Liver issues despite healthy lifestyle

[10720]

Hi, blood tests reveal issues with my liver (prompted by fatigue and unexplained weight gain). I very rarely drink alcohol, very rarely eat processed foods, any frying or roasting is with olive oil, eat fresh fruit and salads most days, eat very little white bread or rice and drink 1.2l water every evening as a minimum. I keep horses so have plenty of exercise - help!! What more can I do, I take milk thistle, garlic, and have just started on vitamin E

[Wass71]

Hi, there are many liver conditions which have nothing to do with lifestyle. Also the liver can be stressed for many reasons which have nothing to do with illness and aren't permanent. When Dr's say your LFT bloods are out of range this in itself is not worrying, you would need several results over a number of months to identify a trend. Also some LFTs are not liver specific so may be raised for other reasons, like alk phos being present in bone, so healing bones can show up as raised alk phos. The other important thing is not to worry to much as in liver illness some bloods go up more than 10 x the upper limit of normal, so little rises don't mean much.

Have you had any tests for auto immune illnesses. I have Primary Billiary cholangitis, which is identified by the presence of anti mitochondrial antibody (in most cases). Usually this accompanied by increased alk phos in your blood (one of the liver function tests). I would advise you look on the British liver trusts site, which has info on many liver diseases. You could also look at the PBC foundation website and see if you fit some of those symptoms. Although I will say, many liver symptoms are similar to many other illnesses and so it doesnt automatically mean you do have a liver problem.

I would ask your doctor to order a scan of your liver and do some further immunology testing. You could also request a referral to a hepatologist depending on those results.

Finally liver detoxes, and milk thistle are not recommended by the British liver Trust as there isn't any research on their efficacy, and can cause the liver further stress by trying to deal with the substance. The liver detoxes itself, that's one of its many jobs, you in fact give it more work by taking supplements etc.

I really hope you find out what's going on, hopefully just a strange blip, that will resolve. However if that's not the case those websites will give you plenty of information in order for you to feel able to question your Dr's and advocate for yourself to ensure the best outcome.

Best wishes, and take care.

[mrpenguin]

Not sure why you think rice is damaging to the liver. What kind of issue with your liver have the tests revealed? I have raised bilirubin & it's nothing whatsoever, just Gilberts syndrome, yeah it does have a few symptoms such as fatigue but otherwise it's fairly common & genetic.

Do you have any issues didigesting any particuar foods or discomfort afterwards? If so it could just be gallstone related & causing bile to back up into the liver.

[10720 in reply to mrpenguin]

The advice given after the blood results by Medichecks was avoid white bread rice and pasta (carbs) plus avoid alcohol, processed foods, eat more fruit & veg and take more exercise. I have yet to see my GP but some years ago when a scan revealed fat around the liver her advice (without asking any pertinent questions) was eat a healthy diet and lose weight. That was it - she didn't give me the chance to go through my diet or lifestyle. I have lost total faith in the primary care system TBH, they don't have the time or inclination to investigate properly or diagnose without waiting several weeks for the next test or scan. This was as a result of fatigue and unexplained weight gain over a few years, which was dismissed by the medics so I bought the blood tests without reference to them. Thyroid checked and then onto this full blood panel which revealed very high ALT and borderline high GGT.

[mrpenguin in reply to 10720]

So there is the possibility you might have had Fatty liver disease for some time already? That would explain the high ALT but if you're living a healthy life & eating healthy you should have reversed that I would imagine.

What are your blood sugar levels like? Maybe buy a monitor from Amazon for £15 & a pack of test strips & do a log, before each meal & either an hour or 2 hours after for a week. You can at least rule out blood sugar issues although you said they told you to avoid pasta & bread etc so maybe they think it's diabetes related?

[10720 in reply to mrpenguin]

Well pre diabetic was mentioned but the same advice comes up against the same existing diet & lifestyle - I'm not sure where i can make changes

[Owlie in reply to 10720]

Hi, I'm In a similar position. I don’t eat anything fried, I grill everything. I eat mostly fish with veg, snack on veg or fruit and occasionally eat chicken or turkey - no processed sauces. If I eat bread it’s whole grain brown and if I eat rice it’s brown. Breakfast is oats. What are your portion sizes like? You say you exercise as you have horses, how much time do you spend doing the hard stuff like mucking out a day? How overweight are you? I’ve lost a considerable amount of weight since last year by eating as above and exercising. I do 1 hr cardio and 30 mins strength training everyday. I echo the above re supplements, I don’t take anything and only drink water. My liver is healing itself as a result of what I’m doing so I’m very lucky. Hope you get sorted soon, Owlie

[mrpenguin in reply to Owlie]

Start adding lentils to your meals, cook 100-150g at a time & put them in a jar in the fridge so you have some to last 2-3 days.. Cheap as chips, you can buy 2kg worth for £3 if you shop around which if you work it out will last you around 1.5 - 2 months. I prefer brown & green lentils but you can get other types.. They have a significant effect on blood sugar levels, at least a 20% reduction and there's only benefits to consuming them.

I don't do any hard cardio, just short bursts of activity where i'll lift weights & do pushups & hip raises, sit ups for 20 minutes till I can't do anymore. Just 20 minutes a day & I look toned & muscular. You don't need a gym to get in shape, you just need to actually do something & once you start & get into a routine you actually start enjoying it.

[Hidden]

Sounds like your doing the right things. There may be some genetics at play. Slow metabolism, perhaps underactive thyroid?

The doctors are right about the white rice and white bread. Refined carbs and foods with high fructose corn syrup can cause and progress liver disease. Both alcoholic and Non alcoholic fatty liver stem from and are surrounded by the core of poor nutrition. Arguably alcoholic hepatitis in its fundamentals has more to do with malnutrition than it does with the alcohol itself. This is why many people who get severe alcoholic hep develop it a week or 2 after they stop drinking.

Like I said keep doing what your doing and maybe check in with the doctor to see of maybe something else is adding to the difficulty of losing the weight.

Best of luck to you!

[JimmyJackson]

I also have totally unexplained NAFLD have never drunk excess alcohol eat more or less perfect diet never had Hepatitis, blood tests normal etc yet my condition seems to be getting worse, a puzzle.

[Hidden in reply to JimmyJackson]

NAFLD in the 1st stage (simple fatty liver) would not have been caused by hepatitis. Its the opposite in fact where if the simple fatty liver is left untreated it can advance to NASH (non alcoholic stateohepatitis). Hepatitis just means inflamattion. Not to be confused with the title given to viral hepatitis strains like A, B and C. Apologies if you already knew that and Im just stating fact already known to you Jimmy 🙂.

Keep in mind NAFLD isnt always caused by diet or being over weight primarily in people. Just as an example, a member of ours on here has had cirrhosis twice, before and now after transplant that is caused by ongoing polycystic ovarian syndrome. Medical researchers are starting to link alot of things outside of just diet to contributing to NAFLD. Psoriasis was also found to have a link to liver disease amongst some of these findings. Something not fully yet understood but, is being acknowledged.

Hopefully some answers to the what seems to be "idiopathic" NAFLD will come to light soon as these medical studies advance. Interestingly as well is that though we know to keep alcohol at bay with any liver disease to prevent progression, there are quite a few medical studies being published that have found that moderate alcohol consumption in NAFLD can actually help prevent the progression to NASH. Though for anyone reading this please note that I AM NOT suggesting to do so lol! Just stating that it is being studied.

Its late and im rambling.. Best of luck my friend!

[JimmyJackson in reply to Hidden]

That’s very interesting, I get confused by the terminology I do actually have NASH but thought it was the same as NAFLD, more interesting I have also suffered from Psoriasis for many years.

By coincidence yesterday I saw a consultant in Derriford Plymouth, having been referred from RCH in Truro & he also was very interested to hear of my Psoriasis, which I only mentioned as an afterthought.

I also suffer from insomnia & am convinced this is somehow tied in with my cirrhosis.

Actually alcohol really doesn’t bother me haven’t drunk, apart fro an odd half of beer for 25 yrs plus

Best Wishes

[AyrshireK in reply to JimmyJackson]

Read about the differences between NAFLD and NASH at the British Liver Trust website. britishlivertrust.org.uk/li...

Katie

[jojokarak in reply to JimmyJackson]

Have you been on steroid creams / tablets for your psoriasis?

[JimmyJackson in reply to jojokarak]

Diprobase (which I don’t think is steroid based)daily + occasional steroid creams when bad

My condition is not as bad as other sufferers I know of, but is more of a continual irritation, which the Diprobase mostly keeps under control

[jojokarak in reply to JimmyJackson]

I just know of some psoriasis meds causing liver problems 😊

But most of my family use diprobase so I know it's safe... I am quite lucky I have a flare up every few years and as quick as it comes it goes

[Hidden in reply to jojokarak]

Jojo! Glad you showed up here🙂. I was above trying to explain how fatty liver and its progression to cirrhosis isnt always caused by diet. I was using you as an example of how it can be caused and persist from PCOS as well!

[Radnor in reply to JimmyJackson]

I had no idea how serious fibrosis was until I tried to get travel insurance! Didnt elp that the gastroenterology Dr ignored me totally after confirming I had to stop Metho.! My GP agreed I needed a 2nd opinion, as all my bloods come back normal. Methotrexate is favourite for the cause I was on it for 7 years for psoriasis. The Prof I saw for my second opinion told me psoriasis can cause fibrosis! I haven't drank for 15 years plus. I volunteered for an international trial for Etanercept. My body did not like it at all.Contracted EBV. Tried it again 3 years later Boy did my body reject it. By 2nd injection I was totally bedridden. Neurologist said it was a cytokine release. It can be fatal! It could be meds you have used but psoriasis is more serious than I ever realised. I am under an excellent dermatology unit at Salford Royal. I am taking zero meds for my psoriasis. Just Enstilar foam for topical use.I have searced constantly for a biologic that does impact on the liver or kidneys. I am in regular contact with Salford and mentioned Usteknumab. I got a yes about it but need to confirm with my Liver consultant . Sun and sea work brilliantly for me, forced myself to lie in the sun on the good days we have had. If I lived down there I would be on those fabulous beaches you have and floating in the clear blue sea. Thats 3 in a row with psoriasis Hazelx

[Hidden in reply to Radnor]

I have psoriasis as well. I really want them to refine the studies on the ties between it Hazel. I guess time will be needed for more definitive studies to come out. Glad you posted this ❤

[Radnor in reply to Hidden]

Thats what I meant by 3 in a row Phoenix lol.It would be interesting to know how many members have psoriasis. Fybromyalgia is another thing I have, I know several others have mentioned this too.Fybro and ME/CFS followed the EBV.

[Hidden in reply to Radnor]

Just didnt want to get left out.. i was pouting in the corner thinking you forgot to count me too Hazel.. 😢😢🙂🤣

[jojokarak in reply to Radnor]

I go Salford as well ☺️

[Radnor in reply to jojokarak]

Its categorised as outstanding, I choose to do a 40 mile round trip than go to a local hospital. They have always treated me as a person, not a hospital number.

[Radnor in reply to Radnor]

does not impact it should say.

[Hidden in reply to JimmyJackson]

NAFLD is the disease. It starts as simple fatty liver. If it advances then NASH which is an occurance within NAFLD where the fat causes the liver to become inflammed and thats where it starts to produce scar tissue (fibrosis). If NASH persits than the scar tissue continues until Cirrhosis develops.

So basically NAFLD is the umbrella disease and NASH is a chronic occurance of inflammation within that disease that is responsible for its progression.

[10720]

Thanks all, I'll see how the vitamin E helps. I do weigh more than I would like but I think that is the effect rather than the cause, from very low energy levels

[Woodystar]

Exactly the same here, was diagnosed with nafld a couple of years back, good diet etc then my kidneys followed and now diagnosed with CkD. Alt score was double it should be for months. It turns out it's been my cholestrol levels all along which are raised due to familial hypercholesteremia the genetic form of high cholesterol which can't be changed by diet alone, and with moderate excercise (I also have fibromyalgia) even on a good diet my total cholesterol was 7.9 with the ldl over 5.

I now take low dose naltrexone which has helped with pain and inflammation and started on atorvastatin 6 months ago. Liver Alt dropped and was 30 at last test. Lipid consultant in Hull has now sent my blood for genetic testing so we can maybe check the rest of my family for it too.

I would say get your cholesterol checked and look at your family history.

[10720 in reply to Woodystar]

Yes, cholesterol results in the same blood panel were high, although it wasn't a fasting blood test. In the past I have got it down with garlic tablets (one of the few herbal remedies that has undergone clinical trials). One site I found suggested garlic could help with liver problems as well, don't know whether that has been tested

[donaldsgirl]

Hello everyone. Just want to say that I have suffer badly from psoriasis for 50yrs and have used gallons of steroid ointments over the years. My nash has now progressed to cirrhosis. There MUST be a link. Hope you all are having as good a weekend as pos.

Jacquie

[Hidden in reply to donaldsgirl]

We gotta blow the roof off this mystery! The medical world is working to slow on understanding the link for my liking. We gotta push this ourselves a bit I think. To the laboratory! (So to speak)🙂

[donaldsgirl]

Ps I now have stelara injections every 3 months (a biological) which has cleared my psoriasis...Oh joy!

[54Apple54]

Hi ,you could look up YouTube,fasting mimicking diet dr Longford or intermittent fasting has definitely helped me ,along with the faithful apple cider vinegar ginger and golden tea ,good luck with your health quest.

[Bijouvert]

Hi, I was in the same position despite eating healthily.. just wondering if you have had a thyroid test - I was eventually diagnosed with hypothyroidism. There is a strong relationship between NAFLD and hypothyroidism - My thyroid tests were showing 'normal' so all my symptoms were ignored until the final blood test was showing well over the guidelines. I'd recommend always getting a full print out of your results, as is your right. HealthUnlocked thyroid help is amazing if you need any advice.

All best wishes x