So after asking you lovely men and women for advice the other day on DE, we had our follow up appointment after all of my eggs failed to fertilise......We were told previously that if we had the same result (of none fertilising. Fist round was at a different clinic) then we should go to DE but then yesterday the Dr said that my eggs were 'beautiful' and they now think its my husbands sperm.... Wtf?!?! We're now totally confused, how have they just done a 180?! I was kind of at peace with DE and we had a plan that that would be our next step. But now we feel back to square one with a pointless wasted cycle under our belt. Anyone else had anything like this? His sperm looks fine to the naked eye, so we're now booked in for sperm DNA fragmentation. Xxx
Confused. Com! : So after asking you... - Fertility Network UK
Confused. Com!
How frustrating for you both. Good that they're looking into things further but what a shame this wasn't done before the second cycle!! These are so tough on us physically and emotionally I can understand you're upset at having done one for 'nothing' but you'll need these answers on the sperm whether you go with donor eggs or not and you'll be getting some more information to make your decision further down the line. It's a positive development in a lot of ways, it's always good to have more information, but what a shame it wasn't done sooner!!
Maybe ask about having karyotyping done on both of you too if you can afford another test. Balanced chromosome translocations such as my husband has can cause lack of fertilisation but it’s only about a 2% chance that one of you has this. I always recommend karyotyping because it gave me my answers.
Thanks Lizzie, we'll definitely look into it. Are they able to do anything about it? Or do you have to use donor sperm? X
We have been able to fertilise through icsi and they then test the embryos. We got one viable embryo on our third round and I’m now 38 weeks pregnant. The reason it might be useful is that it might help you to identify whether your issue is sperm or eggs x
Ah I see, huge congratulations!! Xxx
I feel your pain, we had failed fertilisation with icsi and had known sperm issues but nothing had pointed to me have any issues up until that point. It was right before my 39th birthday and they said my egg quality was very poor and they just blamed my age. I’m unsure how they know my egg quality was poor as they didn’t go into any detail. So we are looking at using donor eggs but in the meantime I’m getting checked by my GP to see if I’m deficient in any vitamins or minerals as I have intolerances and issues with my tummy. Prob just a shot in the dark but thankfully my GP thinks it’s worth checking although the clinic stated that dietary changes etc would make no difference in their view. I’m worried also that if we go for donor eggs and then it turns out we have failed fertilisation again due to sperm quality. My partner needs to stop smoking before we can proceed and the waiting list is around 9 months for DE so I’m going to be over 40 before we can even try again. We can only have one funded round, we paid this time, so we’re skint. It’s all just really shit and I’m signed off work currently as I can’t handle it right now! I just feel helpless cause I feel like I have no control over anything and the time scale before we can try again is so long, that’s even if my partner can manage to stop as he’s failed in the past, and yesterday he got laid off from his work, just to add to the stress! 😭 sorry none of this is any help to you but I just wanted you to know you’re not alone! x
Oh hon, what a stressful time for you. Keep your chin up and focus on what you can control. It's a good idea to get checked for deficiencies for your overall health, regardless of whether it can make a difference to the eggs. Your poor hubby, what a time to be trying to cut down on smoking - but think of the money you'd save!! You could keep it in a jar as your IVF fund and put it towards vitamin supplements or something if your tests turn up any deficiencies!!
Wishing you both the best of luck xxx
Oh gosh, I'm so sorry to hear you're going through so much! I would definitely ask to speak to your embryologist to try and understand why they say poor quality. What's the problem with the sperm? Is there anything they can do? Have you looked at going abroad? Some people say it's cheaper and the waiting list is much shorter. Xxx
Hello we had a failed ICSI last week. The eggs fertilised and got to day three then started to die. The clinic have told us that because they fertilised and got to day three it’s not the eggs it’s the sperm. Xxx
Really sorry to hear yours didn't work either. What have they suggested you do next? X
We are heading in for a consultation in a few days to see the next step. I’ll let you know what I find out. Keep ur chin up xxx
I am so sorry to read this. I had exactly the same issue. Five fertilised and progressing nicely, then at Day 3 they all stopped....my clinic told me it could be eggs or sperm. The doctor said the egg drives the development, not the sperm - so confusing!
He said if it fails again in the same way (and there is a 10% chance) then it is definitely an egg quality issue. So now I am petrified 😢
So confusing with different doctors saying the different things....
Really hope your next cycle goes better x
From my experience, I would get the sperm thoroughly tested before you blame the eggs. I took 4 different supplements between cycles (2.5months), so maybe my eggs did improve but I doubt drastically enough to make them do a 180 and blame the sperm the second time. I think the only test they can do on the eggs is karyotyping as mentioned by Lizzie on here. Everything crossed for your next cycle! X
The doctor said that the egg carries it till day 3 then the sperm steps in and the embryo goes it alone after that xxx
I actually asked my doctor that he said the opposite - that’s it is the egg throughout. I would love to believe your doctor though! Can I ask which clinic you use?
Wishing you all the best xxxxx
I’m at Tahe Fertilidad in murcity city spain. Where are u at? Xxx
I also went abroad - I am at SAFE in Bangkok.... 🙄
My clinic also say that after day three it’s usually the sperm if that’s when failure happens. Apparently day four is a big transition day for embryos.
Thanks so much for this. It is so hard to know what the doctor says is right or not. I really want to believe that it is the sperm as it will be an easier fix. He used tesa the first time around (he felt so much pressure on the day he couldn’t do a fresh sample). We will probably use frozen sperm next time...x
Can I also ask, do you know about the DNA fragmentation test? My husband got 46%, what does that actually mean? X
Sorry one more question! I am finding that our clinic is good for women, but they ignore the sperm factor and are not very good at sperm diagnosis. Can you recommend a clinic that can help get us more answers (and a BFP!) thanks so much x
Hi I’m sorry I don’t know about sperm fragmentation as we chose not to have this test. I do know that to improve sperm they recommend supplements (menevit or condensyl are what my clinic recommend) so my hubbie just took condensyl and ubiquinol in case his sperm needed it. I suggest you do a new post so that other forum users who know more about sperm issues will be able to share their experiences x
I suppose it’s better to have it al checked. Good news that your eggs are fab, there’s always something they can do - our eggs can be very pick too which doesn’t help. Xx
Quite frustrating however they learn something different from each attempt and they are trying to give you advice and guidance on the latest findings. Sperm can improve and can do so quite quickly. Also, icsi can aide with success with slightly weaker sperm. Lots that can be done. Good luck xxx
We've already tried icsi twice with nil fertilisation which doesn't give us much hope! Fingers crossed the sperm dna fragmentation can tell us something that we can do something about. X
Fingers crossed for you. Ask as many questions as you can. Xxx
Do u have any info on improving sperm? We have poor quality motility and morphology 😢 xxx
I'm not 100% sure but someone on here recently said ubiquinol worked really well for them. X
My clinic suggest either condensyl or menevit as one a day supplements to improve sperm quality. They’re not cheap though.
Look up zero fertilisation. A chemical reaction is needed to initiate fertilisation and sometimes sperm lack the protein needed - plz ceta- or there is a problem with the egg activation. Oxford had a trial to test for the protein, it may still be running. There is a test that you can do in Belgium called the MOAT test to see if it is an egg or sperm problem. The solution to fix it is quite simple but not done very much in the uk. It uses a calcium inotrope to initiate activation. There is so much information on a fertility friends forum (it may be be a different forum it was quite a long time ago I looked into it but it’s easy to find on google). Good luck and I hope you get some answers. If you need any more info pm me. X
Hi SRA8, they dipped my eggs in calcium ionophore this time which I think is what you're talking about above. I'm kind of hoping it's a sperm issue as I don't think there is anything more they can do for my eggs if it's an egg problem. Any links you can send me for the Oxford test would be great. Xxx
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