I have been on the Carnivore Diet for 3 months or so, as part of my quest to ameliorate as much of my Young Onset Parkinsons Disease symptoms as possible. I'll sum it up a bit for you.
1. The diet consists of animal products and ideally no plant products. I ate mostly beef, eggs and butter, but also some pork, seafood, poultry and cheese. Water and unflavored seltzer only. At first I eliminated coffee, but eventually worked a small amount back in, with heavy cream. I also worked in a pint of Rebel full fat ice cream per week, which is sweetened with Stevia. So to be honest, I wasnt 100% perfectly compliant. The only seasoning allowed is salt. I went with Himalayan Pink salt when Celtic Sea salt was no longer available to me. I initially stopped all supplements, including Thiamine HCl, Lithium Orotate and Magnesium (I soon added Mg back in). I did take a daily eye vitamin because I have problems driving at night.
2. I completely cheated on Christmas Day, New Years Day and Fat Tuesday (Mardi Gras). Not too bad.
3. The main trouble I ran into was getting the proper electrolyte balance. I used salt, Magnesium supplements and cream of tartar for potassium. Earlier in the experiment I had severe body aches, which is what led me to seek electroytic support, and this resolved the problem. But further down the line, whereas my tremor symptoms were initially highly improved, ultimately, the tremors came back worse than when I started. I had a really bad week of tremors and finally decided to eat some fruit, bone broth, honey and coconut water and my tremor situation improved immediately and to a high degree. I want to add that I lost almost 10% of my body weight in fat and water. Other benefits were less fatigue, less sleep required, better mental alertness, reduced bleeding of the gums after brushing, clear complexion, no gas or bloating and easy recovery from workouts.
4. As my research has been ongoing, I found that 2 of my gurus, YouTuber nutritionist Lillie Kane and Dr Paul Saladino, have both been adding fruit to their carnivore diet routine, and on a daily basis. This conflicts with people like carnivore diet advocate Mahaila Peterson, who solved 100% of her horrible autoimmune diseases, and there were many, by eating the most extreme version of carnivore, the Lion Diet. This is only Beef, butter and salt, no exceptions.
So to sum it up, I cannot recommend this way of eating for management of Parkinsons disease symptoms, mainly because it is to difficult to get the electrolyte balance to be stable and it is very impractical to stick to. That being said, I will continue to do it myself, focusing on beef, butter, eggs and salt and adding a small amount of fruit daily. Perhaps a strawberry, a grape or a small banana, a tsp of unfiltered honey or a sip of coconut water. I plan on keeping the carbohydrates under 18 grams per day. For the most part, I do enjoy Carnivore and I dont mind the challenges of inconvenience and temptation. Its just the dang electrolyte imbalance problems that get me. There are electrolyte supplements available on the market, but they contain artificial sweeteners and flavorings that I prefer to avoid. It may be a trade off that I have to consider, I guess.
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bassofspades
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I was hoping somebody might be able to check in about this diet.
Is there any chance you were taking some treatments for your symptoms and stopping those coincided with taking on the diet? As in any potential confounding variables?
I wonder if anybody else is on one of the group of so-called keto diets?
I've been on a pretty strict keto diet since I was diagnosed in 2015. That is, I stay under about 30g of carbs a day, and I get those carbs (and electrolytes) from green vegetables, nuts and occasional berries. I NEVER eat sugar, or any substitute like honey. I DO use stevia and splenda and monkfruit etc. I just don't worry about that, but after all this time I don't have much of a sweet tooth!
Also, as more and more "keto" products are available, the diet gets easier. I buy zero carb keto bread which makes a pretty decent peanut butter sandwich (and is basically made from gluten and sawdust :o)
Hmmm. Well, I've progressed quite slowly, I guess. Since 2015--My symptoms are still one-sided. (I just started C/L this past autumn, and I only take one (25/100) a day when I'm off to exercise class, or dinner w/strangers, etc. I don't particularly need it hanging around the house. BUT...
How can I tell that it's the diet and not just me? That's the problem with a research study of 1. Also, as I said, I exercise, plus I've tried different supplements, so who knows?
BTW, I think the other problem with stuff like keto diets is that they don't necessarily change symptoms on a day-to-day basis...they (maybe) affect overall progression. That's hard to measure, as you are watching for the lack of something.
Thanks, friend! Hope making myself into a guinea pig helps! Whats the worst that can happen? I already have Parkinsons Disease, not much to lose, here.
I have been on keto/OMAD (one-meal-a-day at dinner time) since 2019. I eat many versions of keto - Mediterranean, Italian, Thai, Mexican, etc with eggs and salad in plenty of olive oil - most recipes from Dr Matthew CL Phillips’ metabolic therapy plan used in his Parkinson’s/Alzheimer’s/Cancer(Glioblastoma) randomized control trials/studies.
I cannot handle cream/cheese or any dairy for that matter. If I do eat dairy, the next day my mucuna may not work so I don’t take a chance. No big fruits either - one or two strawberries or a few black berries/raspberries/blueberries in salad.
Electrolyte imbalance - I take a quarter tsp of Himalayan salt in about 2 cups of water with Magtein and Magnesium glycinate in the morning and early afternoon. I get muscle cramps otherwise. I take some coconut water (natural potassium) kefir at dinner time.
I would highly recommend keto - carnivore or omnivore or vegetarian keto to anyone who wants to slow or stop the progression or hopefully reverse PD. Combined with Fasting (intermittent or prolonged) it is even more powerful. Ketones are alternate and better fuel than glucose for cells. Check out Stephen Cunnane’s research - while glucose needs to be pulled into the cell, ketones get pushed into the cell - great news for us with ‘brain insulin resistance’.
Best.
Dr Matthew Phillips’ presentations on his website:
Dr Cunnane’s presentation: (for research info - I personally do not use MCT oil or other ketone supplements - better to get ketones up with fasting or keto diet)
I appreciate your input! Keto paleo is my personal favorite way of eating. I have 2 thoughts, though. Copious amounts of olive oil may not be as healthy as previously suggested. I’m hearing a lot lately that large amounts of seed oils and vegetable oils including olive oil are the real cause of diabetes. The amount of olives or sunflower seeds or corn required to make x amount of oil is the equivalent of eating, like, a bushel of said oil source and bodies respond angrily to it. Not sure if that is proven or not and can’t say exactly what YouTube videos I heard about that from, but stay tuned, I’m sure you’ll be hearing about it soon.
Omad is great but since I have been eating carnivore, I try to eat at least 220 grams of protein per day, and that’s a lot for one meal! Also, if you can’t keep your mind busy, I find myself obsessing over food when I’m doing omad.
Full disclosure, I don’t know shht from shinola about jack diddly squat, so don’t take my word for it!
I commend you on the valiant effort you made, bassofspades . It takes a lot of time and courage to attempt such self experiments and you are to be commended. I am not sure if I could try something so bold.
Hi, I admire your totality of committment (Christmas excepted - me too!). I'm curious what you make of Dr Laurie Mishley's surveys that consistently show that meat eaters do worse? And there was some research to back this up, to do with consumption of anything with an exoskeleton. I'm curious why meat based and keto diets are so popular with PD people?
i take dr miscleys research with a grain of salt. From what I understand it’s based on surveys. Im not sure if this is very scientific or how controlled the environment is. I'm more interested in her research on lithium orotate.
What is the perfect diet? It really depends on the individual. There is no way one diet fits all. Meat based diets are popular because they eliminate inflammatory foods, they facilitate ketosis and autophagy, and provide protein for growth, recovery and repair.
The good thing about research is that you can find studies that show whatever outcome you like to be the result. Have you seen the study that shows oreo cookies lower cholesterol?
The point of me trying carnivore diet is that I keep my mind open and try everything reasonable to try to keep my disease progression and symptoms to a minimum.
Thanks ... Yes, research is a contradictory minefield, especially with some being funded by vested interests. I find it all very confusing. Still, maybe the research showing that meat isn't pro inflammatory will help me feel less guilty next time my housemate cooks sausages and I can't resist!
Think about back in the days when you were healthy and you could eat whatever you wanted and it didn't seem to affect your health. That's where these guys are at. We have Parkinson's. We're more sensitive than they are to little things like this.
I know, right?!! They write a book and swear by all of their research and then we buy it, read it, absorb it and they decide to change their minds - based on how THEY feel, not more research, though! @#$%^&* !!!!
So, it seems you never actually tried the lion diet for any extended time. 🤷🏼 But you have decided it’s not going to work for you without really giving it a good go? Reason I’m asking is because I just read about a middle aged woman who eliminated her Parkinson’s symptoms with the lion diet. Look up Dr. Anthony Chafee on YouTube. Good luck.
I love the lion diet, and I have done it to the best of my discipline. As far as the effect it's had on Parkinson's, for me, it makes the good days great and the bad days worse. I have had moments where I have felt amazing and days where I never felt worse. Remember that every case of Parkinson's is unique and not even close to one size fits all. You hear about cases that were cured permanently and with w dollop of coconut oil or fast walking or nicotine or acupuncture or hypnosis or prayer or probiotics and on and on. The lion diet is the ultimate elimination diet, which means if it cured you of anything, then the cause was something that you removed from your diet. Whether it was an allergen, or gluten or an irritant, or a toxin, pesticide, GMO, etc. I do what I do because I like having energy, mental clarity and it keeps the weight off. And I enjoy steak, butter, eggs and salt!
Wife and I eat 2 meals a day, usually 10am and 6pm. Usually beef and eggs first and steak or burgers for dinner. And butter with both.
As far as improvements, the weight loss was quick for me and also a rapid improvement in digestion over a few weeks. I then realized that fiber may have been my enemy since my digestive system became calm, quiet, and normal. But the benefits kept adding up over months. Within a few months regular aches and pains went away, dentist said my periodontal disease was gone, much more tolerance to sun exposure(no sunscreen, no burn, nice tan), feeling more limber all over and physically capable. Greater heat tolerance allowing me to do all my own yard work and enjoy it. No soreness after said work or after resistance workouts. We have been carnivores for 5 years now. We are both 68 and off all meds and feeling a bit guilty about our good health while so many peers are suffering with ill health. We’ve both learned that it’s hard for people to believe how impactful diet can be. They just keep going to their doctors and taking the meds and aging rapidly 🤷🏼. We often hear “it’s genetic”. We know better because all 4 of our parents died young. Type 2 diabetes, clogged arteries, cancers took them all. My wife’s parents were both gone before age sixty. My dad made it to 81, but the type 2 diabetes and clogged carotids led to strokes and other issues. His last 20 years were not pleasant. It was a couple of years after dad died that my doctor told me my labs showed pre-diabetes. Being a nerd I did a deep dive into nutrition research and was lucky to discover the ancestral health community via Mark Sisson and his book The Primal Blueprint. It was 2010 and I was age 54, and 260 lbs. We did great with the low carb lifestyle with many improvements in health which eventually got us to carnivore 5 years ago which brought even better health as described above.
You’re right. I apologize for my unwarranted insight. I didn’t realize this was all about Parkinson’s and I now totally respect bassofspades health journey and decisions. My bad!
I don't recommend it for a few reasons. It's so restrictive that it's hard for people to stick to. It's inconvenient. It requires you to pay close attention to your electrolyte balance. Failure to maintain a proper balance could be unpleasant or worse! It's controversial, so people are going to discourage you, and you have to really educate yourself so you can explain to people the rationale. Carnivore is keto, but keto is not Carnivore. Carnivore is a strict elimination diet. Pretty much zero carbs. If you're consuming 50g of carbs per day, you are probably not doing Carnivore. Im glad you feel better though! You probably feel better because you eliminated a lot of bread and inflammatory food.
If anyone wants to try carnivore, that's great! But beware, it's not easy.
As mentioned im aiming at. Keto but just doing low carb (basically meat veg, nuts, limited fruit) keeping to less than 50g a day. Basically trying a diabetic reversal diet.
Followed Strict Lauries mischleys diet for a year which helped but still progressed
Switched to Low carb/keto - much better after 2 months - All symptoms except tremors dropped
Lean meat seems ok so reintroduced
Had Frozen shoulder - now healed on lc (lc= low carb)
Stiff toe - improved on lc
Frequently urinating - reduced on lc
Frequently waking in sleep, early waking like diabetes - reduced on lc, massive sleep improvement
Diahrea w high sugar -gone on lc, normal regular poo!
Reduce arm swing - improved on lc
Nausea/brain fog - gone w lc
My other symptoms
Tremors still there and spread but less intense
Stooping hard to correct, trying
Microgaphy still there but can write slowly
Slight Balance issues on bike but ok
Tiredness- could be low carb
im having such a good response I intend to continue for quite a while. Im virtually convinced sugars and carbs plays a role disbalancing neurotransmitter chemistry leading to symptoms…
Use cronometer to track your food and nutrition. Im able to keep below 50g net carbs using it, hit 170g fats and 170g protein, all targets score around 90% hitting over 2k calories a day. Just stay away from all sugars/carbs, refined seed oils, grains, starchy veggies, alcohol. My carbs come from non starchy veggies, nuts/seeds and a little fruit.
hows it going now bass? I now got my carbs down to 24.3g av per day in the last 4 weeks. Everything is feeling better daily except the damn tremors. Watching too many chaffee, berry and zerocarb videos that are convincing me carnivore is healing for all deseases. Getting closer to making the switch to 100% carnivore but it would be great to hear of some success stories…
That's great! Im celebrating 10 months as a carnivore and I am enjoying good results across the board. Not perfect but certainly evident that it has been beneficial. Down 30 lbs, off all blood pressure meds, sleep apnea improved, circulation improved, skin improved. As for symptoms of parkinson's, fatigue greatly improved, cognition improved, tremors and bradykinesia are about the same. Sometimes really good, sometimes really bad. Depends on stress level and how tired I am from hour to hour.
I like the diet and will continue to stick with it as best as I can. Typically I keep carbs as low as I can, the only carbs I get are in plain Greek yogurt which I mix with protein powder after workouts. I try to stay under 18g a day. Thanks for keeping us posted!
Thanks for your inquiry. Actually I'm glad you asked because I think I figured something out. I, too, was doing very well in all areas except the tremors but I have the solution. You need better electrolyte support. And not from artificially sweetened drink mix packets. After a bad day of tremors, I found that if I ate a banana, some berries, a small orange or some grapes, my tremors dramatically reduced. Some carnivore diet experts, like Paul Saladino and Lily Kane, advocate for adding a small amount of fruit daily. So I have modified my diet to include a small amount of fruit daily as well and I find that it helps me a great deal. A typical day for me is:
3 tbs plain full fat organic Greek yogurt with 5g creatine and a scoop of protein powder added in.
3 eggs with 1/2 cup cheese fried in salted Irish butter.
At least 1lb of beef, preferably organic and grass fed.
1 small organic gala apple and about 5 organic seedless grapes, or a small orange or a small banana.
At least 64 oz water with Himalayan or sea salt added. Load up on extra salt on the eggs and beef as well.
I also take a magnesium supplement and potassium supplements, and some lugols iodine solution applied to my skin.
thanks for this. I’ve been doing so well on mostly meat and a little green veg the idea of adding sugary fruit goes against my thinking… still ill try it a little. I too take only a multivitamin and magnesium supplement daily.
Green vegetable is something you want to avoid, mainly because of the oxalate content. And be sure your multivitamin doesn't contain B6 if you are on carbodopa type medications because you will counteract the medication and less levadopa will become available to the brain, increasing tremors. Consider increasing potassium with supplements or adding cream of tartar to your water. Iodine is such an important dopamine transporter that it is actually used in DATscans to diagnose Parkinson's. DAT stands for DopAmine Transport and to perform the test they inject you with a radioactive isotope of iodine and trace it with a nuclear medicine scanner. As centuries of farming has depleted the soil of iodine, most people are silently suffering from deficiency.
I know that one of the principles of carnivore is to avoid sugar but in my experience, I do better with just a small amount of fruit daily and it actually resulted in resuming of weight loss after a period of stalled weight loss after several months of meat only.
You can give it a try. I think you're going to see results within a few hours! If not then you can go back to no fruit and seek another solution.
I was wondering what your thoughts are on dairy and Parkinson? I’ve added in high fat cream, butter and hard cheese but the research on Parkinson and dairy makes me feel uneasy.
Not all dairy is contraindicated. Just the stuff that has lactose in it. Heavy cream, butter, whey protein powder and many types of cheese are lactose free or close to it. Greek yogurt has about less than 1 gram of lactose per ounce. Technically, eggs are considered dairy and theyre really good for you. Plant based milk products, like soy milk, almond milk, etc, and margarine, spreadable butter (which contains canola oil), are horrible for you. This is just my opinion, and I already know that lots of dairy nazis will disagree with me. Also, lots of vegetarians disagree with me. I dont care. They can eat whatever they want, be happy. Just make sure whatever scientific studies available are truthful and unbiased. Everybody has a hidden agenda and conflict of interest in the FDA.
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Has your tremor resolved, stopped on its own?
