People with high blood levels of niacin, (vita... - CLL Support

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People with high blood levels of niacin, (vitamin B3), may be more likely to have a heart attack or stroke than those with lower levels

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilAdministrator
9 Replies

I have a confession to make: I take vitamin supplements. Why is this a confession? Well, because research has indicated for years that dietary supplements are a waste of money for most people. newscientist.com/article/23... (Registration required)

So begins this week's email from New Scientist Health reporter, Grace Wade, who continues;

"Study after study shows they have minimal to no benefit for preventing conditions such as cancer or cardiovascular disease. In fact, vitamin E and beta carotene, a source of vitamin A, have been linked to an increased risk of cancer. Even turmeric supplements caused liver damage in a small subset of people. newscientist.com/article/23... (Registration is not required to read this article)

Despite knowing this, I still take a few supplements. This is mostly because I am vegetarian and I worry about not consuming enough of the nutrients found in high amounts in meat, such as vitamin B12 and iron. To some degree I view supplements like a nutritional insurance policy, making up for any gaps in my diet. Plus, what is the harm, right? Vitamins are essential for our health after all. But new research has me rethinking this philosophy.

Stanley Hazen at the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio and his colleagues found that people with high blood levels of niacin, also known as vitamin B3, are more likely to have a heart attack or stroke than those with lower levels. This is potentially because the body converts excess niacin into a compound called 4PY, which, in rodents, can inflame blood vessels. And, as New Scientist previously reported, inflammation is a major contributor to heart disease." newscientist.com/article/23... " (Registration is not required to read this article)

Specifically, people with elevated levels of 4PY, a compound which only arises when the body breaks down excess niacin, were about 60 per cent more likely, on average, to have a heart attack or stroke than those with lower levels.

From the referenced New Scientist article about the niacin research;

Heart attacks and stroke are leading causes of death worldwide. While researchers have made significant strides over the past few decades in discovering the risk factors for these conditions, they haven’t identified them all.

“If you treat [high] cholesterol and [high] blood pressure and diabetes and all the existing risk factors, you can still suffer a heart attack,” says Stanley Hazen at the Cleveland Clinic in Ohio. “There is something that we are missing.”

In an effort to fill these gaps, Hazen and his colleagues collected blood samples from 2331 adults in the US and 832 adults in Europe who had elected to undergo cardiovascular screenings. The team analysed the samples for substances called metabolites, byproducts of metabolic processes such as digestion. The researchers then tracked incidents of cardiac events, such as heart attacks and strokes, among the participants over three years.

Here's the Cleveland Clinic research report;

Cleveland Clinic-Led Study Discovers Link between High Levels of Niacin – a Common B Vitamin – and Heart Disease

- Excess Niacin Breakdown Product Fuels Inflammation, Cardiovascular Disease through Newly Discovered Pathway

newsroom.clevelandclinic.or...

"Niacin (vitamin B-3) is very common in a Western diet. “For decades, the United States and more than 50 nations have mandated niacin fortification in staple foods such as flour, cereals and oats to prevent disease related to nutritional deficiency,” said Dr. Hazen. Yet one in four subjects in the researchers’ patient cohorts appear to be getting too much, and had high levels of 4PY, which appears to contribute to cardiovascular disease development.

Dr. Hazen compares our intake of niacin as multiple taps pouring water into a bucket. Once that bucket is filled, it begins to spill over. The human body then needs to process that spill-over and produce other metabolites, including 4PY.

“The main takeaway is not that we should cut out our entire intake of niacin – that’s not a realistic approach,” said Dr. Hazen. “Given these findings, a discussion over whether a continued mandate of flour and cereal fortification with niacin in the U.S. could be warranted.”

Dr. Hazen notes broader use of over-the-counter supplements made with different forms of niacin have also become popular because of presumed anti-aging purposes. He adds that patients should consult with their doctors before taking over-the-counter supplements and focus on a diet rich in fruit and vegetables while avoiding excess carbohydrates. (My emphasis)

The new findings also might help explain why niacin is no longer a go-to treatment for lowering cholesterol. Niacin was one of the first treatments prescribed to lower LDL or “bad” cholesterol. However, eventually niacin showed to be less effective than other cholesterol-lowering drugs and was associated with other negative effects and higher mortality rates in previous research."

Grace Wade concludes with a similar recommendation I've made many times in respect to whether to take a supplement; "Given I am a young woman in the US, I may actually need my iron supplements. But instead of assuming so, I am going to talk with my doctor, who may want to order a blood test to check my levels. Moving forward, I want to be absolutely certain that any supplement I take is necessary for my health and not a fraudulent insurance policy."

Neil

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Sushibruno profile image
Sushibruno

vitamin B3? Can we get tested?

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilAdministrator in reply to Sushibruno

Why would you need to be tested? In the United States, niacin deficiency is exceedingly rare.

webmd.com/diet/niacin-defic...

Niacin Deficiency Causes

In the 1800s, pellagra was common among poor Americans whose diets consisted mostly of corn, molasses, and salt pork -- all poor sources of niacin. Today, most people in the developed world get plenty of niacin in their diets. Niacin deficiency is more likely to be caused by problems that affect the absorption of niacin or tryptophan. The most common cause is alcoholism. Other possible causes include disorders of the digestive system and prolonged treatment with the tuberculosis drug isoniazid (Laniazid, Nydrazid).

Sushibruno profile image
Sushibruno in reply to AussieNeil

thanks Neil, I just never heard of it and to be honest I jumped the “gun” and didn’t read the whole post.

naddude profile image
naddude

Thanks, Neil, I wondered about niacin.

tesoro5858 profile image
tesoro5858

Recent research (from Australia, I think) found that niacinamide (500 mg twice daily) may help to prevent basal cell skin cancer. I wonder if this level of supplementation would be an inflammatory risk for increased heart attack or stroke risk? Thanks for posting this information.

DanBro1 profile image
DanBro1

I take a multivitamin 3-4 times per week, plus a baby aspirin. Seems like for every positive study out there, you can find another study that contradicts it.

CBME profile image
CBME

I was really referring to taking Quercetin and Tumeric and Bromelain combination by Vimerson. Also (but didn't mention) adding Green Tea Extract (EGCG) to my regimen. Was wondering if anyone else takes this and in what dosage. I don't take B3 or Niacin. Thanks for being so responsive.

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilAdministrator in reply to CBME

Nina,

I've separately replied to your earlier post about quercertin and CLL. The supplement you are taking is marketed to help with joint pain and boost immunity. The turmeric mixture is unlikely to have any effect on your CLL based on the results of this human study of 21 participants

healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

From the product information I note the statements;

For further immune support, we’ve also added Bromelain to each capsule. This group of enzymes taken from pineapples also balances inflammation, helping you to maintain a healthy immune system.*

*These Statements have not been evaluated by the Food and Drug Administration. This product is not intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease.

Taking immunity boosting supplements when you have CLL is potentially dangerous, because if you look at the evidence behind the claims, it's nearly always evidence for increased activity and growth of lymphocytes. For Bromelain, accordingly there's this research:-

Bromelain modulates T cell and B cell immune responses in vitro and in vivo

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/114...

"In vivo, bromelain enhanced T-cell-dependent, Ag-specific, B cell antibody responses."

Per my reply to your earlier post, there doesn't appear to be any good quality human trials with respect to turmeric and bromeliad with CLL to determine whether it might help.

With respect to taking EGCG (green tea) and turmeric , there is in vitro research showing that they work best when taken separately, not at the same time. So if you are taking your current supplement to reduce joint pain and want to keep doing so because you find it helps, you'd need to take EGCG, say 12 hours apart.

We have around 200 posts about EGCG:

healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

The EGCG dose used in the clinical trial was 4 grams per day, but it was a pharmaceutical grade product, Polyphenon-E, which is no longer made in capsule form. That amount of EGCG can cause digestive upsets and poison your liver (happened to me), so your doctor needs to monitor your liver function tests. The Mayo Clinic researcher, Dr Neil Kay, has advised CLL patients not to use EGCG for CLL "because we don't know what's in it", That's because supplements are unregulated in most countries so quality is a concern.

Neil

Pearlpink profile image
Pearlpink

gosh it’s so interesting. The phrase we tell each other on here “we are all different” seems so true.

In a few years time when personalised medicine will be so much more available, everything will maybe be so much easier.

We saw similar things for hrt when people had to take it for early menopause for which there was no increased risk, but there’s a tiny risk with longer courses at later age. The secret might be as Neil says, identifying whether you, as an individual need a supplement.

I’ve mentioned before that I luckily have an early warning system. My hair starts to drop if my b12, bit d, or iron stores drop. I know that I’ve regularly had deficiencies in these for years.

At the start of my illness I used to take all sorts of supplements but now I take the ones that suit me. I need b12, vit d, daily. I also take a gluten free multivitamin without iron a few times a week, and notice the difference if I don’t.

I virtually get no sun though, because I have an inherited rash which blisters in the sun, as well as increased risk of cancer from that, and cll, and family history. And live in the Uk!

Thank you! So fascinating!

I started taking the multivitamin that contains nicotinamide rather than niacin (years ago and can’t remember why! ) and I wonder if there’s any difference in breakdown products!

And my old multivits caused me lots of problems because I didn’t know I had coeliac disease!

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