Vitamin K2 and Vitamin D: The conclusion in this... - Bone Health

Bone Health
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Vitamin K2 and Vitamin D

HeronNS
HeronNS

The conclusion in this article should be of interest to anyone wanting to avoid osteoporosis drugs.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

"The use of vitamin D and vitamin K2 together as an approach to osteoporosis treatment may significantly reduce morbidity and mortality. This approach may rival bisphosphonate treatment without the side effects associated with the use of this medication, along with reducing vascular calcification and its complications."

39 Replies
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Boron's needed, too! :)

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/814...

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to BadHare

Lots of things needed. I had the misfortune to encounter a rheumatologist who said four studies had been done showing Vitamin K2 didn't help bones. I checked. The four articles she mentioned popped up readily in Google (this is about three years ago) but I noted they didn't seem to differentiate between VItamin K1 and Vitamin K2. So I dug a little deeper and found Japanese research which has found that K2 does help the bones. So it's really great to see research continues and vindicates those people who have been promoting the idea that we need Vitamin K2, and probably have to supplement it as it is lacking in the modern Western diet.

We are so far behind where I live that I cannot buy Vitamin K2 at the pharmacy, I still have to get it from a health food store!

BadHare
BadHare
in reply to HeronNS

I only found out about it from researching K1, which CK also writes about. chriskresser.com/vitamin-k2...

I eat my K2, which I try to do rather than rely solely on supplements. I drink an average 750mls of organic wholemilk dairy kefir a day, so assume that should be enough. If I'm away from home & can't take my tummy beasts with me, I'll seek out or take organic brie, though there are other cheeses that contain K2 such as roquefort & edam. A lot of people on this & other forums opt for a D3 & K2-MK7 combination in pill or spray form.

Making kefir is as easy as making a pot of tea or coffee once or twice a day, though being a live culture it needs to be kept at an ambient temperature like a pet. Starter grains are available online with the live (rather than powdered type that contains only lactobacillus) being better, though it needs more nurturing to revive it, & make it happy & taste good. It also needs organic milk so the antibiotics in standard milk don't kill the wee critters.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to BadHare

nutradian.com/blog/vitamin-...

But I'm lazy. Can't rely on kefir (even if I liked it enough to drink more than occasionally) to get enough of the right kinds of K2. Happy to take capsules made from fermented non-GMO soy (natto). Working for me!

Ange333
Ange333
in reply to HeronNS

Please can you tell me what is the product name of K2 that you take?

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Ange333

It's made in Canada so wouldn't help you. The kind I get is a capsule containing a powder but I believe there is another form, I haven't seen it, which may be better, where it's in an oily form, like the Vitamin D3 capsules I get.

Walkingdogs
Walkingdogs
in reply to Ange333

There’s a company, Just Vitamins that sells vitamin K2 mk 7

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Ange333

You want to make sure your product is not made with GMO - which it potentially could be as our supplements come from fermented soy. There will be a statement somewhere in the fine print, if not more obvious, that the product is from natural or non-GMO sources. Or if you live where GMO has to be labelled, no problems.

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to Ange333

Ange333 - Solgar makes a K2 mk-7 from natto extract, 100ug. It is free from sugar, salt and starch, gluten, wheat, dairy, soya, yeast, preservatives, sweeteners, artificial flavours or colours! Baldwin's, of Walworth Road, London SE1 have an online shop where you can buy actual natto to eat. I don't have a taste for it, and find the capsules so easy to take. Amazon can deliver to your door...

Justme13
Justme13
in reply to HeronNS

Thanks for that link. So, kefir won’t provide all k2 needed.

Was concerned re overdosing, as taking supplements and kefir.

Justme13
Justme13
in reply to BadHare

I’ve been taking k2 supplements for a while, but recently started making kefir, as friend gave me grains. Probably about 350ml a day.

K2 supplements 120 ug.

Am I overdosing? I didn’t know kefir contained k2.

BadHare
BadHare
in reply to Justme13

One of the reasons I started drinking it was for B12 & K2. I make kefir with wholemilk, so the fat is there to help absorption. :) I drink about 700-800mls a day, so hope I get enough as I'm unsure of the dosage. If I'm away from home, I try to eat brie for K2.

Justme13
Justme13
in reply to BadHare

So, should I ditch the k2 if I’m taking kefir?

Can one overdose on k2?

BadHare
BadHare
in reply to Justme13

I'm not sure. I've just read this & don't feel any more enlightened: webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingre...

I'm happy with my kefir dose as I've no reason to think I'm not getting enough, but don't know whether your supplement is too much. Perhaps compromise & reduce this as your kefir grains grow & you can drink more.

Justme13
Justme13
in reply to BadHare

Thanks.

Maybe will ask if others have any input.

Will also ask my dietician.

BadHare
BadHare
in reply to Justme13

Let me know what they say, please!

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to BadHare

That link seems to only be talking about K1. Maybe this would be more useful|?

healthline.com/nutrition/vi...

BadHare
BadHare
in reply to HeronNS

Thanks HeronNS !

This is the first article I came across re K2, when I was looking for K1 information:

chriskresser.com/vitamin-k2...

There are several others on CK's website.

I'm wondering if I need more than my dietary intake, & if Justme13 is taking too much.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to BadHare

Personally I have never heard that we can actually get enough Vitamin K2 from diet these days let alone too much. People eating natto in Japan are taking in far more than our supplements provide. If you can get hold of Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox by Kate Rheaume-Bleue it will answer your questions. Very good book.

BadHare
BadHare
in reply to HeronNS

Sounds intiguing!

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to BadHare

It's now available as an audiobook, as well as hard copy and ebook!

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to HeronNS

IHeronNS, have just read a study that shows Vitamin K mk-4 to be protective against fractures whereas Mk 7 was not shown to be so. I have only found vitamin K Mk-4 for sale (Amazon) at about 4 times the cost of Solgar Mk 7, and even then, the study cites a dose of 45mg daily, whereas the costly caps are 5mg. Have you come across this study? Now I shall try to trawl backwards and find a reference for the study...

Hidden
Hidden
in reply to Hidden

oh dear... nbi health.com commentary on studies but references to these not given...

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Hidden

It is natto, source of mk-7, in Japan which led researchers to discover the bone health properties of Vitamin K2.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to Hidden

The animal sources of Vitamin K2 from grass fed animals are almost certainly going to be mk-4. But Japanese research showed that mk-7 is effective.

Women in the north of Japan eat a lot of Natto and do not suffer osteoporosis but women in the south of Japan do not eat much Natto and suffer from osteoporosis more often so this triggered research in Japan since Natto contains a large amount of vitamin K2-MK7.

The Japanese diet is different from the western one. For example many Japanese people apparently are intollerant of dairy products so calcium is eaten in foods like tofu which is often fortified. Much of the islands are not conducive to pasture and therefore not suitable for raising dairy cattle so dairy products were not widely available in the past although this is changing.

Both the north and south of Japan have a high level of sunshine in the summer helping to prevent vitamin D deficiency.

ClarkB
ClarkB
in reply to Nanaedake

What is Natto? I eat tofu, and tempeh but not familiar with this.

Nanaedake
Nanaedake
in reply to ClarkB

Natto is a fermented bean. It's eaten with a little rice and a type of mustard. You can buy natto beans from oriental/Japanese supermarket in Western countries but probably only available in big cities. It's an acquired taste and if you haven't grown up eating it you probably won't like it. tsunagujapan.com/you-ll-get...

ClarkB
ClarkB
in reply to Nanaedake

I like tempeh, so perhaps I would like it! Haven’t seen it in my health food shop though.

ClarkB
ClarkB
in reply to Nanaedake

Thankyou for attachment. Very interesting.

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to ClarkB

I've never had natto (fermented soybeans) but I've heard it described as something which is slimy and crunchy at the same time. 🤢

ClarkB
ClarkB
in reply to HeronNS

Might like it- like crunchy, but not sure about slimy!

Nanaedake
Nanaedake
in reply to ClarkB

You need to eat it with sticky rice and mustard to make it palatable. A little Japanese, not Chinese soy sauce might help and then a miso soup to finish off with is nice.

Thanks HeromNS for another helpful post. Do you mind me asking do you take calcium in supplement form or do you rely on diet? I keep bouncing in an out of calcium supplements due to potential cardiovascular etc issues. Thanks!

HeronNS
HeronNS
in reply to annelii

I do take supplements. Have done since I hit middle age about three decades ago. Also Vitamin D. But I only added Vitamin K2 when I learned about it about three years ago. The calcium supplements I take are either calcium citrate in a formula which includes a couple of other things, like magnesium and D, and another which is calcium hydroxyapatite because that form of calcium is supposed to be better absorbed by people on prednisone. It includes many micronutrients supposed to be good for bone health. Small doses, two to three times a day. Harder when I'm taking iron supplements as I am right now because calcium interferes with iron absorption.

I don't think I get enough nourishment from my food, not sure why, but I've lost a lot of weight over the past few years, without trying.

Thank you so much for this post!

So interesting. I’d love to come off AA and use supplements only, but I’m afraid to. Thanks for posting this.

Thanks for this. I do find it hard to get enough calcium from food without more dairy than I’m comfortable with. I was taking Solgar bone support which has calcium citrate, malate and bisglycinate, but then when it ran out I lapsed as always. At the moment I’m taking magnesium, D3 and K2 separately and reckon I get enough boron from diet. I’m still ambivalent about calcium supplements but feel nervous about not taking them. It all feels like a bit of a lottery despite all the research!

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