Lymphatic Drainage

[Denisguay]

Has anyone heard of or tried lymphatic drainage and whether it could be useful in CLL to eliminate or accelerate the elimination of toxins? Thx. Danny.

[AussieNeil Partner Administrator]

Looking online, there's a lot of pseudoscience espousing and selling services and products to aid with lymphatic drainage. However, unless you have lymphedema, your lymphatic system naturally drains provided you exercise sufficiently and don't wear constrictive clothing. Per this article ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/books/NBK5... there's both primary (inherited) and secondary lymphedema. With respect to secondary lymphedema, "While the most common cause of lymphedema worldwide is filariasis caused by infection by Wuchereria bancrofti, in developed countries, most secondary lymphedema cases are due to malignancy or related to the treatment of malignancy. This includes surgical excision of lymph nodes, local radiation treatment, or medical therapy. Breast cancer is the most common cancer associated with secondary lymphedema in developed countries."

This What are the benefits? excerpt from a longer article How to perform a lymphatic drainage massage medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

summarises the situation, in my opinion. With my emphasis;

The lymphatic system plays a key role in the body’s immune defenses. Lymphatic fluid flows through lymph vessels, which connect lymph nodes. As it passes through the lymph nodes, white blood cells trap and destroy harmful particles, such as bacteria.

Like blood in the circulatory system, lymphatic fluid is always moving. If it stops, swelling can occur due to fluid build-ups, often in the arms or legs. Health experts call this lymphedema.

Lymphatic massage usually forms part of a treatment program that health experts call decongestive lymphatic therapy (DLT). This treatment plan may also include skin care, exercise, and compression garments.

Together, these can improve circulation throughout the lymphatic system and help manage symptoms of lymphedema.

In the earlier section How to know whether it is working?

People can also boost their lymphatic system function and help remove more waste from the body using the following methods:

- drinking plenty of water

- engaging in physical activity

- eating vegetables and fruits

- limiting processed foods

Neil

[Denisguay in reply to AussieNeil]

OK. Thanks, but we have not linphedema. But here said; The lymphatic system plays a key role in the body’s immune defenses. Lymphatic fluid flows through lymph vessels, which connect lymph nodes. As it passes through the lymph nodes, white blood cells trap and destroy harmful particles, such as bacteria.

Also Glympathic system /with G, in the brain could be implicated, Cheers, D

[msnik in reply to Denisguay]

hello, I find your question and AussieNeal's reply interesting. I took a quick look for the "G" word...it seems to be GLYMPHATIC.....nature.com/articles/s41573-...

I realize you are in Spain from looking at your profile, so not trying to be unkind by correcting your spelling...it may be different in Spanish.....but, I am quite intrigued, as I do have CNS involvement so anything to do with the CNS/CSF is of interest to me. Thanks for mentioning it. I look forward to learning more. Years ago I used to get massages, but have not for a long time. I have wondered if they are safe for CLL/SLL patients.

thanks for your question and good luck.

[LeoPa]

Trampoline jumping for the SLL version to reduce node size? I remember a post about it. I think the conclusion was unconvincing. Maybe good maybe not.

[mdsp7]

I like the idea of moving the lymph around in the body--exercise does that, right? And exercise is great for us. If you don't have any other form of cancer I think lymphatic drainage would be very good to try.

[Denisguay in reply to mdsp7]

I think there are any studies on that. I'm not talking about curing CLL with LD but rather quickly expelling toxins or other things that cause discomfort or extreme fatigue and cognitive disorders. I did the WIM HOFF method for a year but it's too cold and my body didn't get used to it after a year,,, I take saunas. I usually go to physiotherapy and swimming, the worst thing is the brain fog, nausea and fatigue and all of that helps me. My labs are ok....

[Otterblue2]

I have used cold water swimming (lakes) and cold baths to increase lymphatic circulation. That's not for everyone, especially if you have heart issues. My favorite combo is a 20-30-minute far infrared sauna followed by a cold shower; the cold shower feels great after the heat.

I have had lymphatic drainage massages, but my other strategies seemed to be more effective.

[Edalv]

I get massage therapy on a regular basis… and I find lymphatic massages very relaxing so much so that I often fall asleep. Just make sure you get a well trained and professional massage therapist that knows what he/she is doing.., 🙏

[SeymourB]

Denisguay -

I had brain fog during watch and wait and treatment. I also had swollen calves, ankles, and feet, and wore support hose. Swelling began to disappear during treatment, and is gone now. It took a few months after finishing treatment for brain fog to lift. I think there's multiple causes. Increased energy let's me exercise more vigorously, which also helps.

I do think massage is safe during leukemia. Warnings about lymph massage and cancer are for solid tumors, where there is a fear of spreading metastases, I think. Leukemia lymphocytes are everywhere in the body, and leukemia doesn't metastasize.

I think the alternative medicine idea of detoxing is based on multiple meanings of the word " toxin", theory, and fear without actual evidence of measuring toxins or removal. Cellular toxins do exist, but it's so much more complicated than "do this to remove toxins." Cellular toxins are different from chemical toxins from the environment or foods or the toxic effects of drugs.

=seymour=

references:

my.clevelandclinic.org/heal...

Cleveland Clinic - Lymphatic Drainage Massage

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pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/?so...

Some reviews of evidence for manual lymphatic drainage

I found no references to research when I searched PubMed for "manual lymphatic drainage" and "leukemia".

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pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/300...

Lymphadenopathy defined