Why have a Flu jab?: I was diagnosed with CLL in... - CLL Support

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Why have a Flu jab?

stavropigio profile image
69 Replies

I was diagnosed with CLL in 2003 and have neither had nor needed

treatment so far.

However I have had 3 Pfeizer jabs and still have no antibodies.

I am now being told I must have a Flu jab.

What's the point?

I clearly don't produce antibodies.

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stavropigio profile image
stavropigio
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AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilAdministrator

If you've had the flu or a flu vaccination previously, or another similar virus, then you'll have memory B cells that will be stimulated by your flu vaccination, so should produce some antibodies. Even if the above doesn't apply, you may still develop some T cell based immunity. That could reduce the seriousness of the flu if you are infected, reducing your risk of pneumonia, which is particularly deadly when you have CLL.

Neil

stavropigio profile image
stavropigio in reply to AussieNeil

Many thanks for your advice, which everyone in this group seems to respect.There were things I obviously hadn't understood.

I had my flu jab half an hour ago!!

shoshanaz profile image
shoshanaz in reply to stavropigio

Good to hear. I had no reaction to my Covid vaccines either, but when I got the flu vaccine this year, I had significant side-effects for a day or so. Something clearly was kicking in. I get the flu vaccine every year, but last year tested positive for flu (VERY mild case) when they were screening for Covid (negative) . I suspect that's why I got the reaction this time. So AussieNeil is clearly on target with his comments. I hope everyone takes his advice to heart.

annabelle63 profile image
annabelle63

I did test for antibodies and I’m good. I will not get the flu shot or the third vaccine The one thing I thing that happened to me is extreme pain from the vaccines. I have never had a flu shot so I’m out .

HopeME profile image
HopeME in reply to annabelle63

Hi Annabelle;

I read some of your older posts and see that you had pneumonia about four years ago. Please read Neil’s post above regarding how the flu can lead to pneumonia and how deadly pneumonia can be for folks with CLL. We really need to do all we can to protect us from things like Covid, Flu and Pneumonia. Please reassess your vaccination strategy as it could save your life.

Best,

Mark

onu1tadi2 profile image
onu1tadi2 in reply to HopeME

I have not had a flu or covid shot. I've been asked why I may be foolish but I don't see people except someone also isolated. I go out for groceries, and appointments, enjoy our neighbourhood sights outdoors and avoid face to face long talks. Have active virtual life and online work. No public transit. No need to risk discomfort of a vaccine I feel. Also stress of vac could trigger the afib the ibrutinib causes. At 76 after an active life in theater, education and media. I have not had flu in past 40 or 50 years. I pray i do not get covid. I still wear contact lenses with ease. I think of vaccinating but fear it more than the low probability of getting Covid. Mostly i fear sales clerks handling my credit card. But i admire courage of those who get the vac.

HopeME profile image
HopeME in reply to onu1tadi2

Most can’t or don’t want to isolate indefinitely so you are certainly the exception to the rule. I’d worry about uncontrollable exposure to others if I were you. The most obvious example that jumps to mind is the hospital. At 76 with multiple health issues a hospitalization is quite possible and despite best efforts hospitals often harbor many infection risks including highly contagious Covid. It’s an unavoidable risk as hospitals are full of sick patients. Please reconsider your vaccination stance. It could save your life or the life of another.

Best,

Mark

onu1tadi2 profile image
onu1tadi2 in reply to HopeME

I feel safe at our hospital. In fact that is the only place in Toronto where I can sit down and have a meal without a covid passport. They give everyone new masks on entry. Seats and tables well spaced out. Only must take care to not go in elevator with more than 2 people.

HopeME profile image
HopeME in reply to onu1tadi2

You might not feel as safe if you were admitted to the hospital. Also, since CLL is a progressive disease that often erodes our immune system it is entirely possible that a vaccine today would be more effective than a vaccine received in the future.

Best,

Mark

onu1tadi2 profile image
onu1tadi2 in reply to HopeME

I do not trust the established supervision of medical practice. I really am afraid that side effects of the vac could stress me enough to trigger arrhythmia or even lead to illness of longer duration. And after all, for CLL patients we know the antibodies are very low. Even for normal people the vax is not ideal. I cannot afford to get sick, period. If I get sick with Covid, early treatment is the ideal protection. An honest system would have provided treatment widely to clinics and hospitals, instead of spending all their budget on forced vaccination efforts.

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilAdministrator in reply to onu1tadi2

I appreciate you have concerns, but with respect to those you have with your health system, nothing comes close to the community benefits of vaccination, plus these benefits are deliverable at a mere fraction of the budget costs of other alternatives.

COVID-19 protection costs ($US):-About $30 to $40 for each dose of COVID-19 vaccine (with the benefit of limiting infection on a population-wide basis and high efficacy in preventing hospitalization or death in case of infection. With CLL, we may get some cellular T cell protection, even if we don't produce antibodies).

$700 for a full course of the new antiviral molnupiravir. No benefit of long-lasting immunity or community protection, 50% effective in preventing hospitalization or death.

$1,250 or more for each monoclonal antibody treatment, with immunity waning over the next 6 months. 70% effective in preventing hospitalization and death in people with mild COVID-19. It is also challenging to scale up production compared to vaccines or antivirals.

Neil

Unglorious profile image
Unglorious in reply to onu1tadi2

After I sent you a message I realized you live in Toronto,

Edalv profile image
Edalv in reply to onu1tadi2

I respect you decision and each of us has to do what we consider is the best decision regarding vaccination. But we are entering an endemic period with covid. That means it will be around for a long time among us. I am not OK with living in isolation for the rest of my life. I am also not a big fun of vaccines, but I got the covid vaccine in February and received the booster shot last week. I am going on a road trip today. And plan a small gathering with friends for Thanksgiving, all vaccinated. Each one of us has to assess the risk reward benefits of our decision, but the numbers are overwhelming in favor of getting the covid jab regarding hospitalization and survival rate. Best of luck

onu1tadi2 profile image
onu1tadi2 in reply to Edalv

Thanks for your thoughts. I am afraid of side effects of vac. I go by probabilities. Only people i know who have had covid got it from work. My work is online at home and until recently with masks, shields etc. Now the college demands passports. I do not believe authorities have certainty about aspects of covid, enough to plan our future.

SofiaDeo profile image
SofiaDeo in reply to onu1tadi2

Have you had severe reactions to previous vaccines? Previously, flu vaccines were only available as egg sourced, which is a common allergen. There is at least 1 new type of flu vaccine that no longer contains any egg. Is this where you are getting your probabilities? Because if you have studied statistics, please remember the "people you know who got Covid" probably are not a statistically significant percentage of people getting Covid, so thinking that a workplace is the only place one catches diseases is not true. I agree that your risk is very low based on your lifestyle, but I also think if you were "high risk" for A fib you wouldn't be on a BTK inhibitor. So the chances of A fib are likely lower than you imagine, and are likely less than the chances of contracting an infectious airborne disease during flu season or high Covid spikes if you go out in public.

I would think the influenza risk is a bit lower, because influenza makes people look as well as feel sick while showing symptoms early in the disease. So people either stay home, or at least we can see that they are ill to avoid them. With Covid, there is an unprecedented asymptomatic period where the disease is transmitted. People don't look ill, or show symptoms, but can easily pass it along. This ease of transmission is mathematically/medically referred to as " R naught"

healthline.com/health/r-nau...

With an R naught around 5.7, Covid is much much easier to catch than influenza. Back before your immunity got impaired with CLL, you may have had a robust immune system as evidenced by few colds or flu. But now that your immune system is affected by disease, the chances of severe illness are higher:

creakyjoints.org/living-wit...

So please take these considerations into your decision making.

onu1tadi2 profile image
onu1tadi2 in reply to SofiaDeo

I appreciate the trouble you've taken to write me such a thorough response. However I must say that THE statistical norms means something to the government in its planning but nothing to the individual. You have to know what specific category you belong to. My chances of Afib are thousands of times higher than getting Covid as have had 6 bouts in past 6 months and no Covid. Brought on by stress. Do I am taking small dose of thinners for now. I can prevent Afib by avoiding buildup up of stresses -eg. 10 hour stint working on computer. The acalabrutinib has less side effects than other meds so i keep taking it. Will stop maybe in 6 months. Never had any vaccine since childhood. No influenza or flu. Instincts tell me what to avoid. Life is a minefield as heart, kidney etc ailments or diabetes etc strike millions without warning. But government does not control the food and cleaning products etc to prevent much of that. I think Covid fears are overblown except for high - probability lifestyles. I am deeply shocked that the treatments are so difficult to find. The budget should not be a consideration when lives are at stake. And most Covid patients these days are vaxxed.

lindalou5 profile image
lindalou5 in reply to onu1tadi2

That is how I live also...I do carry and use antibacterial in a small bottle and use it each time someone hands me money or card back.

onu1tadi2 profile image
onu1tadi2 in reply to lindalou5

Good idea. I will do that instead of worry.

lindalou5 profile image
lindalou5 in reply to onu1tadi2

but have had flu shot every year for over 30 years and have not had the flu one time- (knocking on wood)

onu1tadi2 profile image
onu1tadi2 in reply to lindalou5

I have not had the flu for at least 30 years and no flu shots. I have lectured and work closely with people and traveled thru China on a lecture tour. But i do have CLL.

Unglorious profile image
Unglorious in reply to onu1tadi2

Good for you, living the life you want to lead but with care. Did not know you could get Acalabrutinib in Canada, I am in Vanvouver.

onu1tadi2 profile image
onu1tadi2 in reply to Unglorious

Thank you for thumbs up. My specialist got me listed in some kind of charitable category so i get the acalabrutinib (Calquence directly delivered from Astra Zeneca)

Unglorious profile image
Unglorious in reply to onu1tadi2

Appreciate the info. Keep safe.

Vizilo profile image
Vizilo

My cll specialist agrees with Neil. The antibody test does not measure T-cell increased immunity resulting from vaccination. The risks of additional vaccinations are far outweighed by potential benefits. You may still get COVID and/or influenza but you are less likely to be hospitalized or worse.

Anecdotically, I have had flu shots for as long as I can remember (for at least 7 years with cll) and have never had the flu (even around snotty grandkids)

Vlaminck profile image
Vlaminck in reply to Vizilo

I was under the impression that T cells were a type of antibody --?

Edalv profile image
Edalv in reply to Vlaminck

It is my understanding that the antibodies test can only check the level of spike protein on the IGGs… Please someone correct me if I am wrong. Thanks

Vlaminck profile image
Vlaminck in reply to Edalv

Thanks, hmmm. This is new to me.

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilAdministrator in reply to Vlaminck

T cells, like B cells, may have receptors by which they can identify pathogens, but unlike B cells, they don't shed the receptor protein structure as a free floating antibody/immunoglobulin.

Neil

Vizilo profile image
Vizilo in reply to Vlaminck

I’m not a scientist but as I understand it, t-cells are immune cells that attack viruses. While antibodies work to prevent infections, t-cells only start working once a virus invades your body.

So, if you do manage to get COVID, your body would rely on the t-cells to attack and destroy the COVID virus. A lot of our discussions focus on how antibodies are destroyed in people with cll especially those on targeted therapy. We talk less about the probability that people in treatment may produce additional healthy t-cells.

A good analogy - the antibodies are the walls around the fort that keep out invaders. The t-cells are soldiers that destroy the enemy that gets in through the fort.

Vlaminck profile image
Vlaminck in reply to Vizilo

So my antibodies, which I do have, are basically all Bcells?

Vizilo profile image
Vizilo in reply to Vlaminck

Antibodies are produced by b-cells as I understand it

SofiaDeo profile image
SofiaDeo in reply to Vizilo

To clarify, unless you are vaccinated (or get IVIG from a population exposed to a virus) your B-cells won't make antibodies until exposed to the actual pathogen.

And to use your analogy further, the T-cells also roam around the countryside, killing invaders so that a fort may not even need to be built. This is the basis behind some discussion about certain unvaccinated people in a house full of Covid family members who didn't become ill and yet don't have any Covid antibodies. Their T-cells are thought to have destroyed the virus before their B-cells could react to the virus. And it would be somewhat rare, since any T cell activation generally stimulates B cells.

onu1tadi2 profile image
onu1tadi2 in reply to Vizilo

I know they say vaxes reduce severity of Covid when a vaxed person gets it, but that means a vaxed immunocompromised person gets less reduced severity. Who has measured this? I am not sure "far outweighed" is accurate. I may be wrong of course.

Vizilo profile image
Vizilo in reply to onu1tadi2

I agree no one has measured it but in Canada very few of the vaccinated COVID infections end up in ICU or worse. And, I suspect vaccinated immunocompromised persons are also more careful in masking and social distancing.

devonrr profile image
devonrr

My simple view is that they want me to have it. It does no harm. It possibly stops me becoming seriously ill. You buy a raffle ticket with a wish to win. It doesn’t happen but you could have been a winner!!!

kitchengardener2 profile image
kitchengardener2 in reply to devonrr

What a sensible outlook, very true so I will continue to buy 'every ticket I can'. We have to do our best to stay as healthy as we can.

Incidentally, we have two friends (a couple), he is 80 and she was 79 yesterday, they have horrified us with the things they have done during this pandemic. They have continued to visit and have visits from their families and friends, rarely wear masks, go to the theatre (which she said was absolutely packed). Their attitude is well, its worth the risk to see life. I took her birthday gift on Tuesday and the look she gave me when I was wearing my mask, refused to go in the house and stood well back was one of disbelief. I really want to get back to 'living ' again but I am content to be patient.

Nikon- profile image
Nikon- in reply to kitchengardener2

Everyone seems to be acting as if covid has gone away and then they will moan when we have another lockdown like is happening in the rest of Europe 🥴

Ironj profile image
Ironj

That’s great never needed treatment on w&w for 18 years, a lot of people on w&w hope for this as well.

I get what your saying about what’s the point but the flu shot may help it’s better to be safe it can’t hurt to get it.

I’m on watch as well and I’ll take every vaccine that’s available in hopes I get protection.

John

Strech51 profile image
Strech51 in reply to Ironj

Hi Ironj. I totally agree anything I can gets the better. Been on W&W just under a year so it would be nice If I could follow your achievement.

Steve

stavropigio profile image
stavropigio in reply to Ironj

Thanks for your kind mail. I had my flu jab half an hour ago!!

Strech51 profile image
Strech51

Hi stavropigio. I know its total frustrating as when we get the jab you never know how good its going to do you. Its a case of wait and see and hope. I have had both flu and 3 Covid jabs. Covid result was " no antibodies " I am not sure if you can get a Flu antibody test. I have the jabs in the hope that some of those magic T cells will sort it out for us.

I must admit I always follows Aussie Neil advice he knows what he's talking about.

Suzieinwv profile image
Suzieinwv in reply to Strech51

He absolutely does!

stavropigio profile image
stavropigio in reply to Strech51

Thanks for your kind mail. I had my flu jab half an hour ago!!

Strech51 profile image
Strech51 in reply to stavropigio

Brilliant. It is alway better to at least try,All the best Steve

Pin57 profile image
Pin57

18 years W&W but getting no spike antibodies from covid vaccines is surely a letdown n can sense your frustration. But Aussie Neil’s right, in that you may have T-Cells help to battle covid n you don’t even know it cus the antibodies tests are limited in what it can tell us.

I’d second and third the previous opinions given to go ahead n get flu shot and if you in age group eligible to get pneumonia vaccine shot(s), I’d think seriously of doing that too. Aussie pointed out pneumonia is a potentially high killer for us CLLers but there is a vaccine available.

There’s a good pinned-post on recommended vaccines CLLers should consider getting (and The why)… I appologize, I don’t have the link handy to note. One of the Admins wrote it and it’s really a good informative post.

Hoping you continue your W&W journey or better yet maybe a cure will come along one of these years?! Stay well and wishing you the best with your vaccine decision(s).

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilAdministrator in reply to Pin57

Here's the pinned post on recommended vaccinations if you have CLL: healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

The post was written and is maintained by PaulaS , one of our community volunteers.

Neil

Pin57 profile image
Pin57 in reply to AussieNeil

Thanks AwesomeNeil for posting the article link. PaulaS (volunteer not an Admin, my mistake!) did a super recommended vaccine listing.

PaulaS profile image
PaulaSVolunteer in reply to Pin57

Hi Pin57, I'm glad you found the vaccines post helpful. It wasn't just my thing, Jackie Jm954 was involved too. :-) Paula

stavropigio profile image
stavropigio in reply to Pin57

Dear Pin57, Thanks for your kind mail. I had my flu jab half an hour ago!!

Stav

Eucalyptus22 profile image
Eucalyptus22

I had the pneumonia vaccine before getting CLL at least 15 years ago. They told me it would cover me for life. Now that I have CLL and on a BTKi do I need to get a booster. My GP says they don't normally give boosters but will Acalabrutinib have wiped out my previous pneumonia vaccination. In other words, am I at risk now if I get pneumonia?

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilAdministrator in reply to Eucalyptus22

I had a similar experience of being informed by my GP that my pnemovax 23 vaccination would protect me for life. Unfortunately a CLL diagnosis changed that, yet this was recognised in the recommended adult vaccination schedule, so a second vaccination was recommended. Then it was discovered that the new prevnar 13 provided better protection, so I had that too. The recommended order and spacing are all detailed in PaulaS's above mentioned post: healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

Don't be surprised if you find your request challenged by your regular doctor, as with CLL, we fall into a group that falls out of the standard vaccination protocol. Just refer to the referenced UK immunisation document, or get your consultant to provide written advise confirming that you need further pneumonia vaccination(s) and know that you have reduced your risk of dying from pneumonia.

Neil

PS Acalabrutinib won't have wiped out your previous vaccinations, just possibly reduced your level of protection, plus it will make it harder for vaccinations to produce more antibodies while you are taking it.

Vlaminck profile image
Vlaminck in reply to AussieNeil

Thanks for all the vaccination recommendations. Guess no longer polio? FWIW, my former doc (changed for competency reasons) gave me, first, the pneumonia 23. My (pre CLL) reaction was much, much stronger than I have had from any other shot ever, Covid included. In fact, it was as if my arm was broken, and I tried making a sling as it was so painful to move. I reported this reaction to doc, whether they cared or not. But boy, do I not want to get another! Will check with new doc re the 13 variety!

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilAdministrator in reply to Vlaminck

Polio is nearly always given to infants. If you didn't receive a polio vaccination as a child, then there are circumstances when you should consider having it as an adult:-

- You are traveling to a country where the risk of getting polio is greater. Ask your healthcare provider for specific information on whether you need to be vaccinated.

- You are working in a laboratory and handling specimens that might contain polioviruses.

-You are a healthcare worker treating patients who could have polio or have close contact with a person who could be infected with poliovirus.

cdc.gov/vaccines/vpd/polio/...

Neil

Vlaminck profile image
Vlaminck in reply to AussieNeil

Thanks. Yes, I got the whole deal as a child. Yet, I have been given boosters before leaving to spend time in third world countries so I'm guessing it is not lifetime immunity?

kitchengardener2 profile image
kitchengardener2

Well I am the same after Pfizer jabs but still have had my flu, pneumonia and shingles jabs. My consultant said to have whatever is offered in the hope that we may just have antibodies which aren't showing up. I shall continue to avoid groups and crowded places. My feeling is that once my Acalabrutinib treatment gets my blood into the normal range, I might start to develop some antibodies. I think I had CLL for many years before I was officially diagnosed and I lived a normal life so I fully intend to resume that life again.

stevesmith1964 profile image
stevesmith1964

Hi,I have had 3 jabs and 2 covid infections, and still have no antibodies. Remember antibodies are only part of the immune response to vaccines and infections, thus antibody should not be taken in isolation. Other immune functions T cell , macrophages etc etc. Just because you don't have antibodies it doesn't mean you haven't reduced your risk of hospitalisation etc.

So the same applies to Flu and other vaccines, the immune system is complex

stavropigio profile image
stavropigio in reply to stevesmith1964

Thanks to people like you, I had my flu jab an hour ago!!

Copse77 profile image
Copse77

Flu nearly killed my previously fit, healthy non smoking,younger brother. I visited him daily in Critical care for 2 months. From being put on a ventilator we were then told he was going to die as all his organs were failing. He was then assessed and found to be a suitable candidate for ECMO which did save his life. It is a stark message I know but flu can be a killer. He spent 2.5 months in hospital where he had to relearn how to swallow, how to speak how to walk and many months beyond that on a rehabilitation journey. I am so thankful to the NHS and post here regularly usually on ICU steps to help other families going through critical and intensive care journeys. I am just raising awareness that flu can be very nasty so please be careful.

Copse77 profile image
Copse77

Here is a link to the website. We wrote our family story anonymously to protect the privacy of my brother and his family and to provide hope to others. ecmofamilysupport.com

PaulaS profile image
PaulaSVolunteer in reply to Copse77

Thanks for sharing your brother's story, Copse77. It's certainly a stark warning of how dangerous flu (and the pneumonia it may lead to) can be.

Interesting that his life was saved by an ECMO machine. I'd never heard of ECMO machines till a few years ago, when my baby grandson's life was saved by one. He was in Glasgow and at that time Glasgow had one of the only two ECMO machines in Scotland. Hopefully there are more around now...

Paula

Copse77 profile image
Copse77 in reply to PaulaS

Hi Paula same here I never knew. I am so happy your baby grandson was saved. My brothers youngest child was 6 when my brother became critically ill so we feel very lucky. There are only 2 ECMO machines at Manchester and people are airlifted in from all over UK. Sadly a friend of mine lost her 11 year old nephew in similar circumstances. Oliver was taken to Southampton but passed away.

PaulaS profile image
PaulaSVolunteer in reply to Copse77

So sad that your friend's young nephew didn't pull through, Copse77. I'm very sorry...

SERVrider profile image
SERVrider

Flu may seem to be a low level disease but it can, in unlucky cases kill. My aunt (who I never knew) was a fit and healthy 17, she visited a school friend who had the flu, caught it and died in 1938 while her friend recovered. Now pre-war, there weren't the treatments we have today and in 1918 flu killed more people than had been killed in the Great War but it hasn't gone away. Yes you might get away with it, but conversely, you might not. Reducing the risk, even by only a few percentage points, has got to be the wiser course of action and you'll never know whether it worked or not or whether you would have got the flu or whether it would have killed you. You've lived to see another day.

CLL23 profile image
CLL23

I'd take anything you can get. I was diagnosed six years ago and the CLL was dormant until August of last year. I found out what happens when you have a compromised immune system and get pneumonia.

Some of the fun inherent in that is having an ER doctor tell you're probably not going to see the sun come up -- and then getting air medivacced to a bigger hospital to the tune of $81,000.

All I'm saying is don't take any chances. Dormant CLL can turn on you for a lot of reasons.

Best wishes!

CLL23 profile image
CLL23

This is an add to my orginal post, which I can't find now. My view is colored by the fact that I contracted Covid-19 earlier in the year. This was the most horrid experience in my life -- it made monoclonal antibody chemo and a week in an ICU look like a proverbial walk in the park.

So I'm kind of a fan of vaxxes and boosters. Good luck and God bless!

AussieNeil profile image
AussieNeilAdministrator in reply to CLL23

Thanks for sharing your COVID-19 experience here: healthunlocked.com/cllsuppo...

(You can find your past posts and replies by selecting your avatar, then selecting your posts and replies tabs respectively.)

DanBro1 profile image
DanBro1

I know this is a stupid question, but a number of you on this board have stated that you have had CLL for years and have received no treatment. It seems to me that when we are diagnosed with CLL, treatment should begin sooner - not later. It feels like common sense. What am I missing??? What does your doc say to you, "You've got blood cancer and we will get around to treating it down the road"?? I was diagnosed with CLL last November and began treatment March 1st. I will have completed my treatment this coming March 1st, 2022.

SofiaDeo profile image
SofiaDeo in reply to DanBro1

About 1/3 of CLL patients currently do not have symptoms, or organ systems affected, to where they need treatment. They live with "compromised immunity", which also varies in severity. It's somewhat analogous to being diagnosed with diabetes: some diabetics simply watch what they eat, and never develop neuropathies or severe skin infections or get hospitalized with ketoacidosis or other problems. Yet some diabetics have wildly fluctuating blood sugar levels, may need multiple tests daily/insulin injections, deal with nerve damage, skin infections, eye and kidney problems, and are regularly hospitalized.

So having a diagnosis that is described as a type of "cancer" is often confusing, since many many cancers need urgent treatment. Otherwise death, if not severe disability, occurs. But not so with "Chronic" conditions. And this question-do we treat sooner rather than later- is being investigated.

It's not a stupid question; IMO there really aren't "stupid questions" when someone is trying to learn/understand. Unlike diabetes, treatments for CLL aren't as simple & harmless as adjusting food. These treatments affect other cells & organs, even though many are "less toxic" than traditional chemotherapy. So unless & until there is a clear benefit to risking the side effects of treatment, a decision Not to treat will be made. Or at least discussed.

Laura3mini profile image
Laura3mini

Wait stavropigio you have 18 years in W&W? that is awesome!

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