Some positive things about CKD

[RickHow]

Naturally the majority of posts are always discussing the problems, treatments, and experiences of living with CKD. It is an excellent website. And of course most of the news is less than positive. I came across a posting on the internet from the NHS in the UK, concerning living with CKD. I provide the link. But some highlights include: CKD only reaches the advanced stages in a small portion of people with CKD; about 1 in 50 (who have CKD) reach an advanced stage. We have all read the posts about diets, etc. if you have CKD. Most scream about avoiding protein (animal based especially) and certain foods. This article actually lists that you should have MEAT as your source of protein. Also starchy foods such as potatoes, bread, rice, pasta. (Personally I have meat about 2 to 3 times a week and fortunately for 3 years have maintained a basically stable egfr, in fact sometimes with improvement). Moderation, in my mind, is the key. It does recommend the usual of no smoking, limited alcohol, getting all available vaccinations. I'm not saying this report it the final word, is 100% perfect, or anything like that. But I found it an interesting read, and in some cases a more positive outlook instead of many which to my mind overreact and scare people with lower stages of CKD that death is fast approaching, when it is not. The egfr formula in my view when it comes to assigning disease to people at such levels as stage 1 or 2 is flawed. But that is just one mans opinion. Enjoy the read:

nhs.uk/conditions/kidney-di...

[orangecity41]

The CKD diet I was prescribed does include meat and other food groups, but in moderation. I do track my diet to see I am on track for the limits prescribed. Interesting article.

[Sunglobe]

Hi RickHow,

Very interesting article. I was just replying to the post looking for cookbooks, and yes, I've been on the Plant Based diet recommendation since CKD with improvements in labs. But I'm open to this intetesting information and like to read as many opinions as I can. I read about the egfr formula being unreliable for diagnosis etc. & a low one can stay stable for years & years and maybe a lifetime with no diet changes at all. Getting protein is different from plant based foods, and it could very well be that moderation IS key. Thanks and I'll be reading it again!

[madonbrew in reply to Sunglobe]

I am really rubbish with diet...have always struggled with food etc and I was looking the other day of when I first joined up here in 2013 and my eGFR hasn’t changed that much! It’s 37 now and been stable for some years now. I’m 42 years old. That’s not to say it won’t all suddenly change but it’s 7 years much the same.

[RickHow in reply to madonbrew]

I happen to agree with you. Especially since each of us are so different. Different ages, body types, metabolism, life style (exercise or not, smoking or not, drinking or not, taking different medications for different reasons, may have other illnesses, etc., etc.). All the hype, in my opinion, on very strict CKD diets to "slow" CKD, often contradict each other.

I was told for example by doctors drink a lot of water, for years. My last visit my kidney doctor said, just drinking normal amounts is more than sufficient. That in fact they are starting to wonder if drinking larger than "normal" amounts actually prevents the kidney from eliminating enough Creatinine from the system. A kidney can only process a set amount of volume per day. And the primary goal of processing out excess water, does NOT mean that that water actually has Creatinine in it too. And most diets yell that protein is terrible for CKD. When in actuality it is EXCESS protein that MAY be harmful, but only after a long period of time. As my doctors tell me, "everything in moderation or normal amounts". Excess protein, salt, etc., is just as harmful for a person with CKD as it is for a person without.

All that said of course applies to those who are not in what is labelled "late stage 4". For those that reach advanced stage ( 1 out of 50 as the article said) there are many other considerations such as cardio vascular, bp, etc., and diet that need to be considered.

My kidney doctor said it best as an example, "if you have 2 servings of beef a week, versus 0 servings of beef a week, it will make no difference".

[Sunglobe in reply to madonbrew]

I agree! Hard as some of us try to follow to all the diet recommendations- I find like RickHow and many others, so much of the information on diets is contradictory , and we all have many different issues that come into account. So, you do the best you can with moderation in mind, but it's pretty exhausting thinking about what you eat all the time- that's for sure!

[Bassetmommer]

the thing about diets are they often based on the knowledge available at the time and the funded research going on. There are many diets that have come and gone through the ages. there was Atikins and now Keto. All are not sustainable for life. Do you remember when eggs were considered poision, so high with cholesterol and so forth. And now they are saying that they are a health food. So go with the flow and stick with what works for you.

[Hul1]

Hi Rickhow- hope your doing ok .

I like many many others freaked out when we first get told I had CKD .

( I think I’m right in saying in the Uk you get told you have it basically when your efgr dips below 60 - age wise after 50 ) I say after 50 as when I was told I was 58 ... my efgr was -I think around 54-57 . When i asked what it was like 10 years ago it was in low 60s . Anyhow ... all’s I got told - not to worry - and just eat sensibly - never got told to avoid any foods . We never get to see a nephrologist - unless your efgr is dropping rapidly- or it is so low for your age. Diet - after freaking out finding out I had CKD - I like most done research and changed my diet. Basically plant based diet - although still eat fish and chicken. Cut out my “ wee dram” of whisky every night ..... Now I did get my efgr back up to 64 -.... hey I don’t have CKD anymore ! - hmmmm

Anyhow my Zinc levels dropped - and so was prescribed Zinc supplements. .. as we know best zinc source is red meat .

Right now - I have red meat once a week - I’m not a big fish eater but try to manage it once a week - I have chicken once a week.

I have a drink maybe once or twice a week , and I still have my treats - chocolate and cakes! ( wish I could give them up ! Specially as I made a promise to shift 25lbs by end of October... .... I’ve shifted the date Instead- now to end of December lol )

[RickHow in reply to Hul1]

Seems you are doing fine and that is what counts, and that is good to hear. I too suffer a weakness for treats. And it seems our diets are similar. I rarely have beef. i have meat about 3 times a week, such as well trimmed pork or boneless skinless chicken. Other days are pasta, soups, sandwich, etc. The only thing I monitor is protein intake which I try to keep at the normal daily recommended requirements. Of course I have the metastatic kidney cancer on top of everything else, but I don't let that be an excuse for not eating within normal daily recommendations, but not as extreme as very low protein, or no meat, no sweets, no alcohol (occasional use), etc. Whatever my time left is I want to live it, not just exist. I try to be sensible. My father used to say, as he was elderly and in his 90's, there is more to life than just breathing longer.

[RhenDutchess123 in reply to RickHow]

We can get busy living...Or we can get busy dying....

[Hul1]

A Brilliant out look on life Rick, I agree. With the way the world is now- unfortunately all doom and gloom - sometimes we forget to 'live" Everything in moderation - and keep the stress levels low as best we can! Take care Rick !

[Darlenia]

Excellent view - moderation in everything is the way to go. I've always appreciated views from other countries, and I've noticed that European reporting generally tends to be well researched and deliberative. It's a welcome respite in a world where people often embrace absolutes as the key to a long life when there is not such thing. Thank you!

[HealthBuddyMelissa]

I agree that there is a lot of negativity around CKD. However, I think once people learn that you can live a fruitful life with CKD, with changes to diet and lifestyle, it can become more positive. I have been researching a lot this past month on Phosphorus in the diet, vegan, plant-based, etc in relation to CKD. I think the one thing I learned and have said many times, is that all kidney patients are different. We all have different needs, socio-economic needs, family needs, etc making one size fits all recommendations unsuitable. Tracking food intake, labs, and symptoms IMO are the best way for everyone. I eat meat. I gave it up for a week, no meat at all, and felt like crap. I love the NKF website, and they have lots of information.

[ShellyC23]

I’m at the freaking out stage now, having been told that my eGFR has dropped to 17 after hovering around 30 for years. I eat a sensible diet, am not overweight and am a non smoker. I do, however, have a multitude of medical conditions going on which makes me “complicated ‘.

I need to have repeat blood test next week and medication has been slightly tweaked. Fingers crossed it’s just a blip and it will go up to over 20, if not then I’ll be off to see the nephrologist.