about that one if you get much better results with the gonal f! That was our plan but we didnt have to, however we were NHS at the time so I guess its a bit different from being in the private sector!xx

[dreams28]

Hey sorry to hear this. My last cycle at 39...I am now 40 and 26 weeks pregnant, my clinic chose to use gonal f and menap o r in combination. I stimmed with gonal f the first 7 days then added menapor too. I was told gonal f will give me quantity and menapor will add quality. It worked well for me. From 7 eggs I had 3 good grade blasts... 1 hatching ..1 expanded and one blast. Might be worth discussing with your clinic. Good luck x

[Hope76 in reply to dreams28]

Thanks so much, I will Defo ask about this. At 39 was on gonal f and from 8 , had 3 good grade blasts. Quality has never been an issue but I suspect at 43 they expect them to be lower quality and this is probably the reason they prescribed Menopur. The nurse told me they do not mix the 2 ..... but perhaps DR will listen as that’s good few women advised me of that now x

[AnnieAnnie]

Hey there I have had a similar kind of thing happen. On my first cycle (age 33) on low ish dose menopure I got 6 eggs, 5 mature, 5 fertilised (without icsi), 3 blasts on day 5, one 4ab transferred, nothing to freeze on day 6 - bfn. Second cycle, (age 34) top dose menopure, 2 eggs collected, 1 mature and fertilised with icsi, day 3 transfer (grad 2/3 embryo) - bfn. Third cycle, top dose gonal-f, one egg collected and fertilised with icsi, embryo not dividing right and on day 5 still only 8 cells and abnormal (grade 3 embryo). My clinic are blaming it on the quality of my eggs (even though it was only 10 months between my first and second cycle). I think the high doses of meds over a short stim period didn't help with my quality. I'm currently on a break from IVF and will be using clomid again to try to do things with a bit less meds when I do get back to it all. I feel like my last 2 cycles were a waste (both my NHS rounds) but at no point did my clinic want me to cancel. I plan to get a second opinion from my first (private) clinic when I'm ready to start again. There are definitely different options with using different meds. Good luck with your clinic xx

[Hope76 in reply to AnnieAnnie]

Thanks Annie, it’s so frustrating, I have never questioned he drugs that much but now I feel I have a very good reason. My clinic do NHS/private so had a successful nhs cycle with them but this is now my second private. Weirdly I have found since being private the service has not been as great as I felt when NHS. I feel the first 2 cycles they have used different drugs from my first NHS go which was luckily successful. No matter what will always have my one miracle boy aged 3 now. But time is running out now am 43 & am just desperate to give him a sibling. Don’t have time for them to meddle about with drugs. I am considering second opinion too but the alternative clinic is so far away from us 😕 wishing you all the best for the future. Do not give up.... 3rd time lucky 🤞🏼🙏🏻

[AnnieAnnie in reply to Hope76]

I think the hard thing is each time it doesn't work the question is, what can we do to make it better next time. When sometimes just staying and doing what you've already done might be the answer. I wish on my second cycle we would have stuck with the lower dose menopure, but I got dragged into, "we really want to stimulate you and get more eggs" and was excited to maybe do more. It's going to cost me for my second opinion but I feel I need it to determine, when I do go ahead with ivf again, whether I go with DE or my own eggs. Thank you xx

[Olivia1980xxx]

Oh no hun I’m so sorry 😔 I don’t understand either why would they put u on Menopur in first place if u had such a good outcome on gonal f . My last two cycles I was on gonal f first I was on dosage 300iu and this one now 375iu . Doctor told me that they got better respond using Gonal F in general. I’m so sorry hun don’t leave this like that without fight. Xx

[Hope76 in reply to Olivia1980xxx]

Thanks Hun, I will be quoting some of the responses on here and definitely your one as I have only ever been on 300 iu. They say this is highest dose! Losing faith in them a bit. I respect their expertise in fertility but they have to listen when so many women are clearly responding to gonal f better than other FSH drugs.

[AnnieAnnie in reply to Hope76]

I was on 400 iu of gonal-f for my 3rd cycle and was told that was the highest dose. I also had 400 iu of menopure but that was on my second cycle xx

[Alpatchino]

I have a similar story. I did an IUI with Gonal F and got 6 follicles and had to do follicle reduction. When the time came to do IVF at the NHS they decided to change me to meriofert (similar to menopur) although I had such a great response to Gonal F. I did not responded well to meriofert and ended up stiming for 13 days....

[Hope76 in reply to Alpatchino]

Very interesting, thank you, I am going to be relaying my findings from this forum to my Doctor tomorrow. I wish she had explained and gave us the option.....

[MightyB]

So sorry to hear this. I had a good response in my first cycle with Gonal-f (age 35) with 11 eggs, 8 fertilised, one 5 day transfer and 3 frozen. Ended in chemical pregnancy. This time (age 36) I was also confused why they switched to Menopur if they said my last cycle went well. They told me sometimes they just like to try something different and everyone responds differently. Today on my day 8 of stims scan I only had 4 follicles over 10mm which they said is less than they'd hoped for and a lot less than my last cycle at this point. I asked again why they had switched me and as others have said, they said Menopur is thought to provide higher quality. But like you, they never suggested quality was a problem last time. But maybe since it didn't stick, they thought it was worth switching meds.

[Hope76 in reply to MightyB]

That is interesting, it was never explained to me. When I queried it I was told different brands but they do the same! I will find out the reasons at my follow up tomorrow. I wish to god I cancelled before egg collection now as it stands I only get around £900 back out of £4000. I feel at this stage of my treatment when we have paid around £10000 we can’t afford for them to try out different drugs. I have been told by one nurse the doctors will tell you it would’ve been exactly the same outcome given your age. However I could accept this had we been on gonal f. It doesn’t help I have had 3 or 4 different consultants there is no consistency and tomorrow I will be requesting that changes. I wish you all the luck in the world at least you have 4....hopefully by egg collection they will have grown even more 🤞🏼🙏🏻