Does someone has the ideal number of Vit D in blood test for women over 65? Some says 60ng/ml other says much more.
Ideal blood vit D: Does someone has the... - Bone Health and O...
Ideal blood vit D
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Verauk
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Hi Verauk, I am 59 and last time I was tested my vitamin D was 61, my specialist said that was still a bit “low” and ideally I have to reach between 80 and 100. I hope this helps. Have a great day
Is that ng/ml or nmol/L? It tooks like nmol/L since 100 ng/ml is out of range (high) for the tests I have. 80 nmol/L == 32 ng/ml which is consistent with what I dimly recall my bone doc telling me. I think I was told 40 ng/ml. I am actually at 44ng/ml but it took 5000iu daily to get there. Most people are more responsive.
It is ng/ml. I take 20.000 u.i. once a week after a “fatty” lunch so I am doing on a Sunday! It took me 8 months to arrive to that. However my specialist would like me to improve in the 80-100 range. In Italy where I reside 30-100 is considered sufficient but with low bone density I was told that I need to reach the upper band. I also introduced K2 vitamin 200mcg a day. It all seems to work as my bone metabolism is good.
I agree. Maybe her unit is nmol/l
Hi there, the results are in ng/ml as per the photo.
Blood exam results
V helpful Cilla. I think the UK is too conservative on D.
I think so. Here in Italy they lowered the starting level to get the free supplement from 20 down to 10 ng/ml as it was too expensive for the health system, but low vitamin D is one of the main factor for low bone density so why wait for the damage to occur?
Yes, and I suspect they may be underestimating in the UK the amounts needed by the pregnant, children, teenagers. A lot of bone health is maybe built in youth - and parents don't realise.
I agree
60ng/ml is the same as 150nmol/litre, which is the top of the recommended range in the UK. Rheumatologists here say aim for 75nmol/litre, which is 30ng/ml, but some experts say 100nmol/litre (40ng/ml) or even higher. If you're taking a high dose of vitamin D, it's recommended to take magnesium and vitamin K2 with it.
It is really low compared to Italy also considering that we get a lot more exposure to sunlight. I get K2 supplement, magnesium, vitamin c and collagen so far so good. 😊
How much UI of each( k2, Mg,and D3)?
The only "official" RDA I've seen for Vitamin K2 is Australia - 180 mcg. My capsules are 100 mcg so I take one capsule with breakfast and anotherr with evening meal.
Same as HeronNS I take 2 of K2 100 mcg in the evening after dinner, Mg is with others I can have a look tomorrow morning and D3 20.000 u.i. once a week after a rich meal ( a bit of fat helps) , so for me I have it after Sunday lunch. I also have 100% bovine collagen 15 grams (this builds the base where minerals will bond ) dissolved in a coffee at breakfast with 6 dried prunes and 7 almonds plus a Greek yogurt, protein are quite important as well. This has been tailored for me by my specialist and it seems working. I walk a hour from Monday to Friday at 9 mins/km and do some very light weight exercises for 20 mins. Have a nice evening
How do you discipline yourself to walk an hour a day? I know I should try but the pain puts me off pushing myself.
Fortunately I do not have pain but I am a bit lazy… However I like to walk and I picked a route that I like, my husband bought me an Apple Watch so I can monitor my progress and keep motivated. When it rains a turn on YouTube where there are plenty of videos for indoor walk. My specialist told me that osteoporosis feeds on immobility and this is a good motivation itself for discipline. A hour for 5 days a week is not much and you can split it, it is even better. If you start you won’t stop because you will also see your general fitness improve a lot!
Thanks so much for your reply, I hadn't thought of looking on you tube, it's when it's cold and wet, I've got a bit paranoid about slipping over.
Same here!
Would chair exercises help? Physio should guide.
Really pleased to see the recommendations about other bone health supplements, notably Vitamin K2. Recently dug out my Kobo and after finishing a book there I turned to Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox by Kate Rheame-Bleue, which I happened to get as an e-book several years ago. I highly recommend it. Especially in the face of alleged osteoporosis specialists who still claim there isn't evidence that Vitamin K2 helps prevent oseoporosis.
On the contrary, not only can it help maintain bone density, it can also help to *improve* bone density, as well as lower cardiovascular risks!
Hi HeronNS, this is very true. I can tell you that my bone metabolism markers are all working well, I am building new bone at a faster rate than loosing it after 8 months of this regimen. I am hoping that my low bone density was due to low d vitamin and my specialist suggests that something was not right with my collagen, it will take time and effort but I am positive. The best way is to get assessed for you case with a proper investigation of the personal root causes of low bone density and start a proper treatment. In my case anti-resorptive drugs were not going to solve it but anabolic once with no fractures are not prescribed and a very, very costly privately. Have a great evening
Cilla65 does you have osteopenia? Can you share your T scores? Does you take any of Osteoporosis drugs as well? What are they? Thanks a lot
Unfortunately I am classified (dexa scores) as having osteoporosis -4 in lumbar and osteopenia -2 in the hips. No fracture so far and only discovered after a screening. Never broke a bone in my life. I did have a very low vitamin D. I also had a REMS scan which showed a -2.9 in my lumbar but it also estimated that I have a very low fracture risk in the next 5 years. Found a very good specialist and he run all the blood and urine tests and they are all good so he gave me only supplements and told me to keep exercising: brisk walks and light weights. He explained that anyway low bone density is a risk factor for fracture but not a certainty for fracture. I will have another dexa in June, he recommended a centre, as he found a few anomalies in mine last one. He did not prescribed me drugs at the moment and I hope to keep it that way🤞. Have a nice evening!
Do you know how they measure risk of fracture? My spine was only -0.5 and yet I've fractured 6 vertebrae!!
No I dont, what I have seen in some publications is that there are two parameters to be evaluated one is that bome density and bone strength are not the same. I need to go deep on this, and maybe you can ask you doctor also. Or other people here can talk about it.
REMS. or the TBS software in the dexa scan measure the quality of bone, and not only the quantity, by taking into consideration the internal structure. For what I have understood, dexa scans are the reference exam for an osteoporosis diagnosis but they can underestimate the issue, for instance when a person is arthritic, or overestimate for small boned persons. There are many factors that can cause low bone density beside aging and if you do not solve the primary problem you won’t be able to effectively manage the progress of the condition. I had to go private to have a proper understanding of what is wrong with me and i am currently trying to solve my underlying issues low vitamin D and a probable collagen deficiency which caused me two sudden retina ruptures in two years (2021-2022,) since I assume collagen my oculist was very pleased with the improvement in my vitreous and no more ruptures (and I am too!!!). I wish you all the best.
Thanks for the reply Cilla, r u in UK? Who did you find to help you? I can't complain about the care I've been given but must admit I'd like to delve deeper to find out why it's happening. The odd thing is I had used a vibro plate for years, I'd hefted large rolls of fabrics around in our shop for years and also bales of straw and hay so had done loads of weight lifting right up until my fractures.
There's no way I can stand in the vibro plate now, it's too painful, but it really does make me question when people suggest it helps bone strengthen, the same with lifting weights.
So that brings me to my diet.
In the past I was addicted to Pepsi Max, easily drinking a couple of bottles a day, it was a way of keeping my weight under control, and personally, I think that's what did the damage. But if I can add something in to my diet that will help I'm really interested in trying to understand how to get better.
Xx
Hi. CinnamonRose, I am residing in Italy. The specialist gave me a list of things to do to improve my bone health. I had to change my lifestyle by introducing brisk walking and exercise and I had also to change my dietary by introducing more protein (yogurt, dried fruit, seeds, beans, salmon etc) but also through bovine collagen. I increased the intake of vitamin C with fruit (I like oranges, mandarins and love kiwis 😋 actually regarded is the best fruit for bones) . He also prescribed me vitamin D and K2, plus MSM and homeopathic miltiorrhiza (from Chinese medicine) supplements. So far my blood and urine tests have very promising results (such as low CTX and medium-high osteocalcin and bone coenzyme). My next check will be in June 🤞🏻!
That sounds like you've got a good Dr 😊
Hope so! 😀
Hi Cilla65. You mention that you are now building more bone than breaking it down—and that your CTX values are low. Are you also tracking your blood P1NP levels? I am interested in how the two marker values change when bone QUALITY shifts toward healthy. I read that drugs that slow bone breakdown typically reduce both CTX and P1NP values—which doesn’t make sense to me and suggests creating old brittle bone. While drugs that claim to increase bone building raise P1NP values (haven’t read how they impact CTX values). I like your doctor’s approach. Few doctors in the US know about REMS or TBS and prescribe drugs based on DEXA bone DENSITY scores.
Hi Osteo2021!
I am not sure if I have an answer to your question. I am not taking a drug, and I never had, for osteoporosis. For what I know the bone building drugs increase osteoblast activity but also in a longer term osteoclast activity viceversa the other drug which suppress both the activities starting from the osteoclast’s. In my case the BTM were measured before recommending a drug and after a 8 months period of supplements and exercises. My specialist suggested that in my situation I do not have need them as my bone turnover is good and balanced with especially the CTX which is approx 0.250, he told me it was going to be very different with a level over 1.2. He suggested that I probably suffer of a collagen deficiency which in time did not provided the right “net” for the minerals to deposit therefore my low bone density. At the current time it seems that the mechanism restarted also thanks to taking bovine collagen (15gr) every day in addition to eating more proteins, other supplements and vitamins. I will have a new DXA in mid June to double check that this is working.
How you have checked your BTM, I mean throught DEXA ou other exam?
Through blood and urine tests. I can send you the list. Xx
Please, send me! Thanks a lot
Hi, here is the list which includes tests
to check possible primary causes other than post menopausal:
Anti-transglutaminase antibodies
anti-gliadin antibodies
homocysteine
parathyroid hormone
Osteocalcin
25 OH Vitamin D
Serum calcium
CTX
bone alkaline phosphatase - based ostase
bone isoenzyme
Magnesium
ionized calcium
24-hour urine collection for calciuria
Cilla65 Thanks for sharing the blood analysis. Some of then I do once a year, but some as osteocalcin and bone isoenzyme was never required.
I will talk with my doc in Mach , in my next return.
Is so good to have the chance to interact with you here in this Health forum. Thank you all to take time and share experiences with us.
Thank you for your quick reply. Your response is helpful. My CTX values are much higher than yours, but my P1NP values are also high. It seems logical to me that high breakdown and high buildup would balance each other out--but I may misunderstand. My new doctor suggests that my high CTX values--along with my poor DEXA scores--are additional evidence that I should be on drug therapy. My REMS scores--particularly my fragility scores--are more positive. Sadly, she hadn't heard of REMS. I didn't get a chance to ask her about my P1NP values. From what I've read, blood markers are recommended for measuring treatment success versus initial diagnosis.
Yes, I do understand that this is the general recommendations mostly due to the fact that are really “personal” so difficult to apply for a general screening even though less invasive. But my specialist because that DEXA does not predict alone the fracture risks does value this testing and REMS before starting therapy. The bone metabolism is a balancing act but high BTM are usually seen as not good news, however high bone turn over is typical of young age so it leaves me perplexed why. My specialist believes that a person can lower her/his CTX with natural product and I just listened to one of his success story. His therapy combination, including impact exercise, is tailored to each patient and I hope to become one of success story. I think drug therapy becomes a very long journey and sometimes not successful and it would be better to start it later in life. Take care
Thanks !!
To complete my answer above. I will also repeat these tests for my June consultation with the specialist. I am having a new DXA scan in June as my last one had plenty of mistakes; according to the specialist my L4 was not examined and the L3 was confused with the L4 therefore a domino effect on the rest plus the positioning of my body and my legs was wrong, so many inconsistencies. He has suggested to avoid big “commercial” medical centre and to prefer a well known specialist in the field also important for repeating DXA to mimimize technical errors by technician and not specialized doctors performing the scan.
I´m absolutely sure that my last DEXA also have inconsistencies, as it was performed in a hurry.....as never before. Does you live in London or nearby?
No, I am currently residing in Italy, my daughter lives in London.
I was sure, after the DEXA, that the specialist was going to prescribe me a drug as my GP suggested Prolia. I was pleasantly surprised that there are still other options and further investigations before starting a lifelong path of treatments with drugs. He also suggested that a concause could be my anxiety with cortisol running wild in my body.
So sorry...
The level of Vitamin D various with age and aliments. My medical laboratory will not set a high or low level as they do with other blood tests. Normal range seems to be between 30 and 100 ng/ml My doctor rated me as too high at 60 ng/ml. and I am now down to 51 mg/ml. I will see what she says next week. I am allergic to sunlight so I don't get any Vit D from that.
That is exactly what my doc says, and I have 67. But I have friends that her docs wants more than 70
ng/ml.
I'd like to stress one fact. While we definitely need Vitamin D to absorb calcium, we also definitely need Vitamin K2 in order for calcium to be properly taken into the bones. For this reason Vitamin K2 also is helpful in avoiding cardiovascular problems as it prevents calcium from being deposited on the wall of blood vessels or into soft tissues.
Our modern diet is deficient in Vitamin K2 because of changes in how we raise animals, which used to create K2 for us. Our own body converts far too little K1 into K2 so we'll likely need a supplement. Those who can regularly eat products of grassfed cattle or poultry, or find a supply of (and stomach!) the Japanese fermented soy called natto, are the lucky ones. The rest of us may get traces from fermented foods or aged cheeses, but won't be able to consume enough. Supplements of K2 are derived from natto.
HeronNS Thanks for these very good informations. I was thinking with myself: in my country we normaly pay for good doctors besides the fact that we have public healthy service. I thought I was luck enough to be able to pay for good doctors and I mean doctors that take time to observe you,to ask questions etc... HOWEVER , none of them prescribed me K2. I cant belive that. Calcium and vitD yes, bur K2 and Mg, not. They dont never ask a blood test to check it. Umbelievable.
In fact my daughter is a registered dietitian and she'd never heard about Vitamin K2 until I told her to read the book by Kate Rheaume-Bleue. I had a visit from an osteoporosis nurse after I broke my wrist in May, and her response when I mentioned Vitamin K2 was there was no evidence that it was helpful in treating osteoporosis.
However, this may all be because Vitamin K2 was not officially named until 2008, although it was called Factor X because although it was unknown it was obvious that some nutritional factor, or lack of it, was affecting people's health.
It takes a while for this kind of information to filter into the textbooks I think. One of my tests for the knowledge of medical specialists is, in fact, to ask them about K2. The only more or less positive response I've ever had was in a dentist's office, but even there when in earlier times I had complained about sensitive teeth no one mentioned that a Vitamin K2 supplement might help. Curing my sensitive teeth was an unexpected and welcome side effect of taking Vitamin K2 to help my skeleton!
By the way, it's a good idea to take calcium and magnesium supplements at separate times of day, different meals, to be sure that the magnesium gets absorbed. You can also get magnesium through a soak in a bath (or footbath if you are a shower person) with Epsom salts.
Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox has, apparently, been translated into seven languages:
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