Hi everybody, Happy New year. I was just wondering if anybody could advise me on the use of Creatine for someone with compensated Cirrhosis. I've been teetotal for almost 4 years since diagnosis and in the last year and a half have been exercising and building muscle. My recent liver scan showed everything is ticking along well and I currently feel extremely healthy (touch wood!) I eat lots of protein on a daily basis, along with a healthy diet but now that my muscle capacity is increasing I've been thinking about adding Creatine powder to my daily intake as well. If anyone has any advice or warning please contact me.
Kind regards
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richoanajess
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Hi Rich - I was specifically advised not to take creatine by my consultant. Everyone's situation will be different, but unless your doctor or consultant gives you the go ahead then I would avoid any supplement.Everyone raves about creatine, but in my experience (before my diagnosis) it made very little difference to my training, and so long as you are eating a good diet with sufficient macronutrients you will progress just fine. There's also the slippery slope risk ... creatine doesn't really make a difference, so you add BCAAs, then you add in Beta Alanine etc ... before you know it you're flushing lots of ££ down the loo every morning. Basic nutrition, training and sleep/recovery are far more important!
Thanks Paul, that's much appreciated advice, about the effectiveness aspect too 🙂 well I've gone 33 years without taking supplemental Creatine so for the moment I'll continue to stay away until I speak to my gastroenterologist. I still appear to be gaining pretty good natural muscle anyway, if the mirror and my wife aren't lying to me!!
If you are consuming sufficient proteins in your day to day diet to be rebuilding and gaining muscle tone and strength, any protein suppliments are not required. Further more suppliments of any kind should not be consumed with liver disease unless prescribed by your specialist as they can cause further damage to your liver as it has to work so hard to process it.Laura
DON'T milk thistle causes damage to the liver please lay off introducing this sort of crap to your body. It's a rip off, unregulated and your struggling liver can't cope with it.
I was under the impression Milk thistle was one of the best supplements for overall liver health...I've been taking it for over 3 years. Has recent data been found that says it is damaging to the liver??
See what the trust has to say about it. It is certainly very much frowned upon. It has no benefitial properties can cause more damage to the liver and hits you hard in the pocket. Curing fatty liver and preventing further damage to the liver is all about taking away the things that cause the damage such as highly calorific foods containing high fats and sugars and of course alcohol. Replacing those foods with such suppliments only causes your liver to have to work harder to process it as l said. Please stop punishing it just allow it to rest and time to heal.
Hi Rich, I do weight training and attend the gym (when they are open anyway) and iv used creatine monohydrate and Ethyl Esther in the past. To be honest iv not noticed a big difference in performance or size with either. I think it gives top end athletes a bit of an edge but it didn't do much for me.So i just simply wouldn't use if I were you, nutrition is much more important. Keep your money
I read your bio and you say you're feeling great and healthier than you ever have, I'm curious to find out how you got your cirrhosis diagnosed?
Thanks for the advice, like I said I'm making good gains naturally so i think I'll follow all your advices and stay away from the creatine (and milk thistle!)
No I don't mind...So I was drinking on average 6 bottles of wine for at least 2 years and very high amounts in general for 10 years or so before that; I went to hospital in April 2017 aged 30 for 9 days. I was massively bloated, had been vomiting some nasty stuff every day which had blood like aspects, I was tinged with jaundice and was weak as a baby. I understand at that time my liver was decompensated. I went through the detox there and then was released to follow up with my gastro consultant.
I had an endoscopy which luckily showed no sign of varices, a fibroscan which did show scarring, ultrasound and bloods and they told me I had Cirrhosis soon afterwards. As I recovered my blood levels gradually came down and the fat around my liver reduced, it became compensated and seems to be working well.
Since then, I haven't touched a drop and over the last year and a half I've been exercising every day. Now I'm the fittest I've ever been with stamina, muscle mass, flexibility, cardio and energy all at very high levels with no sign of Cirrhosis complications yet. It does feel odd to feel this good having Cirrhosis though.
That is a vast amount to be consuming each day so hats off to you for managing to give up and maintain it. You are now doing the best you possibly can to look after your liver. Hopefully it will last.Well done 👍
Ah ok I'm sorry to hear that. It's good that you are still taking an interest in others who are going through similar journeys, I'm sure you have a lot of knowledge on the subject through what must have been tragic hard times x
I'm so sorry to jump on such an old post but you're around my age and I'm going through the journey of trying to diagnose potential liver pains. "6 bottles of wine a day" is that true? When you said 6 bottles of wine I thought weekly which would be in line with what my drinking was like for a year or two
Hey Jeb, no worries sadly it's true, I was drinking 6 bottles a day from waking up to sleeping/passing out...for about 2 years I think until I went in to hospital. Before that it crept up gradually over a few years. Do you have any other symptoms besides the liver pain? Even after abusing my liver to within an inch of it's life, I'm 4 years 7 months completely sober and the fittest, strongest, healthiest I've ever felt in my life so it's never too late to slow down or stop if you are hitting the bottle too hard. You're welcome to ask anything, even though I'm sure there are more knowledgeable people than me in this group
Without sounding like I'm condoning that level of drinking...that's impressive... I could have no more than 2 bottles in a night and I'd pass out until morning.
I "was" more of a binge drinker. A bottle of wine couple of ciders and whatever spirits or liqueurs were in the cupboard until I was drunk enough to fall asleep about twice a week, there was a period in my life where I was heavily depressed and would drink a bottle and a half of wine most nights but would often give myself a few days break every so often. The last 6 months I've cut down massively, from 2 nights a week to roughly once every couple of weeks and then in the last month I have gone full tea total. My biggest concern is for years I've had chronic pain issues due to mis-diagnosis so have also been on paracetamol and naproxen throughout my drinking which obviously is 2/3 toxins at the same time
The only symptoms so far are rib pain around about my liver area leading around into my back with a slight pain in my upper right abdomen, almost like a pinching pain that comes and goes. Had an x-ray to rule out my ribs. My guts are a little bit bad but that's always been the case, in truth I can understand why the doctor's are not concerned but given my history with alcohol and painkillers I think there is reason for concern to be considered so I'm pushing for an ultrasound at next appointment.
I'm amazed that you have been able to kick the booze after going through such a period and absolutely applaud your efforts, that takes some serious effort to cut back from that level of drinking. It's good to hear that you are healthier than ever, it at least gives me hope that if I have done the damage I still have a perfectly good chance at a healthy life.
Thanks, it has been a hard journey but in such a positive place now. I know what you mean though, kind of grotesquely impressive in a way...like a sword swallower or something! Im so glad though that I managed to stay on the wagon, frankly I was 100% certain I wouldn't last another 6 months once I was amboed to hospital,, terrifying. Fear was a powerful motivator to stay sober I guess 🤷♂️ at least for the first year or so of recovery.After that my motivation came in other ways, exercise healthy eating etc.
Yeh if you are concerned, ask for Liver function tests too if you haven't already, just to get a better overall picture.
And stay positive, you definitely have a chance for a healthy life
Fear is my biggest motivator too if I'm honest, I have got myself into such a state over it that If I have another drink my brain thinks it will kill me!
Even though I've officially only been "sober" a month life is already so much clearer, you can wake up on a Sunday and actually enjoy the day. You find yourself thinking what can I do today, where can I go. Rather than ugh what fast food place is open, what's going to cure this hangover today.
I had a full blood test which the GP assures me me tested all my liver function,kidney function etc and I was in the normal range which was reassuring until I read that it can be a false positive. Luckily my GP is quite understanding so it shouldn't be too much of a battle to get the proper scans, I got an x-ray within a week of being referred so hopefully the same for an ultrasound or MRI whatever they want to give me.
Hopefully my paranoia has saved me and I cut out alcohol in time before I started to do damage, but the brain can be a nasty thing and has convinced me that my liver is damaged, I guess until the scans confirm something I will always have that worry. Either way healthy liver or not alcohol will not be a problem in my life any longer, now that I've witnessed it without it,even if it's only really been a month I can't imagine going back to that horrendous lifestyle
Wish you all the success in your future, hopefully your cirrhosis stays in a good state for as long as possible. Keep up the good work
Hi, I'm doing great at the moment thanks. Past the 5 year mark with no booze, stopped taking Milk thistle a while ago after advice from some people on here. Every morning I take a couple of vitamins and a garlic tablet (odourless!) turmeric supplement and still eat healthy, not add salt to food, exercise etc. Not much else to offer as advice really, how are you getting on?
I thought extreme salt restriction was for ascites sufferers..well I’m ordering L’ornithine l’aspartate and Ieucine the worst that can happen is a lot of peeing 🙃
Are you sure you didn't have alcoholic hept., it is possible, your fiboscan could have been on the high side due to inflammation. Did you lose muscle mass due to your liver? An ultrasound isn't a good tool to diagnose cirrhosis. How are your blood work, do you have low platelets and hemoglobin, if not, get another fiboscan since you have been sober?
I haven't had a Fibroscan since 2017, just a couple of months after I left my hospital detox so perhaps I should request another one...I think my last few years of lft blood tests were back within normal levels so I'm pretty certain it's managing well if it is cirrhosis. It would be nice to think it was just inflamed from hepatitis but I think they're sure it is scarred to some degree. I don't think I ever asked in detail how much scarring/ was it getting better/ worse etc which I really should. I never even asked about MELD or child Pugh 😳 think I was always too scared to push and just focused on eating healthy, exercising and of course not drinking hoping I was a rare case where the scarring could heal!
Thankyou. There are sadly many partners watching their family members slowly kill themselves with this poison, while, as l was, bringing up children, at their wits end and struggling to cope, who need support and a bit of guidance on how to get through. If l can offer a bit of my experience to help them , then the loss of my husband has gone to good use. At the same time discouraging others from drinking...... because this is what could happen to you! x
Doctors usually say no to any supplements except for whey protein in limited amount. Red meat has natural creatine in it. Try Beet root juice before workout. It has nitric oxide and it improves the blood flow/circulation in your body. Many athletes drink beetroot juice and train with it! Cheers!
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I understand that. Currently I am only taking Milk Thistle and Vitamin D every day which both seem to be going down well.
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