Diabetes & Milk and its products!

Diabetes & Milk and its products!

Dear all,I just searched internet for effect of milk and its products on diabetes and I have got a lot of controversy.So,Please,answer the following:

i)Is milk good for a diabetic person or not?

ii)Which milk should be preferred-full fat or skimmed?

iii)A diabetic person can add milk in tea/coffee or not?

iv)Which milk products can be taken?

v)What quantity of milk and its product can be included in daily diet?

Please,share your experience and knowledge!

64 Replies

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  • Controversy around Western milk (A2 protein) doesn't apply to India at all. I prefer curd (strained) to milk, and curd made from full fat milk as toned/skimmed milk is useless. Curd should be > 1 day old with slightly sour but pallatable taste. Add fresh cream to up the fat content further.

  • Yoghurt spikes insulin, and it's the protein that does it, not the carbohydrate mendosa.com/insulin_index.htm .

    Tea or coffee are not good for us in themselves because of their stimulant qualities.

    healthunlocked.com/heartuk/...

  • Straining (removing that whey+ sugar in the watery stuff) blunts the spikes. :)

    Depends. Coffee or tea may be bad for a High Carber. Have't found any thing bad about it over the last four years. Stimulant yes, but haven't seen it spike sugar when I take black coffee with VCO.

    Mendosa lives on a 50-60 gm carbs/day, IIRC. Too difficult for Indians to live on that range of carbs.

  • If anything your blood glucose may be lowered by the spike in insulin.

    As you know, I wouldn't advocate most people going that low in carbs/day; replacing the amount we use is the most sensible.

  • Yes we are in the same boat. I look for around 100 grams carbs/day and also insist on aiming for TG/HDL < 2.5 as that ensures lower/lowest insulin resistance, so lesser insulin does more work.

    TG/HDL lower the better.

  • How to obtain TG/HDL target of 2.5

  • Lower triglycerides by eating lower carbs.

    All processed food should be avoided.

  • What happened to your old account? I find none of posts which you had posted earlier from the old account.

  • If your account is deleted then I am sure few ANTI LCHF folks must have complained. It has happened in the past, so nothing surprising here I guess. Some don;t want LCHF to be discussed here at all.

  • I already have. You are already there. dlife.in

    No account gets deleted there. Only Commercial spams is one thing which is not allowed, besides of course engaging in war of words which is a strict NO NO.

  • Well, the software runs all BIG BOARDS around the world. So, I don't think there's any complain on user friendly part. In fact it's a commercial software with one of the best user friendly interface.

    bigboards.org/

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  • I was on LCHF since 14 February 14. I lost 12 kgs of weight in one year. By BP came to 120/80. Then I was worried because I was loosing weight and every one was saying what happened to you are becoming very lean.I read dr.mcdoughal article on plant based diet .switched on to that as he says dairy products are killers. I changed to that had an other problem . I got hypotension .my BP came to 90/60. Now again I have changed to LCHF .

  • So,it is again proved that LCHF works!Is not it?

  • Yes it works .

  • So, how are your numbers and weight now that you are back to LCHF diet. I am not a big fan of PETA (primarily responsible for VEGAN cult movement).

    Try and up soaked peanuts, walnuts, almonds in your daily menu. If chewing becomes a problem then you can even coarsely grind overnight soaked peanuts+walnuts+almonds and add to curd+cream mix.

  • My BS 100 and ppbs 140 to 150. Little chea ting I do as I take coffe with one tspf of Honey .this is with no medicines..my bp is 110/70. And hope it come back to 120/80'again. I practice yoga sans and pranayama . Feel energetic . I took plant based diet for three months and now dropped it. I go for run and during the run I felt reeling sensation and came home and checked my bp it was 90/60. Then I continuously checked my bp it 100/60 and after yoga it came down to 90/60. I was worried. Thought over it and switched back to LCHF . I am taking nuts soaked in water overnight.

  • Anup

    i don't understand why Gillkashmirsingh's bp should fall while on plant based diet

  • Presumably because they ate less processed/high-glycaemic food.

  • Concerned

    "Presumably because they ate less processed/high-glycaemic food."

    Still why should they get hypotension ?

  • Foods that spike insulin/IGF-1 cause an increase in blood volume, plus narrowing of the arteries = increase blood pressure. 1 part carbohydrate also holds about four parts water in the body, further increasing blood volume.

  • Concerned

    Yes. That hypertension - increased bp.

    But why hypo - fall ?

  • Removal of the things that cause raised blood pressure will result in low blood pressure until the body's homoeostatic response has time to adjust.

  • Concerned

    Body doesn't take "time " to respond. It reacts quickly. There are many mechanisms to keep the bp in range.

  • So when a cheating athlete transfuses blood it is pointless? There is no gain in functional capacity because the body 'reacts quickly'? Absolute nonsense!

    Another example, when we do strength training, it takes over 24.2 hours for the body to recover and overcompensate by growing stronger. Similarly when we do aerobic training it takes over 24.2 hours after a session has completed before the cardiovascular system is able to fully recover, and only then can it improve.

    Yes, there are mechanisms to keep bp in range, but toxic levels of carbohydrate take time for the body to adjust to in an attempt to normalise.

  • Concerned

    ๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜๐Ÿ˜

    I really like people like you. I don't know what makes you angry.

    The examples you are quoting are not life threatening events with our body.

    BP, posture etc have to be corrected quickly or may be life threatening. Reactions to a pain sensations have to be quick. So strength training or aerobic exercises do not poise threat to our lives and body adjustments may take time. Your muscles can't become strong overnight but blood pressure control can't wait in a normal physiological condition.

    Drinking excessive water can take few minutes before kidneys can throw it out because excess water drinking is not a life threatening immediately but may put load on heart because of overload if K don't clear them after some time.

    In short body knows when to react and how. My dear body can't wait to respond until hypotension becomes symptomatic and may harm the body. Only if body mechanisms fail because of medicine of some disease like septicemia that the pathological fall in bp may occur.

  • Does medication undo the harm? drmalcolmkendrick.org/2012/...

  • Concerned

    Medications may or may not undo harm. Depends on the mode of action. Some may cure the diseases, some correct symptoms and some may have reasonable control over disease.

  • Concerned

    "1 part carbohydrate also holds about four parts water in the body, further increasing blood volume."

    Water trapped with carbs or any other substance does not increase blood volume.

    Insulin / igf1 is never in the list of etiology of hypertension. Insulin igf has no direct constricting effect on arteries or arterioles.

    D itself make arteries less compliant by causing wall edema.

  • Are you healthy and medication free suramo? Here is evidence of the detriment of IGF-1 on the cardiovascular system ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

    Ignoring such science leaves us susceptible to chronic ill health.

    Adding anything to the blood has to increase its volume by definition.

    The disagreements you itemised therefore don't make logical sense.

  • Concerned

    Cool down.

    No i'm not medicine free and i don't expect miracles to happen. I'm on IDM just for four months and can't push away long standing disease so easily.

    Well my recent reports a few days back show that i have been able to bring my parameters to a reasonably well under control and i have reduced my drug dose and still bs under control. Not to forget saying i have stopped statins for last four months and my lipids are well wnl. I'm trying to pin my reports here. Soon shall that be done.

    Please show me that insulin and igf1 are in the list of aetiology of hypertension in the standard medical books and i will thank you for helping me correct my ignorance.

  • I am calm and I'm not angry suramo; I'm frustrated that people choose to maintain habits that make them unwell.

    Merry Christmas!

  • Concerned

    ....Absolute nonsense!...

    These were your words.

    Well. Merry x'mas to you too sir.

    Well i have read that article on igf. I find that very hypothetical.๐Ÿ™๐Ÿ™

  • I don't understand plant based diets. Probably too much fiber and that's not good for sure. Eliminating dairy doesn't make sense.

  • Anup

    for decades we know that milk gives instant energy. If you are tired take a glass of warm milk with or without sugar you become fresh. Your tiredness gone. Also on honeymoon the boy is given a glass of warm milk, not the girl. Although she can also have one.

    That means milk has sugar which gives you instant energy. Must be high gi sugar. So only curd and or yogurt a little sour are the only dairies products should be taken IMHO.

    Butter milk is also the liquid that is left after churning out butter from curd. So it must contain lots of sugar. Tell me if i'm wrong.

    How about yogurd ? I tried homemade yogurt without sugar but i didn't like it because of its jelly like texture. So i mixed curd and yogurt to make yogurd so that we can have benefit of the microorganisms in yogurt also. As such yogurt is better than curd.

  • Whole milk is a slow release carbohydrate, that does not spike insulin.

  • Concerned

    I don't agree. Can you explain how ?

  • The evidence glycemicindex.com and

    optimisingnutrition.com/201...

    Categorising carbs as sugars or starches isn't really helpful as starch is a string of glucose molecules. Other factors such as how accessible the carbohydrate is (refer to fibre and resistant starch), the type of starch, gelatinisation, mixing with other foods (such as acid, protein or fats) can have a significant impact. Fructose for instance has a low Gi, but that is because it has to be processed by the liver; it glycosylates haemoglobin seven times as much as glucose making blood stickier.

    The amount of carbohydrate is also critically important.

    So milk isn't harmful per se; it's the processing, adding hormones or titanium dioxide for example that is.

  • Concerned

    Well everything said is right but milk is an instant source of energy because the sugar in it is easily available. Starch eaten raw has different gi than cooked starch because the bonds amongst glucose molecules become weak on cooking. This releases glucose faster.

    Milk doesn't have fibres.

    Milk -whole or skimmed is not for us. Skimmed never. A bit sour hung curd, cheese paneer etc good because sugar is removed during their making /production.

  • Hung curd for me.

    Milk is mostly for coffee or a small cup with turmeric daily.

  • I think one of the guys here has been posting too many copy paste articles and then linking wrongly to authoritynutrition.com and host of other websites but his account did not get deleted because no one usually complains -- even on COPY PASTE here aka plagiarism.

    In your case, it looks like those who flout the rules themselves must have complained. My guess is that complains were made as you are preaching LCHF diet. This is the trend here. Talk LCHF and you get on the wrong side of a group of three or four people here as they do not like anything outside of ADA/AMA/AHA's FAILED dietary theory.

    Anyways, one is allowed to post link to same site once in 10 replies/posts even as per rules. On my forum, we don't restrict anyone from posting any link to source of information which is in the context of discussion.

  • I don't see three or four of the most vocal opponents of LCHF bashing LCHF followers now. The growth of diabetics on LCHF Diet is unstoppable now as that's the only thing that really works in the long run for managing diabesity.

  • Champak 045 as per your statement u have tried below 50 gms carb When u have tried it as per your other discussion your HBA1C is stiil 6.9 since u are non veg so u may possible to carb below 50 gms for vegetarians it is difficult. Further u may know in this forum so much members were used carb below 130 gms and some of them may also up to 200-250 but they also have hba1c 6- 6.4 Even good expert member in this forum CONCERNED also states up to 140--150 gms as low carb I think if u stick on carb less than 5o gms Your HBA1C must be 5 or 5.1 Even Anup also used carb uoto 60-70 gms his HBA1C is 5.4 can u clarify in details

  • agrhar

    champak must be taking excessive amounts of proteins.

  • Anup

    "Mendosa lives on a 50-60 gm carbs/day, IIRC. Too difficult for Indians to live on that range of carbs". Indians also can live on 50-60 g carbs. What's iirc ?

  • Curds is better than milk . YOU can take up to 250 gms per day . Coffee as it is , is not bad . Three cups a day is in allowable limit.( black coffee is good for diabetics )

  • usually the curds sold in the Govt dairy farm with the top layer removed , since we don't prefer high fat products . I found out that coffee and curds both are good for diabetics . I didn't make a national survey .In my limited circle they didn't give adverse results . Especially for vegetarians curds give a feeling of fullness .

  • @Hidden

    "since we don't prefer high fat products . " we prefer high fat food.

  • When one is in low carb diet , a tea spoon sugar with little milk can be added .

  • I experienced that there are no adverse results and after having coff ee with one teaspoon sugar ,no spike in the sugar readings was observed .But I specify that is for people with low carb diet.

  • NEVER, ever. The whole idea of LCHF is to get the residual insulin in blood down. Adding sugar would beat that purpose. Once in a while for cheating, it's fine. But, as a regular habit -- NEVER.

  • the whole idea of avoiding carbs is ok to some extent , because excess carbs contribute to the problem . But the high fat diet definiitly could result in arteriosclerosis or atherosclerosis . That takes place slowly in course of time and not overnight . Why this factor is overlooked by the advocates of lchf diet . A record of 5 or 6 years is not sufficient to verify . Many times we see scientific research going back on its theories especially in the field of health . At least we can depend on the theories of Ayurveda because it had had been in practice for thousands of years.The root cause of all health problems is fast food & polluted food . polluted air and polluted water . If care is taken in these things all the health problems would vanish overnight.Even milk is not good now a days because the animals are given harmones for better yield.

  • There's no proof that Low Carb (20% CARBS) High Fat diet results in CVD/CHD. This lie has been systematically spread since Ancel Keys days. The whole CVD/CHD problem has ballooned after LOW FAT nonsense.

    If we cut carbs, we have to UP FAT because diabetics cannot go overboard on proteins. So, merely cutting down carbs won't help -- it has to be replaced by another source of energy.

  • @Hidden

    " . But the high fat diet definiitly could result in arteriosclerosis or atherosclerosis . That takes place slowly in course of time and not overnight ."

    I have been on grain free diet and taking co, evoo and ghee liberally for last 4 months. My lipid profile on 16/12/16 reads very good . also i'm not taking statins for 4 months.

    Total lipids 561

    tc 152

    tg 105

    ldl 80

    hdl 44

    lpa1 1.01

    lpb 1.13

    lpa 17.9

    Crp .03

    Now tell me as per present knowledge what are my chances of getting cvd chd.

    "At least we can depend on the theories of Ayurveda because it had had been in practice for thousands of years.The root cause of all health problems is fast food & polluted food . polluted air and polluted water . If care is taken in these things all the health problems would vanish overnight." Incidence of t2d is high and more and more people are becoming D even in the western and european countries where there is very little pollution and food is good.

  • Milk is definitely good for everyone if the person is not allergic to milk.

    One should take full fat milk.

    All milk products can be taken by a diabetic.

    Quantity of milk and its products will depend on individual.

  • shrisamarth

    A little sour hung curd or yogurt without sugar is the best. Whole milk - full fat or skimmed - should be avoided. Both milk contain almost same amount of milk sugar.

  • people who are pure vegetarians get Vitamin B12 only through the milk and milk products .Absence of B12 could lead to diabetic neuritis in some cases .

  • @Hidden

    Yes. There are certain undesired side effects of low carb diet. Anemia and b12 deficiency. But it's better to control D by diet and the anemia and b12 deficiencies by medicines. For anemia one can take 3-5 dates and figs daily.

  • Avoiding animal products results in B12 deficiency, and anaemia results from hormonal miscommunication/imbalance, neither of which are inevitable from safely controlling carbohydrate intake.

  • As I already mentioned, strange things happen with followers and preachers of LCHF diet. In fact, I cannot find any posts with user MyDBGone. This means that the account is deleted, complete with all posts.

  • THE ANSWERS ALSO LEAD TO QUESTIONS- LCHF

    It is my 2nd year with LCHF.

    My readings; sugar, blood pressure, loss of excessive weight etc are very satisfactory. Being a Type 2 since Year 2000 I am now on half the dosage of the medication I used to and I am confident I will be able to go further down as time passes.

    .

    The new problem, however, I now face is the loss of mussels in areas like arms, thigh ect forcing me to refrain from stain exercises. Is it because of my strict avoidance of crabs from usual rice/ wheat diets I used to?

  • Up the proteins to 0.8gm/Kg weight if KFT parameters are all normal.

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