Palmer Erythem ?? Liver ?? Advice??

So in June of 2018 my doctor diagnosed me with Palmer Erythema. I used to be a binge drinker until recently. My question is how accurate are metabolic panels and overall blood work? I even did an ultrasound and my liver and kidneys all came back good. They have also tested my blood for I think just about everything they can test for and everything seems to be fine. I have also noticed since this had occurred my hands and feet are always sweaty as well. Just gets annoying. And my right hand is more noticeable then my left by far. Any advice?

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Palmer eurythmia is not always related to the liver. It's possible its cause by something else. Palmer eurythmia can also be genetic.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Just confused why all my tests are normal then. Blood work done 3 times in a year all have been normal and ultrasound showed good blood flow and no blockage. Just confusing

[farranccc in reply to Hidden]

I presume this should say ‘Palmer eurythmia is NOT always related to the liver...’

[Hidden in reply to farranccc]

Lol! indeed it should say that. Correction made.

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If it is Primary Palmer eurythmia where as there is no underlying cause. Then blood work would be normal. Most doctors believe that Primary PE is caused by changes in hormones like estrogen. So a normal blood test or liver panel would not show anything and scans definately wouldnt show anything either if the cause is indeed primary and not secondary to another disease.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Good news is that it itself is not a harmful condition.

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Dang ok, that makes me feel a little better. You seem to know quite a bit, could ther be a liver issue that for some reason just isn't showing up on blood work or ultrasound?

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It is definately possible to have a liver issue that "hides" in early stages. However though, palmer eurythmia secondary to liver disease doesnt happen in early stages. It is a symptom that though doesnt occur in all patients, only occurs in people with quite advanced disease. Typically in advanced cirrhosis. Advanced cirrhosis is not something that would be missed. Scans would show changes in the liver architecture and blood work would likely be deranged. Not only that but you would have some quite obvious symptoms.

I'm not sure the extent of the blood work you have had done. But I would ask the doctor to check for other etiologies indicating liver just incase like Wilson's disease or Heamochromatosis. Additionally perhaps look into possible diabetic markers, or Endocrine/nutritional possibilities like thyroid issues.

Basically I'd just tell the doctor that hes almost suggesting that this is a Primary PE and you want to check for any other possibilities just to confirm that to be true for your own peace of mind. If you develop any other symptoms let him know but otherwise as I said the PE itself causes no harm.

Hope this helps!

- Phoenix

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All this is pretty new to me so I definitely appreciate your time and info. My most recent blood tests they did CBC with differential reflex, comprehensive metabolic panels, Iron/TIBC/Ferritin panel, Ceruloplasmin, Hemoglobin A1c, vitamin D, ANA Titer, APTT, TSH/Feflex FT4, lipid panel. Abdomen ultrasound, neck ultrasound. Everything came back normal except Tryglycrides were high and cholesterol was a little high. Vitamin D barely low but runs in my family. Brought my triglycerides to normal . But everything else was normal. So if I had an underlying issue in your opinion would it most likely show in some of these tests? And what exactly is etiologies and endocrine?

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

Yeah definately something should have came up in that for sure if it was indeed a secondary cause. It really seems to be Primary PE. Personnaly I'd like the doctor to put it in writing though.

Apologies "etiologies" just means underlying cause(s). "Endocrine" refers to anything to do with the glands like the thyroid for example.

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Thanks alot for the info, definitely calmed me down a bit since I already have anxiety issues. Definitely going to remain cautious and keep on the sober side. Thanks again, much appreciated!

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

No problem anytime!

[GrandmaDylan in reply to Hidden]

I had palmer eurythmia and spider naevie long before my cirrhosis was picked up. The gp's kept ignoring my elevated inflammation levels and never investigated why they were higher than normal. I also think that all of my symptoms were put down to fibromyalgia.

[Hidden in reply to GrandmaDylan]

Oh believe me Grandma D I was thinking of you when writing this all. I think of you everytime someone posts that a doctor is telling them that their elevated liver enzymes are normal as well. Its angering that not only did you have chronically raised liver enzymes but also the palmer eurythmia and spider nevi and yet siltill they let it slide! Ridiculous to say the least! I think in this case with lack of elevated liver enzymes and any other seemingly abnormal.testing or symptoms its likely possible this may be primary palmer eurythmia. Of course as I suggested I'd make the doctor put that in writing at the very least!

[Hidden in reply to Hidden]

I'm hoping there's not something going on undetected. I started drinking at 18 probably 15-20 drinks a week till I was 20. Then quit for a year and a half. Started drinking at 22 again. I would binge friday-saturday most weekends and put down on avg 30-50 drinks in a 48 hour time frame. I'm 28 now so hopefully all those binge party weekends didn't get the best of me in the last 5 years.

[Wass71 in reply to Hidden]

Hi, Not wishing to be a pendant, but surely you guys mean erythema, superficial reddening of the skin and not Eurythmia, rhythmic movement!! ( it was correct in the initial question, but strangely everyone else had it wrong - auto correct no doubt??)

Hi Duke33-33,

Also this condition can be caused by environmental causes, have you started using any different products, or come in contact with a substance which could cause the hands to be red? You could ask about using a mild steroid cream or antihistamines. Ask your Doctor if that is a possibility. Sometimes things have the most simple solutions.

Take care and best of luck

[Hidden in reply to Wass71]

Yes Palmer Erythema. And yeah that is a good idea. I may have to ask about that. they have been red since June tHough as well and I really can't think of anything different that I've been aroun, however I was out fishing in June and my buddy and I had a stupid bet that if he caught the first fish I'd have to eat an earthworm. My hands in the pictures were normal and about a week later I noticed they we're red. I asked my doctor if it could be because of a parasite but they said no. So no idea that's the only thing I did out of the normal. Nasty I know.

[Hidden in reply to Wass71]

Lol spell correct indeed.

[GrandmaDylan in reply to Hidden]

Hi Phoenix. When I first saw my hepatologist and told him that I had asked several doctors what these spots were they all said they had no idea. Finally a locum gp referred me to a dermatologist. I had also asked for a hep c test as i had previously had two blood transfusions pre 1991 when they realised that some of the blood was contaminated with hep c and hiv. I was told several times that I would have had symptoms long ago. We now know this isn't true. People are still being diagnosed with hep c even now. The government are paying out hundreds of thousands of pounds in compensation. My hepatologist was absolutely disgusted that the spider naevie hadn't been picked up. He said that they're taught this at medical school. Somehow I always knew they were related to the liver and in fact it was the haematologist who actually realised what they were. I daren't think about the lack of care regarding my raised inflammation markers and how easily it would have been to stop my developing cirrhosis as I'd just go mad. My sister who is 14 years younger than me has just been told by letter that she had severe fatty liver, but hasn't been sent a follow-up appointment. I've told her to chase it up as she has an underactive thyroid, I had an overactive thyroid and we both have fibromyalgia. You would think that with all the obesity and diabetes being in the news that doctors would be more proactive in treating fatty liver before it goes too far for reversing it.

[Hidden in reply to GrandmaDylan]

That's crazy doctor's could do that. Can't you sue them for something like that?

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Hi Duke33-33,

Interesting. I have red palms and have had them for as long as I can remember - I'm 70 [which I ignore LOL] I think at one point I asked a doctor and he suggested it might be Palmer Erythema, but never actually diagnosed with it. It can also be a completely benign condition so just stay on top of your health and maybe make sure to get an annual physical and keep and track your blood work and stuff. For the most part blood work and metabolic tests are pretty accurate and doctors tend to watch for changes and other symptoms for a diagnosis.

Best wishes,

Mary

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Hi Mary, thank you for the advice, just weird how it came out of no where. I'll be getting tests done every few months for sure now that I'm sober, and planning on keeping it that way. Hopefully it's just idopathic or primary. But thank you again.