Have any of you been following Dr Laurie Mischley's diet recommendations, which include as the number 1 thing to do, to eliminate dairy? Has this helped you?
I am wondering if it's not the dairy itself but what the cows are fed, other practices and how the milk is processed in conventional dairy that's the culprit vs the actual dairy? Meaning the unnatural diet, such as grains instead of grass, and the feed being sprayed with pesticides, desiccants, etc., besides being GMO, the pasteurization plus other unhealthy practices used in conventionally raised cows.
I don't know if this has been studied, but I also wonder if we consumed raw dairy from cows fed only grass, organic and non-gmo, not given antibiotics, etc., etc., would benefit our health instead of sabotage it? (I'm not looking for arguments about humans consuming another species milk past weaning.)
Anyone have any experience trying this?
Also, the protein issue with PD. Mischley recommends basically a vegan diet, with sustainable or wild caught fish as the only flesh protein, and no chicken but some eggs are ok. I know that protein can interfere with C/L absorption as they compete for receptor sites, but I also wonder about the integrity of the protein as above with the dairy? Is it the protein itself causing problems (not just interference with C/L) or is it the protein sourced from conventional practices, feed and processing that's causing the problems?
Anyone have experience with this also?
Thanks for any feedback you are willing to share!
Victoria
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I recommend learning the difference between A1 and A2 cows. And the higher the fat content the less inflammatory proteins the dairy has. Last I looked she makes no distinction between fat content, type of dairy protein or sugar content. Goat and sheep products are less inflammatory.
I don’t presently have links to share but lots of info online about this. Dr. Mark Hyman is a source.
Please note, I’m rather new to learning any of this and unqualified to give advice.
It is definitely not the only issue. Casein. Gluten bc it is different than it used to be is a more frequent problem causing auto immune response than dairy. The link above featuring a Harvard educated doctor who has been a researcher at Mass General is a good source to explain this.
Sugars. You got it. And saturated fats. Even worse when both are hanging around. What you want are cis-fats, saturated and trans fats are just too hard on the system to break down and that is what leads to inflammation and eventually blood vessel inflammation (along with the added effect of excessive low density lipoproteins).
But coconut oil is saturated and it’s anti inflammatory and MCT oil is even better for fighting inflammation. to blame saturated fats is too broad a category I think? Can you provided links to current information saying ? Regarding trans fats, agreed. I actually think they are worse than any other dietary ingredient.
You are correct. Saturated fats in moderation are generally okay. Carbohydrates, especially simple sugars in excess are adverse for cardiovascular health.
Cardiovascular Disease and total mortality versus lipid and carbohydrate consumption
Bc simple Carbs quickly convert to sugar and can then affect the insulin levels to a greater degree than naturally occurring sugars, (wild blueberries for example) stating that sugar is the culprit can be misleading. Added sugars and simple carbs are partially to blame with our gut and brain issues but naturally occurring sugars not necessarily as they are found often accompanying nutrients we really need. Berries are an example.
But please, I look forward to links of your research and current information to learn from especially as you are the professional and I’m as you have told me, am afflicted with the Dunning Kruger affect and am so dumb I’m unaware of my dumbness.
If I am wrong then please I do hope you will share resources and research that steers me in the right direction.
(Btw your opinion of me may be comical but it’s not relevant or interesting.)
Not sure about the aspects you mention. There is some evidence that suggests stabilizers and emulsifiers (that are often used in dairy to give a creamy mouth feel) has inflammatory effect on the gut, which in turn changes the gut microbiome and affects gut-brain axis. Here is one such paper microbiomejournal.biomedcen...
Mischley’s studies are based on identifying correlation between diet/lifestyle and progression. As of yet, this means that the dairy recommendation is based on the dairy that most people eat. So it would be conventional, processed dairy.
She is doing ongoing larger correlative studies and I think there are now questions asking if food is organic, etc.
Makes a difference more than you know (though not the gmo part). Grass fed is far different than grain fed. Good catch.
But what makes a bigger difference is whether or not you are eating sugar. Sugars are the inflammatory factor, and the more grain you have the more intensified the caloric values of the sugars. That's why grass is superior to grain. Part of the problem is that the more sugars involved, the more the animal turns to marbling and that becomes an excess in itself. Excess sugar is stored as fat, which renders the meat that much more vulnerable to stimulating inflammation. The core link is sugars that are intense in grains because of the very high sugar and starch content, you're talking about carbohydrates here, and the animal is going to take excess nutrient density be a sugar and turn it into fat and excess marbling, and Choline based sterols (alcohols). It's not so much the proteins that are the problem, and the concern about GMO is a red herring boogeyman.
However, it really is better to lean toward vegetarianism, at least as far as red meats anyway (fish, birds, and eggs are just fine), because sialic acid does matter too: pnas.org/doi/10.1073/pnas.1...
Same principle, you want grass-fed. And you are always looking out to favor of cis-fats over trans-fats, and avoiding saturated in favor of anything else besides saturated. The basic principle in each is that catabolysis requires more energy and resources and is more strenuous on your metabolic system when you are trying to break down fats, fatty acids, and proteins when sugar is around, when you're having to break down trans fats and saturated fats. The more sugar and alcohol and trans fats are involved, as opposed to less sugars and more cis-fats and less-saturated-fats ( those are the ones you want) It's just more work then fatty acids that have their chains on the same side of the molecule's backbone... More wear and tear as it were to break them down. Over a lifetime this means more energy and resources used, meaning more inflammation almost all cell structures, because it takes more energy and materials, and creates more waste that has to be dissolved and transported out, just more metabolic load, to break them down and that's the same as "wear and tear" and on the "motor" and " lines and pipes and wires," to use an automotive metaphor. Or to use the dishwashing metaphor, the dirtier and greasier your residues, the more detergents you need to clean them out and unclog things. Trans and saturated are like dirty fuel, compared to clean burning fuel. More carbon buildup, more incompletely burned fuel, more residues, that have to be cleared out. Like soot is in your lungs. Carbon carbon carbon in each case, unused fuel residues or residues left over from combustion (i.e., producing energy from fuel). It's really all the same principle, you're talking about the energy it takes to break the carbon bonds and process them and clean up after them. Diesel is dirty dirty cruddy dirty fuel, compared to gasoline (and that's all about combusting carbon as well almost literally the same kind of thing... That's about carbon too). Sure you can use it but it tends to foul things and so you have to do more cleaning, that's just dirty, and has to be cleaned up, just like coal is much more dirty than natural gas.
Thanks so that’s why animal fats and butter and are bad and olive oil is good? What do you think of other seed oils? They’re not saturated but not good either? Eg canola?
Pretty much. You can get saturated fats in vegetable oils though so you still want to check for oils that are less than saturated, what you want are mono- and polyunsaturated, and finally oils that are lower in omega-6, and instead are higher in omega-3...as some fish oils are, and flax seed, etc. You have to check each one though. But the really main thing is that even saturated oils are better when sugar in your diet is reduced...too much sugars make everything worse, and with less sugars even saturated oils are not nearly as troublesome. Think of excess sugars, PARTICULARLY refined sugars, as "souring" the milk.
“it really is better to lean toward vegetarianism, at least as far as red meats anyway (fish, birds, and eggs are just fine),”
Grass fed better, I agree but no red meat or little red meat? What about B12?
I hate eating meat but I’m concerned it’s best I do.
“Liver and kidneys. Organ meats are incredibly rich in B12, but also contain a large amount of cholesterol. For this reason, Taylor advises people who include organ meat in their diet to do so in moderation.”
Cleveland Clinic (I don’t agree with much in the article do maybe they are wrong regarding liver too.)
And autoimmune responses to eggs are common but not so with red meat.
So eggs might be better but not always.
This conversation is an example of how one protocol is not possible because we and our guts are all so different. It is so nuanced and variable making misinformation the norm.
I need a little help with something...you keep saying how you know so little, which would thus mean that whether you agree with one thing this or that, is irrelevant, since you keep insisting how you actually know so little...but then right away you definitely say, with declarative sentences ending in a period, full stop, in finality, as if you're the final authority. But it seems to me you can't have it both ways, either you are expert enough to put a definitive period behind your assertions so that your opinion is trustworthy for people to take at face value, or you have to follow though with your insistence on being ignorant, in which case your job is to ask questions, rather than definitively answer them. Please, these are opposites. So which is it? Very confused, please clarify, which opposite side are we supposed to believe? Is this just a style thing?
Adding to say, no, not a style thing. It’s a confidence issue and fear of misguiding someone bc I am so new at this and am shocked when I see that some people with many years of research and even medical degrees are giving incorrect info.
Many of my comments contain questions. I do make the statement(s) of what I know from reading , often direct quotes, but then I do have concerns that I might have misunderstood the information because I am new to learning about the brain so I disclose that I might be wrong. I do not want to risk giving someone wrong information thus the caveat. I’m trying to be really cautious. . I also usually provide links to what I have stated. You do the opposite. Asserting things backed up with no links and unwavering confidence even when I respond with links to reputable sources that state the opposite of what you have stated. Examples are above in this thread.
It is an over simplification to say that saturated fats are all bad as elaborated upon with link above.
And it is an over simplification to say that “eggs are not a problem” when they are one of the more common autoimmune triggers. Again, I responded with a link.
And I responded regarding red meat. I could have responded much more but did not invest more time on that. Med meat , the right red meat in limited amount can be highly beneficial for many people.
I do not want to respond to you but I hate to see misinformation being spread so I’m doing it for other readers, not you.
I would rather error on the side of caution with reminding people that I am new at this than asserting things like you do with no links to info and not responding to the actual subject when you do respond.
That is not credible.
I actually do know very little. So why am I able to see you are frequently incorrect is not just a reflection of my knowledge but yours as well.
Also Marion, you have insulted my intelligence repeatedly, just Thursday saying I exemplify the Dunning Krueger effect so my response is to increase the frequency of my explaining that I might be wrong. You even hilariously quoted the Bible when admonishing me. “Forgive them for they know not what they do.” You we’re feeling crucified I guess Marion because I asked for references or links, when you were giving bad recommendations.
Which you have still refused to address and only responded with personal attacks.
You bet you, it makes a HUGE difference! Grass fed meat and grass whole milk are what we eat/drink although hubby uses either organic almond or coconut milk with his keto breakfast. I use organic, grass milk in my grain-free, organic cereal.
PwP need animal protein for maintaining lean muscles.
I don't think I have the answer you're looking for but...
I've been vegan (no dairy) for 35 years. Was diagnosed with PD in 2013 and am not on meds. I have virtually no tremor but the disease is progressive and I have multiple NMS and serious gait and balance issues and brady kinesia. That said, my progression has been slow and my symptoms manageable.
I attribute slow progression to my diet and life style. Whether that would be the same for free range / organic meat and dairy, I can't say.
I take a half dose of a multi-vit/min supplement with B-12 in it. And sporadically take methyl-cobalamin... have never tested low for B-12. Good idea to track it with tests even if you're an omnivore! It tends to be more difficult to absorb as we age.
Stanford study link below. I was vegetarian and very close to vegan for almost 15 years. My heart still wants to be but after much reading and learning and trial I have concluded that it’s not right for me.
This is an example of why I have dairy in the form of sheep and goat yogurt.
Did you really follow Mischleys diet? When i eat fried food or very high sugars my symptoms go nuts and these would be allowed on a vegan diet. Im wondering if its more to control calorie intake and not hive very high processes foods that spike blood levels. I’ve been following Mischleys diet and also reduced sugar for 4 months with remarkable success. Id say 80% symptom reduction.
I do protein (eggs and meat, reduced chicken but not none) and veggies and fruit, I've dropped as much processed food as possible. I have a lot of protein however it might need timing some days and others I don't need first dose of CD/LD until after lunch My daily breakfast generally, if im working from home consists of 4-5 eggs with some form of meat/sausage In an omelette, the egg I believe after raw liver is the best most bioready form of protein and I find even 4-5 eggs after a few hours generally kicks in very well.
I actually am starting to wonder if the carnivore diet would help someone with PD..... I'm concentrating on working on my gut as I personally believe that, considering that (if I have researched this properly) more dopamine is actually formed in the gut, hence the protein CD/LD issue. I'm having success I feel from going down this route
Thanks Kia, I'll be dropping those suckas Instantly.... I should have thought deeper about that too. Thanks for the assistance, it seems that the cross off list grows daily
The material on atherosclerosis resonates with me because I had 100% obstruction of the LAD (lateral anterior descending) arterial coronary branch. Called The Widow-maker by two nurses and one doctor. I never had hypertension. In fact because of PD I had low blood pressure for years. Perhaps that was a prodromal sign of PD. The doctors recommended a vegan diet after I had a stent put in. The article mentioned using the BMI as a marker for cardiac disease. Since being on the vegan diet the past two years I've put on a lot of weight. I'd like to blame it on the medications I take for PD but can't get the doctors to agree.
I'm a patient of Mischley's for the past 3 years, (PD Dx ~4 yrs ago) and have followed her diet fairly rigourously (with some flexibility) and have been especially dairy free since I learned of it from her and did some of my own research. I can't remember where I saw it, but there was some clinical data that indicated that animal proteins are one of the causes of alpha-synuclein, which is thought to be the primary culprit in clogging the dopamine receptors. So whether it's meat or dairy, animal proteins are not good for us with PD. I do A LOT of other things to combat progression, and thankfully I improved initially in the first year after I saw Mischley and have not progressed in the last 3 years (based on her ProPD tracker that I do 3x/yr that tracks 40+ symptoms). I follow the diet, take approx. 8 supplements she Rx's based on blood and hair analysis, exercise as hard as I can 4 days/week, meditate, and generally stay social and active (and I'm still working full time). Mid 50's, male. Happy to answer questions if you have any. Hope that helps.
You are an uplifting and motivating example. So you haven’t progressed in 3 years?
I haven’t in 1 1/2 years. Hoping to keep the streak going!
Because of your comment I found this.
“ Here we review the possibility that α-synuclein aggregation could be seeded via the ingestion of a prion-like α-synuclein species contained within food products originating from vertebrates. “
Glad to be motivating. It requires a fair amount of discipline and commitment to do what I'm doing, but the evidence is pretty compelling, for me at least. Here is what I'm doing (roughly):
Exercise 4+ days a week:
my philosophy is to always try and break a sweat and get my heart rate up, and often go as hard as I can. I sometimes literally imagine the harmful alpha-synuclein being flushed out of my body when I'm running, sweating and breathing hard.
(1-2x)HIIT hike/jog up and down hills for 60-90 mins.
(1-2x)Strength and core and posture training with weights or just body weight. Not quite full HIIT, but I keep moving quickly between stations and definitely break a sweat.
(0-1x)Walk to the grocery store 45 mins round trip, and carry grocery bags back (one on each arm) for strength training and endurance.
(0-1x)Shoot baskets for 60 mins (former basketball player), or kick the soccer ball around, or bump the volleyball or play tennis or play ping pong or snowboard
(1x)Tai-chi for 15 mins
Work 30-40 hrs per week:
I think of my work as brain exercise, because it's challenging and engaging. I plan to work as long as possible because I think it helps me stay sharp and keeps me from declining.
almost vegan ... no dairy, no meat other than fish 1x per week, pork 1x per month, lots of fresh olive oil, lots of veggies, green tea, coffee w/ maple syrup and oat creamer (delish), try to limit sugar but I love dessert so I'm not too strict about that
Sleep:
8 hours min, sometimes only get 6-7, definitely sleep better the days I exercise
Meditation/affirmation:
most mornings lying in bed, 10 affirmations about beating PD, and 15 mins of mantra while visualizing healing throughout my body
Dopamine replacements:
1 Sinemet standard dose/1 mucuna capsule/1 citicoline, 4-5 times per day (depending on if I'm staying up late to work or hang with friends/family). This cocktail was devised by Mischley and works fabulous to keep me in peak condition. 1 sinemet extended release very low dose at bedtime to prevent leg cramping
Lastly, I see Mischley via Zoom 2-3 times per year, and do blood work and hair tests 1-2 per year to stay up to date on what supplements I need to adjust.
Hope that helps! Let me know if you have other questions.
I’m working with LKM as she’s known as well. I’m doing almost exactly the same as you but not citicholine. I have a call with her in the coming week and will ask about it. I use melatonin and cbd to sleep. I’d like to say my energy levels are good but it’s a struggle.
About 20 years ago at the age of 49, I had developed a bad case of arthritis in both hands. My hands were terribly red, swollen, and painful, and it was difficult to use them when I first woke up in the mornings. I went to my doctor, and he did tests. He said it was arthritis, there was nothing I could do to get rid of it, and I'd just have to take OTC pain meds for the rest of my life.
As I went stompin out of his office and down the hall, I said to myself "I don't accept that there is nothing I can do to get rid of this!" At that moment, I remembered a very short article I read a year previously about the difference between A1 and A2 milk and that A1 milk (which is the conventional milk sold in the U.S. where I live) might be linked to many inflammatory diseases, digestive problems, and even neurological deficits. So, I decided to go cold turkey and immediately stopped consuming all cow's milk products and even foods containing them. (I was consuming a lot of yogurt daily from A1 milk in the form of fruit juice/yogurt/nut smoothies.) In two weeks after giving up all cow's milk products, both hands were noticeably better; in two months, the redness, stiffness, swelling and pain were completely gone. I have never gone back to consuming cow's milk and the arthritis symptoms have never returned.
I started having PD symptoms about 10 years ago. I don't know of any way to find out if all the milk I consumed in my life was a factor in the PD.
There has been quite a bit of research done in the interim on A2 milk and it is beginning to be sold in the U.S.
Briefly, this is the difference be tween A1 and A2 milk: Originally, all mammals, including humans, produced A2 milk. Around 8,000 years ago, a mutation occured in Europe, leading to a new type of cow's milk called A2. While over time, the vast majority of cow's milk in the western world transitioned to mostly A1 milk. The only difference between the two milks is a single amino acid, but that one, unique amino acid in A1 milk seems to be very hard for many people to digest. (I took the above information from an excellent book entitled The End of Alzheimer's Program: the First Protocol to Enhance Cognition and Reverse Decline at Any Age, by Dale E. Bredesen, MD. [the 2020 version], pp 173 - 176. The book has an excellent, short, 4 page discussion on A1 vs A2 milk.)
I would like to go back to eating yogurt because some very convincing research strongly suggests that eating yogurt daily significantly reduces the risk of osteoporosis.
Also, I think I'm both protein and B12 deficient due to not eating much protein because it interferes with the carbidopa/levodopa. I haven't found any company that makes and sells A2 yogurt in the U. S., so I'll have to make my own. And of course, I'll be looking for clean A2 milk that is from organic, grass fed cows.
Excellent info and testimony that benefits this forum! I live in NC. We buy A2 grass fed yogurt at Whole Foods. I only have the goat and sheep in limited quantities.
I am into ducks. Just had 15 beautiful muskovies hatch. We had to males that began to fight and we ate one. It was the best meat I ever had in my life! Much better than cow or chicken! Sandra
I will let you know about raw dairy effects on PD. We just got a milk goat, and the milk is so wonderful warm and fresh. Also making farmer cheese with it, pudding, etc. I have not used cow milk from the store in a long time, just almond milk boughton or make my own.....so I should be a good judge of reactions, changes in dopamine, and symptoms. I only use fava bean and tincture for my symptoms and that could still be much different for those using sinemet or other pharmaceuticals. Will let everyone know my personal reactions in a few weeks of drinking and using raw goat milk. Sandra
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