Vitamin K2

Hi, this is my first posting here. Diagnosed with osteoporosis 3 years ago and reluctantly taking Alendronic Acid. Does anyone know if I can enhance things by taking Vitamin K2 with the bisphosphonate. Thanks. Found lots of inspiring discussion since I joined.

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  • I take K2 alongside an OP drug but not AA. I also take boron, magnesium, iron bisglynate, multi vitamin, cod liver oil capsule and vit D (that is prescribed by the GP). I have enough calcium in my diet and the GP agreed after a consult with him. No idea if the K2 or any of it does any good though. Gets expensive. ;) I also walk quite a bit each day and generally exercise. Just makes me feel a little more in control if that makes sense.

  • Thanks Kaarina. I take a multivitamin and flaxseed oil, plus the calcium and Vitamin D prescribed by GP to go along with the AA. I walk everyday or do some step aerobics and stretching exercises just to try to keep going, and like you say it makes you feel as though you have some control over the situation. Had a disappointing DEXA scan result so hence trying to think of possible alternatives.

  • Please let me know which magnesium and boron you have? There are different types of magnesium which confuses .I have osteoporosis I and take alendronic acid. Thinking to stop AA as heard a lot negative reviews.

  • I take 6 mg of Boron which I purchase from Swanson. You can eat about 8 - 10 prunes per day instead. I was doing this but even with taking them at different times of the day, they upset me and I LOVE prunes. At the moment i am taking magnesium glycinate capsules but only two per day although it says two tablets, two or three times daily.I purchase these from nutri advanced. I do not know if this is right or enough but that is what I am doing at the moment.

    There are a lot of negative views on AA, in fact negative views on all the OP drugs on offer, as far as I can see when I read up about the side effects and read people's experiences.

    On the other hand those that find an OP drug that suits them and improves their T scores are probably getting on with their lives and not spending time on forums. ;)

  • Thanks for this information. I just want to be on natural diet rather than on long term medication!

  • Prunes seem to be the most mentioned source of boron, but there are other, even better food sources. Here's one site with suggestions: 1mhealthtips.com/top-food-s...

  • Oh that is brilliant, Heron, thank you! I have recently started eating a small avocado daily to help with cholesterol levels to try to get it even lower so I am killing two birds with one stone then as it also contains boron. Yay! :)

  • Hello, I'm beginning to think I'm the herald of bad news when it comes to osteoporosis medication. Are you in England or the US?

  • England

  • Since you're England, I realize your wait is long for medical care and your choices are fewer than for many of us in the US.

    This tablet has been around for quite awhile, and seeks to change your body's natural loss of bone because your body is not producing

    enough new bone to replace it. It is a caustic pill that must be taken with while sitting up or standing and before eating anything for a hour. No other medications can be taken at during that time. (Is a pain in the ass for working women due to morning schedules)

    It can cause problems such esophagel irritation and stomach issues due to its' caustic nature. The longest time recommended is 3-5 years I believe. It won't relieve pain in osteoporosis or heal any fractures. Due to possible jaw bone loss and lose teeth, a dental work is recomended before starting it. It is probably the most widely used bisphosphonate medication in the US for osteoporosis prevention, but isn't the medication of first choice if there has already been a fracture... or you are high risk for fracture.

  • Thank you for taking the time to reply. This makes depressing reading and I am even more worried about taking AA now, although I was aware of the horrendous side effects. I think perhaps I need to discuss a change with my GP!

  • I took it for a few years as well as my sisters, with dexagrams (bone scans every two years), but we are all on more aggressive meds now ......all to osteoporosis meds have side effects. My rheumatologist put me on "holiday from it several years ago and I had a fracture during that time. So now I am on Forteo (Forsteo) and one of my sisters is on Prolia. Both can have side effects. The jaw bone loss reported on some sites for AA is 1 in 1,000. Don't know how accurate that is. Very large amounts of D3 (the "sunshine" produced vitamin D) was used with AA when it was first studied and evaluated here....because it helps with the absorption of calcium.

    Because Forteo can cause an elevation of calcium in the blood and increases of other supplements, the only supplement I can take is D3 2000IU daily, and not even K2 or a multivitamin.

    You just have to weigh the risks ith the advantages of the meds before deciding which to choose. Your weight bearing exercise and diet are very good from what I read and of course we are told to do so too. The meds can't work if we don't.:)

  • Actually, PTSDforyears, D3 can't get the calcium into the bones - Vitamin D3 and magnesium do that - hence problems people have with kidney stones, heart issues, etc, when on long term high doses of calcium. Most of us are deficient in K2.

  • Please help me to understand what K2 is and does. I just got off the phone with Eli Lily asking about the use of K2. Was again advised only D3 was to supplement Forteo....no calcium, supplimental magnesium and was curious about why women were taking K2.

    Appreciate your input as I will call Eli Lily back about the magnesium and K2, and ask if the composition of Forteo contains either one of these. I know that calcium is definitely prohibited as the trial results showed risk of increase in calcium in the blood. Magnesium was not included in the test trials.

  • If you are allowed to consume any vitamins while on Forteo,and I hope you would be allowed to consume all of them, then there should be no questions about K2. It only needs to be supplemented because our food supply no longer contains enough. In the olden days with grassfed animals they made K2 for us, but grainfed animals are themselves deficient in K2. You can get it from the fermented Japanese soy called natto, if you can find it, and if you can stand it - I hear it is an acquired taste. Our K2 supplements are derived from natto. There is a lack of information about this vitamin, but you can read all about it in these books:

    Vitamin K2: The Missing Nutrient for Heart and Bone Health Paperback – Mar 18 2015

    by Dennis Goodman (Author)

    Vitamin K2 And The Calcium Paradox Paperback – Jul 23 2013

    by Kate Rheaume-Bleue (Author)

    Both available as ebooks as well.

    authoritynutrition.com/vita...

  • Thank you for responding. No, I'm not to take any vitamins with Forteo, only a high dose of D3. Not even a multivitamin, as it also frequently contains calcium and a variety of minerals, etc. and were not included in the test studies.Calcium was included in the test studies, but as the results showed an increase of calcium in the blood, that is not to be taken with Forteo. I really am beginning to wonder if the Forteo composition contains certain minerals, including magnesium.

  • Well, the thing is the problems with calcium are often a result of a lack of Vitamin K2 and magnesium, so this leaves me dumbfounded. It seems doubtful that vitamins and minerals would be part of the formulation without telling people, you'd think that would be a selling point! Is there a problem with food - packed full of vitamins as it is? If not, then try to get a source of grass fed animal products - dairy, especially butter, eggs, some kinds of cheese (brie, gouda), other fermented foods which help our gut produce its own K2. Note that even animals primarily grass raised but then "finished" with grain also become deficient in K2. It's becoming more widely known that if you're taking extra Vitamin D you really also need Vitamin K2. D enables our bodies to absorb calcium, but it does not direct that calcium into the bones, which is why extra D in the absence of K2 can cause problems with calcium.

  • Found this:

    What are the ingredients in FORTEO?

    Active ingredient: teriparatide

    Inactive ingredients: glacial acetic acid, sodium acetate (anhydrous), mannitol, metacresol, and water for injection. In addition, hydrochloric acid solution 10% and/or sodium hydroxide solution 10% may have been added to adjust the product to pH 4.

    From this page: uspl.lilly.com/forteo/forte...

  • It would appear that with all the OP drugs, one of the side effects is joint pain. This is with the exception of strontium ranelate which is to be discontinued in august I believe. I have enough joint pain and will not take the risk of perhaps encouraging even more severe joint pain especially as these OP drugs stay in your system so long.It really is a nightmare unless one decides not to take an OP drug and this is something that, for me, is probably not in my best interests to do.

  • Right,I pulled out all the Eli Lilly material I had and actually studied the chemistry graphics too, same results as you.

    I do eat not meat except for sea food and eat yogurt and drink "muscle milk" (a high protein nondairy supplement .... my bariatric (sp?) doctor recommended....I need to lose about 20 lb)

    Bottom line is I need nutritionist familiar with Forteo to counsel me. Have called Eli Lily and my doctor's office about this. do not want to end up wasting this valuable medication if my diet doesn't meet its requirements.

    Keeping up my walking everyday.

    Thank you for your interest in this matter. I really appreciate you.

  • I think trying to sort out what works best of each of us is so confusing and there are so many pitfalls with it all too. I am going to try some K2 in the hope it helps! Thank you for your comments.

  • I only read about K2 on this forum,so read up a bit..I do find all the figures difficult to understand tho (being 81 ) !! But I think what Imread was K2 helps shift the calcium into the bones from places where it shouldn't be and that it's best taken with the D3. After main meal as it works best with a little fat..I ve been trying that for a week or so..don't feel any different, bit no side effects so far..

  • I too find it all confusing Hather as I have read that you need to take it with fat but that if you have it with your main meal it will be "lost" in with everything else you are eating! I have gone a happy medium and take it with my lunch, hoping for the best. I think it will take a while to work, but I'm now concerned with the side effects I have read about - palpitations and anxiety being but two!!

  • Oh I wonder if I got that wrong taking K2 And D3 with or after main meal..I am getting more and more confused..hope I didn't tell you anything wrong if so I apologise.. I feel fine except not feeling hungry and very slow and difficult evacuation..a daily problem IBS,prolapse bowel and terrible wind..otherwise I am fine lol

  • Please don't worry Hather! I'm sure you need to take the D3 and K2 together but I have read up on so many different strengths and types of K2 being the best, when to take it and not to take it and I do think everyone is different in how they interpret what is the right way! I am so sorry to hear that you have bowel issues, yet another area you have to worry about when taking any medication!! You sound cheerful though, well done, and thanks for your comments. Good luck too.

  • K2-7 is a long-term solution but it really works. I had OP of my hip joint and lower spine and took K2-7 for around 8 months before having another scan at which time the OP had reduced so that the fracture risk was zero. Of course you need D3, zinc, magnesium and calcium as a minimum to go with the K2. I took a 600 mcg capsule daily during the 8 months and now find that there are lots of other minor improvements as well. It also helps to get rid of arterial plaque, wrinkles, brain plaque and varicose veins. I suspect that because of farm poicies, I shall be taking this for ever!

  • Hi aristotle 13.... I bought Vit K2 50 up from health shop..think this was the only strength they had.. very expensive nut I get Vit D3 on prescription. Dr had not heard of K2 tho. Just told me to check with pharmacy to see it did not interfere with Simvastatin or Levo..I have mainly stopped Omaprazole as this affects the bones causing the Osteoporosis ..catch 22 really. I have also started drinking Kefir full of probiotics and supposed to help the immune system.... but just too scared to take the AA..it's still I. The drawer 🙄 THanks for your reply

    HAther

  • Hi Hather, I get my k2-7 from Nutrizing via Amazon and the price didn't seem too bad - around £14 for three months. I'm not surprised that your doctor wasn't familiar with it since it was lost for around 60 years and is only just becoming known again. It's not available on the NHS and I think the only choices left to the mdical profession are the bisphosphonates. I took AA for around 5months and ended up with alsorts of problems including a burnt oesophagus and vertigo plus a variety of rashes. There is a book available which describes in detail the K2-7 vitamin. It's calle K2 and the Calcium Paradox by Dr. Kate Rheume-Blueu. I found this interesting and fascinating, particularly the part which explained how a shortage of K2-7 causes the face to be narrow leaving insufficient room for the teeth.

    She recommends that women should take K2-7 before having babies, to give the child the best start in life.

    Best of luck.

  • Although I have been prescribed with AA ..the box is still unopened..too scared to take it..I take the prescribed D3 and have bought K2 myself and walk and do morning excercises .. not sure If I am doing the right thing, but I have gut problems which make me cautious..good luck ..

  • Hi, just found this site and see quite a few are worried about taking Alendronic Acid,I have been taking this since I was fifty due to having a hysterectomy at the age of thirty two, they said it would help with my bones after the menopause age, I am now seventy six,and although I have other illnesses it has not bothered me at all, my sister who lives in Canada was also advised to take it and she also has been fine taking it.We also take Acdel D3 wich the doctor also gives us.I have never taken a vitamin K supplement but I eat well.I do hope I have helped some of you who are worried about taking A A.

  • Vitamin K2 is valuable as it does something Vitamin D3 does not: it guides calcium into the bones where we want it, so that it doesn't settle onto the walls of blood vessels or into organs and cause other problems. Magnesium is also needed for this, but unlike K2 we should get a reasonably good amount of magnesium from our diet.

  • Thank you.

  • good morning, I too take K2 and Magnesium after reading responses from other respondents and researching - this is very good essential advice - unfortunately rheumatologists are not too keen on looking at this condition holistically - it is after all a condition, not an illness. I took AA for five weeks with disastrous results, have now been prescribed Ibandronic Acid (another form of bisphosphonate) 150mg to be taken on a monthly basis (have a reading of 3.9 in my spine, so a bit worrying). I took the first tablet on Saturday and so far (fingers and toes crossed, touching wood and with a prevailing wind) I have not experienced any side effects, which is quite strange as so far I haven't had the awful bloating and the experience of your stomach turning to stone and the dreadful muscle and joint pain. However, when you read it up, this one only appears to build up your bones in your spine and then it's not guaranteed. kind regards

  • I have a reading of -4.3 in my spine, as you say, worrying which is why I'm hesitant to give up the AA but also worried that it is ineffective and that perhaps I have taken it for long enough now (2.5 years) as NSHeron has commented, 2 years seems to be the optimum to balance positive effects and crippling side effects! Catch 22 methinks!

  • sorry HeronNS I mean!

  • I think I have a printout from the Dexa scan..will have to look it. But I don't always understand all these figures,tho

  • PS to earlier response, I also take Vitamin B12, and exercise, exercise, exercise

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