Vitamin B12

[foxglove]

Sorry if I have posted this already. My husband is type 2 and on metformin, his vitamin B12 is in range but at the bottom end so doc. wont prescribe any. I've been giving him Better You B12spray (on his food) which has brought level up a little. Not sure if I should be doing this - any one got any help or advice? - Thanks

[Activity2004 Administrator]

Have you told your husband's doctor you've given him the B12 Better You spray before doing so? If so, what had he/she said? How much do you use?

[foxglove in reply to Activity2004]

No haven't told doctor. Did tell doctor I was thinking of it, he sort of shrugged and said "not necessary but unlikely to do any harm" Husband also has been diagnosed with Alzheimer's (still in early stages) and I notice when I "administer" b12 he is more lucid . When I started it was sort stop/go. I use the recommended 4 sprays daily - on food but sometimes forget

[foxglove in reply to foxglove]

Sorry meant to say that as far as I know can't overdose on B12 as excess excreted in urine

[Activity2004 Administrator in reply to foxglove]

Early stage Alz. does need B12 for some... Not sure why the doctor shrugged off what you told him, but I can't see any harm using it especially if it keeps him lucid.

[Gambit62 in reply to Activity2004]

foxglove - please take a look at and post on the PAS forum - Pernicious anaemia is the most common cause of B12 deficiency but the forum deals with B12 deficiency in general - including problems in getting a diagnosis because doctors really are very unaware of what a B12 deficiency is and can be fixated on anaemia which is a symptom and not a defining characteristic.

Metformin is known to interfere with the absorption of B12 but symptoms tend to get put down to diabetes because they overlap hugely.

One of the symptoms of B12 deficiency is dementia - there is about a 6 month window, generally speaking to treat this - and if it is treated it is reversible - so you are doing the right thing.

Evidence non B12 in relation to alzheimers and other dementias is very mixed as to whether it helps or not.

Sorry - have to rush now so can't reply fully

healthunlocked.com/pasoc/posts

[foxglove]

Gambit62 - thanks for your knowledgeable and supportive reply, I went along the avenues you have suggested before giving the B12 to husband, difficult to be sure but I think the cognitive probs. started (almost imperceptibly) after he had been on Metformin for some time. Did tell doc. but he was only interested in the fact that husband's blood glucose normal. Also as husband overweight Metformin is the standard drug, and I have been told that it also HELPS with memory !!! it was the nurse at diabetic check who told me B12 borderline and at next check (different nurse) said husband slightly anaemic, blood rechecked, but as usual doc. just going on range, even if low said NO ACTION NEEDED...... Sorry to have gone on a bit but I feel you understand and perhaps I'm clutching at straws to find a reason other than Alzheimer's. Husband has other physical probs. which I CAN deal with

Will take another look at PAS and if you would be kind enough to keep in touch I should be grateful. Thanks

[Gambit62 in reply to foxglove]

Sorry not to have replied earlier - didn't spot that you had responded.

Please do join the PAS forum - there are lots of people on there who have both B12 problems and diabetes ... and whilst the B12 problems may be down to metformin that won't always be the case.

really sorry that you are having problems - I don't have diabetes but am acutely aware of it as it runs in my mothers side of the family (a MODY variant that wasn't identified until quite recently). My mother inherited the gene from her father and my brother inherited it from my mother but I escaped that - just have B12 problems (which I actually think come from my fathers side of the family - as he was the one who had depression and similar neuro problems to the ones that I had for 20+ years before I was told in hospital that my B12 levels were low). However, my grandmother's last year or so now makes me think that there was a B12 deficiency going on there - though she was well into her 90s at that point.

My grandfather died after a long spell of dementia when I was much younger. My mother has been in decline for a number of years but I've only found out about B12 in the last few years so think she was probably too far gone before I was ever aware though her behaviour did get rather odd last year ... she was given B12 loading shots which helped but then went down hill again very rapidly between loading shots - which is pretty much like me.

Unfortunately there is so much overlap on B12 symptoms and diabetes and so little interest in investigating the possibility of 2 conditions being present that it is very difficult to get B12 taken seriously. There are similar problems with B12 and thyroid ... and the fact that there isn't a good test for B12 deficiency just makes things worse.

Metformin may be the standard drug but it is one that has a caution against using in elderly patients - particularly anyone over the age of 80.

There are some studies that imply that metformin may help the metabolism of B12 once it has been absorbed but not sure that they have been totally conclusive. However, it is well established that it can cause problems with absorption.

If your husband is responding to the B12 then it is quite possible that it may be part of the problem ... and actually B12 is something where symptoms are far more important than test results ... if only there was a magic wand that could be waved that made GPs realise that.

[foxglove]

Hi, was in process of composing a long and detailed reply to your very interesting post when it just VANISHED.....You've given me lots to think about and I have joined PAS.

Good of you to share family history

Husband is 78 and has been on metformin since he was 70, it controls diabetes but "No such thing as a "free meal" I hadn't been aware of the B12/diabetes connection, I was just blaming Metformin for low B12.. whole issue confusing but will keep going, an answer is there some where. Do you think?

And yes, a magic wand- not just for the GPs would be wonderful, meantime I'll keep on with B12 spray.

Hope you have a calm, peaceful day.

[Gambit62 in reply to foxglove]

sorry - wasn't aware that you had responded - if you hit on the reply button by a response and reply that way then I get a message - don't think I could cope with following every post out there.

At 78 your husband is in a high risk category for B12 anyway - the probability of a deficiency gets greater with age as stomach acidity falls. It will also affect ability to absorb other nutrients in diet - and unfortunately the symptoms of low stomach acidity are so similar to high stomach acidity it often gets treated with products designed to lower stomach acidity making things worse. So, he may not be absorbing folate very well from his food either and that will affect his ability to process and use B12.

Hope to hear from you at some point on the PAS forum.

[foxglove]

ThanksGambit62,did all the correct things re. reply but it still vanished into the ether! Probably just as well as it was a bit of a ramble. Husband doesn't seem to have stomach acid probs. (either low or high and I know the two often confused esp. by docs.) Along with Alzheimer's there's also a prostate issue which he finds distressing. First appt. for biopsy had to be re-scheduled due to constipation, second appt. I couldn't even take him to hosp. as he had diarrhoea, next appt. on 21st Sept. so crossing fingers for 3rd time lucky. Seems I just can't win these days

This is not meant to be a sorry for poor me letter, it's bank holiday weekend so hope you've got an enjoyable time planned. I'm "attacking " the garden

[Lavvo]

I have taken B12 and Metformin together for over 3 years with absolutely no side effects