How much K2?

[Jumpey]

Hello everyone. I've just bought a K2 complex supplements which includes MK4 and MK7. However I'm not sure how much to take.The bottle recommends one capsule which is 1250ug.But I'm not sure if this is enough to help with osteopenia.Can anyone help me with optimum dosage please?Cheers.x

[HeronNS]

As the dosage amounts for mk4 and mk7 are very different that single figure of 1250 is rather meaningless. mk4 is usually measured in milligrams and mk7 in micrograms as you need far more of the former than the latter, something to do with the way the body metabolises it, and mk7 remains present for longer. (Don't quote me on that )

[Met00]

The recommended dose is 45mg (45000mcg) of MK4 or 90-180mcg of MK7. Does the bottle tell you the breakdown of the two?

[Jumpey in reply to Met00]

Umfortunately not.Also I have no idea what the difference is between ug and mcg.x

[Met00 in reply to Jumpey]

ug and mcg are the same, micrograms, not to be confused with mg, which is milligrams. There are 1000mcg in 1mg.

[Met00]

Why did you take so much? Have you read evidence in support of this amount?

[Met00]

Hello Londinium. My ultrasound scan probably didn't show an improvement in bone density, rather that the previous DEXA scan results for my spine were wrong. 18 months ago my spine score from DEXA was -3.6, but the REMS ultrasound scan in November gave me a score of -2.6. My hip score was more or less the same (-2.5 DEXA, -2.6 REMS). I've no way of knowing what my spine score started at 5 years ago, but assuming it was similar to my hip (-2.3) then I've lost a little bone density, but less than the average expected loss of 1% per year. The last couple of years I've been taking high dose Vit D (finally got my D blood level over 100nmol/litre about a year ago), now taking 4000iu daily, but everyone is different, some will need much less than this, some more, only regular blood tests will tell you. I take 200mcg K2-MK7, 6mg boron, a little magnesium glycinate (anything between zero and 200mg, depending on how much my stomach is complaining!), 15mg zinc, 500mg Vitamin C, get lots of calcium and magnesium in my diet, and drink about 1/2 litre Volvic water daily for its silica content. I eat a healthy, very low sugar diet, with hardly any caffeine or alcohol, including daily kefir, nuts and seeds. And I'm working on increasing my exercise, when other injuries (non-osteoporosis related) allow! When all is well, I try to get out for a 30-40 minute brisk walk 4-5 times a week, often wearing a weighted vest, exercise with weights and resistance bands, and do some jumping, skipping and dancing. Most of the exercise (apart from walking) is a recent addition. I've also just started taking strontium citrate (340mg 3-4 times a week), because I'm not convinced that my regime will ever increase my bone density (as opposed to slowing down bone loss, particularly as I have to keep restricting exercise) and I believe the studies that show strontium can help put more calcium in the bones and reduce fracture rates.

[Met00]

I took risedronate for a year after diagnosis, but stopped due to side effects and haven't taken any medication since. At the next DEXA scan my t-scores were worse.

[HeronNS]

I had heard that Australia recommends 180 mcg daily of Vitamin K2-mk7 but have not been able to find the reference. I do know when you read about dosage for mk4 it is very much higher because it is not as bioavailable as mk7. The body will convert its own mk4 from mk7.

I take two 100 mcg capsules of mk7 per day and there is also a small dose of both kinds in one of the calcium supplements I take. The likelihood of toxicity from Vitamin K2 is very low.

[HeronNS]

I don't think there's any way a modern human can rely on their gut to create enough vitamin K2.

[Met00]

That's a lot of K2 and boron. I've read that the upper safe limit for boron is 20mg per day. More isn't always better, for example too much Vit A can be as damaging to bones as too little, and with some vitamins and minerals you risk really bad side effects and/or toxicity if you take too much. I know there are those who advocate taking much higher doses than is normally recognised, but personally I wouldn't want to risk it.

[HeronNS]

As we get older we can't even rely on making enough Vitamin D in our skin.

[HeronNS]

You have to get the MK-7 first. I didn't say the body makes its own vitamin K2. I should have said "convert".

[jamr in reply to HeronNS]

Natto - fermented soybeans - are the best source of K2 MK7. Its available from most Asian supermarkets in 45g/1.6oz sachets. There is supposed to be around 450mg K2 MK7 in each 45g sachet according to 'Vitamin K2 and the Calcium Paradox'. I cannot recall the exact source but work on the premise that 150mg is RDA so I take a sachet every 3 days. As a fat soluble Vit it stays in the system. I also eat pate, cheese and butter and a calcium supplement so getting additional K2 MK4. K2 Calcium paradox is a an easy to read book, good idea also to read comments on Amazon from other readers.

[HeronNS in reply to jamr]

I've had Kate Rheaume-Bleue's book on my Kobo for about five years! Don't know of any Asian markets near where I live. I have heard natto described as being both crunchy and slimy at the same time. 🤢🤣

Perhaps you meant this as a reply to Jumpey ?

[jamr in reply to HeronNS]

Actually I replied to your conversation due to your comments on MK7 MK4 etc. Getting hold of natto might be easier than you imagine, it took me a while to find a couple of shops that carry stock and I pick up every few weeks. I heard of a lot about the smell and taste before I tried it myself and my family are not impressed by smell and wont taste it, but I find it pleasant enough on its own or mixed with rice, or avo. Its certainly sticky and slimy but the beans are quite soft. Part of the experience is the knowledge you are adding K2 to you diet very cheaply. In Perth the cost is less than $1 every 3 days as a block with 4 packs is around $3.50. In Australia, Asian supermarkets carry a good range of Asian foods including Japanese.

[HeronNS in reply to jamr]

I'm sorry, the description of natto is so disgusting I have no interest in finding it. I seem unable to eat any pulses any more, not even peanuts, unfortunately. Possibly fermented soybeans would be digestible for me, if I could get them past my nose and mouth. If anyone ever offers them to me I'll try them. Not going out of my way to find them. But thanks for your comment. The mk7 supplements are derived from natto

As for price : healthyplanetcanada.com/nat...

[Fracturegirl]

I take 45 mg of K2-4. That’s 45000 mcg which is how it’s measured. This is the dose used in the Japanese study that worked.

[Met00]

I've seen it in a number of places. See for example webmd.com/vitamins/ai/ingre... (click on the link for doses if it takes you to the front page)

[Collywobbles64]

The only studies done re dosage that I know of was with mk4 by the Japanese. They used 45mg of mk4 which is 45,000mcg.

[HeronNS in reply to Collywobbles64]

That's interesting, because it's Japanese researchers who say natto could be considered a genuine superfood for its Vitamin K2 content and it actually provides mk-7!

[Collywobbles64 in reply to HeronNS]

Maybe it has something to do with cost and the amounts required to make a difference. I take MK7 myself.

[jamr in reply to HeronNS]

Since natto provides K2 MK7 and this can be converted into MK4 by the body, I assume minimal MK4 is required in the diet anyway and since natto is so high in MK7 dont see much need to consciously supplement with anything else.

[Met00]

The next sentence in the paper recommends 1-3mg boron. In the article I gave the link to, if you click on "Side Effects" it says the following: "Boron is POSSIBLY UNSAFE for adults and children when taken by mouth in high doses. Large quantities of boron can cause poisoning. Signs of poisoning include skin inflammation and peeling, irritability, tremors, convulsions, weakness, headaches, depression, diarrhea, vomiting, and other symptoms." It also gives some specific warnings, including the following: "Hormone-sensitive condition such as breast cancer, uterine cancer, ovarian cancer, endometriosis, or uterine fibroids: Boron might act like estrogen. If you have any condition that might be made worse by exposure to estrogen, avoid supplemental boron or high amounts of boron from foods."

[HeronNS]

This is another interesting article: healthfirstnetwork.ca/blog/...

[Fracturegirl]

I am taking K2 Menatetrenone made by Relentless Improvement. Rack tiny capsule contains 15,000 mcg of MK4. I take one with each meal. That way I get 45,000 mcg. Which equals 45mg each day. I can’t remember exactly where I read the study. I belong to several OP pages and read all of the studies posted.

[Collywobbles64]

Sorry I don't.

[Collywobbles64]

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/237... Just went on-line and found this.

[Fracturegirl]

I found it on Amazon.

[Cocosa]

Also remember that A, D and K2-vitamins work together and that we need a correct balance between them. I read something interesting (sorry, I don’t remember where right now) that our body convert other forms of K2-vitamins into MK-4 and that is why we definitely need MK-4.

[HealthBuddyMelissa]

I learned something new today. Thank you for sharing this very important information.

[jamr]

Read the article, 'there is nothing boring about Boron', for a good view on this ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/267...