Symptoms of liver disease

[Careful1]

Hey all... curious to know if there is anyone here that is going through what I am going through.

Last year I started to notice some very funky things going on with my skin and a visit to the dermatologist suggested I might have liver disease. I have seen a liver specialist and have had a decent work up on my liver and the only thing that was found was an enlarged and fatty liver. The testing I had done... TONS of labs, liver function, hepatitis panel, tumor marker, autoimmune conditions that affect the liver, fibrosure blood test that gave me an F0. I had a ct scan of the abdomen without contrast, MRI of the abdomen with and without contrast, 2 abdominal ultrasounds and 2 fibroscans done 4 months apart. First one gave me KPA 4.6 and the second KPA 6.3 and an upper endoscopy.

None of my liver labs have ever been out of normal range since this started and everything else was normal as I said except for my liver being enlarged measuring 20cm and being fatty.

Still, I have 7 confirmed spider angiomas, confirmed palmer erythema in both palms, TONS of broken veins in my face, my skin has become increasingly thin. This time last year the only visible veins I had were in my wrist area and now you can trace almost every vein in my body it looks like and all over, legs, arms, hands, chest, neck, shoulders EVERYWHERE. I knew my dr would likely think I was crazy saying that and so I started to take weekly photos of my body so I wouldn't get the "they were probably always there and you never noticed before" even though I'm not the only one who has noticed.. it's just getting scary at this point.i can deal with the other skin issues but these veins are making me very subconscious and it's just scaring the crap out of me how fast they are showing up. I am having dizzy spells daily and several times a day.

After all my testing came back good I really tried to just do what I had to do to get rid of the fatty liver and investigate other things that could be causing my symptoms but everything leads right back to my liver even the drs. Every dr I have seen since has suggested liver disease even though i tell them my liver has already been checked. Ik sure my insurance is tired of paying for liver function tests by now.

So, I saw a nuerologist today about my dizzy spells and he had my hold my arms out palms up and he noticed my red palms and asked me if I drank which I dont and havent in over 8 years now and I told him about everything else but that it was found my liver was okay and he snickered and said "you have spider angiomas, palmer erythema, an enlarged liver... you need to find a new dr" and so his words are bothering me tonight. Everytime I try to put the liver issue to bed something like this happens. I already have a hard time believing my liver is okay when I have so many symptoms of liver disease.

Is there anyone here who has gone through this before? Found any answers? I am 36 years old and have 3 kids. Every night I wonder if any dr will figure out what's wrong with me before its too late. This is all just really scary and it's starting to really take a toll in every aspect.

Any advice?

[Teds123]

Hey mate....I am in the same boat as you....the mind problems you describe could be h.e. Which is due i a build up of toxins in the body due to the liver not functioning correctly...I seem to get that....I also have the red palms, weird brown rashes amongst a million other symptoms and like you I have had a fibroscan, ultrasound, ct scan, mri scan and just last week I had a biopsy of my liver...all tests came back normal but I am equally as concerned as like you I am a father...the symptoms that you describe are end stage liver disease and I certainly like to think and hope that with all the testing you have had done, surely these tests would detect disease at such an advanced level which is reassuring but I know the doctors know best...if it’s any consolation, my symptoms are similar to youres and my testing is the same as youres....3 liver specialists have assured me it isn’t liver disease....although it is no consolation when you aren’t feeling well....perhaps push for a biopsy for more piece of mind...

[carmik]

I suggest you ask to be referred to a liver transplant unit fir a 2nd opinion.

It is youre right to do so.

Good luck

[Hidden]

The spider angiomas and palmer erythema can be symptoms of cirrhosis but for you to have cirrhosis even in the early stages you would expect that the FibroScan & fibrosure tests would have picked it up & your test results indicate that you have neither fibrosis nor cirrhosis. Your normal blood tests results indicate that your enlarged fatty liver isn't inflamed so you don't have NASH which is something to be thankful for. Something must have caused your liver to become so enlarged. Fatty liver is usually a result of poor lifestyle choices which you can do something about.

If I were in your situation I'd do everything I could to reverse the fatty liver:

-Gradually get your weight down to the normal BMI range.

-Eat a healthy diet.

-Exercise regularly and be more active.

-Lower your cholesterol if it's high.

-Avoid anything that might stress your liver.

The only other test that you could have to check the health of your liver is a biopsy. Given your good FibroScan & fibrosure test results it would be surprising if a biopsy showed significant fibrosis or cirrhosis & a specialist might be reluctant to order a biopsy because your FibroScan & fibrosure test results were so good. There is a possibility however that because your liver is significantly enlarged & fatty that the FibroScans you had didn't accurately measure the stiffness of your liver as reflected in the fairly large difference between your two FibroScan scores despite the tests being only 4 months apart.

You may just be placing too much importance on the presence of the spider angiomas and palmer erythema when all of your tests point to your only problem being an enlarged fatty liver that you can do something about with lifestyle changes. To put your mind at ease it might be worth seeing a new specialist for a second opinion & suggesting a biopsy given the presence of the spider angiomas and palmer erythema & your liver being both enlarged & fatty. A liver biopsy may be the only reliable way of determining the true health of your liver.

[Careful1 in reply to Hidden]

Thank you for your response. The only thing I can think of is the first fibroscan I had was AFRI or ARFI it's a fibroscan but looks at the entire liver and the 2nd one I had was the normal one that thumps your side and for that one the tech had a very hard time getting readings. She tried for a good 45 mins. Out of the 10 valid measurements the highest was KPA 8.0.

I am not sure which technique is more reliable. The first one was end of October and the 2nd was in February. I have been holding onto orders for another but didn't really see a point in having it done so soon.

Perhaps I will get another appt with the heptatologist I saw. Miami University is the only place anywhere near me and even that's over a 2 hour drive that accepts my insurance.

[Lynnylynster]

Hiya, yes similar situation here, 35 years old PE on palms, jaundice, lots if broken capillaries and vein but under breasts on ribs and legs. Itchy skin.....

US normal in March, bilirubin only high now. I got really sick in November following antibiotic treatment, thrown into Jaundice, lost nearly two stone by December unable to eat stay awake at, horrendous. I was a lucky one and now 7 months later almost recovered thank goodness.

Do you have any other conditions because it has now been suggested to me that menopausal symptoms and endometriosis can contribute to such symptoms especially Palmer and spider viens. Endometriosis causes /produces excessive amounts in estrogen and this is known factor of PE. The fluctuations of perimenopause/menopause, also taking oral contraception, aging and excessive sun exposure, use of sunveds not protecring skin etc...can cause spider anginomas and PE can cause symptoms too. Also to note, if you are asthmatic, then Salbutamol reliever blue inhaler and use of Salbutamol can cause PE too. I hope this reassures you as these are far less of a worry.

You should ask to be referred to with upper GI or Hepatolagist for definitive results.

I have endometriosis, going through early menopause and take a lot Salbutamol for asthma, my symptoms are most likely caused by this.

Good luck from a Mother to one x

[macha26]

I am also going through the same things..I have all the symptoms which you mentioned and even a weightloss but not able to find in tests..hope you found your cause by this time

[Careful1 in reply to macha26]

I haven't

[Careful1 in reply to macha26]

Have you been diagnosed with liver disease? Do you have all the same skin symptoms as me?

[macha26 in reply to Careful1]

Still I haven't diagnosed with liver disease and in my blood test lft were off the chart.I have all the skin symptoms which you mentioned..and moreover I have gastritis and weightloss too..so gp had said to wait for an year and redo the tests .let me know if you found cause for your skin problems ...I can see veins on my palms too which is disturbing a lot

Thanks

[Careful1 in reply to macha26]

I have veins on my palms too but more disturbing is that they are ALL over my body... I was never able to see my veins through my skin and out of no where in just a short time they popped up everywhere. Its very very disturbing to go through something such as this and have no answers.

I will certainly let you know if I ever get any answers.

[macha26 in reply to Careful1]

Ya..I can understand..and I have indigestion too and not able to eat hard and spicy food

Thanks

[Careful1 in reply to macha26]

Could you possibly have an ulcer? My mom has one and she has really bad indigestion, she also can't tolerate spicy food and a host of other things as well.

[macha26 in reply to Careful1]

I had an endoscopy which came out clear so gp had said not to worry ..but it's been 9 months still I am going through the same symptoms ..