Need help with night/early morning panic attacks. How do you control the subconscious dream state?

[Absmister]

Have kept a very positive mindset throughout my panic disorder so far. I'm starting to realise it's effecting my loved ones a lot which is knocking me down. I feel I can only be as happy as the people around me (well try too) but they are getting more frustrated and impatient with my panic attacks. Struggling to explain to them the panic comes regardless of my thoughts, in a way they can understand. I have got very good at controlling my day panics and pain with meditation and herbal remedies (decided not to take the medication route). But I've developed night tremors now, which wake me up during my nightmares, roughly 3 times a night. Each lasts about an hour. The problem is it shocks me to wake up like this so takes longer to calm down. I finally calm down (even though I think I'm having a heart attack), start to drift off and then the panic thoughts from my half dream state begin the whole process again. It only happens in the dark but I can sleep in the day. Unfortunately I need to work so I can't do this forever Does anyone have advice on how to control this exhausting night terror/night panic attack problem?

[Pugglesworth]

Hi Abs.

I had insomnia for awhile related to anxiety. I did a fair amount of relaxation before bed and while in bed. I was all tensed up, so I would find one part of my body that felt good and concentrate on that. It took awhile to get out of my brain and into my body: time and training were required. Panic disorder is nothing to mess with on your own (in my opinion). I don't recommend meditation without a teacher either (I don't recommend meditation at all unless you're striving for 'Enlightenment'). Meditation takes us to the subconscious where the real brain work begins. Depending on the type of meditation, you can be causing problems that you are unaware of. Even simple breath work can cause this as meditation is a deconstructive process (deconstructing our experience) and can be deeply unbalancing. Without proper instruction from an experienced teacher you may be touching areas of your subconscious that would rather remain untouched. Most community meditation centers and instructors are unaware of this (not sure why).

Mornings are tougher for me than evenings (not sure why). I do take meds. They help as they restore some chemical balance to my chemically imbalanced mind. I do meditate, but I have an experienced teacher (who is also a psychologist). The meditation I do is the Metta Bhavana ('Divine Abiding') and is based in loving kindness towards myself and all beings.

I recommend stopping the meditation and finding someone in your area to get some help from. We weren't meant to go it alone.

[Hidden in reply to Pugglesworth]

I do not agree at all. You cannot say that meditation can possibly be harmful. That is too generalised. Meditation is not only the hard core traditional meditation. These days mindfulness meditation is highly recommended for stress relief and to help with panic attacks. Over 8 months now I practice mindfulness meditation that has greatly helped me and even during panic attacks I use short versions of it as well as the dimple breathing techniques. You Don t need a teacher for that you can simply look it up online. For beginners the best way to learn is to watch them e YouTube videos from Jon Kabat Zinn, the father of mindfulness meditation and the one who successfully uses it to treat people with anxiety and PTSD. I too go without anti depressant.

[Pugglesworth in reply to Hidden]

Hi Cnoc.

I can and do say meditation can be harmful. I too went the mindfulness route. Started with 5 minutes a day, worked my way up to twenty minutes and in six months I was in dangerous territory. Learned mindfulness meditation at a local community meditation center (Shinzen Young's technique). I know that's not a popular opinion, my story doesn't fit the mindfulness narrative and goes against research that has boosted the movement: it is simply what happened to me. Mindfulness Based Stress Reduction (MBSR) is taught in many hospitals and classrooms. The majority of practitioner's are completely unaware there is a possible downside to what they teach. How could there be? So many people have experienced great results. The potential difficulties with meditation are well documented and instructor's not presenting that information to people doesn't allow for informed consent at best and is disingenuous at worst.

I wish someone suggested stop meditating and see if the anxiety clears up with me, but they didn't. I didn't know I was doing anything 'hard core'. I was simply watching my breath. When I discussed my anxiety with my meditation teacher they told me that wasn't possible as science clearly demonstrates the positive outcomes: something else in my life must be causing anxiety. I was simply studying Buddhism, read a book that said 'If you really want to study Buddhism you need to meditate', so that's what I did. I wasn't meditating for hours a day. I wasn't striving to reach Nirvana. Just a simple little meditation practice to understand Buddhism that threw my life into chaos.

I'm glad MBSR works for you and perhaps it's not adding to the OP's anxiety, but I would error on the side of caution. That's hard won advice on my side as I'm sure your advice is hard won too.

My experience and opinion.

[Absmister in reply to Pugglesworth]

Hi ronbo42,

Thanks for your reply. Meditation is a major thing getting me through my panic disorder and attacks. Unfortunately your reply gave me a lot of doubt (no problem though, it's just my condition) which started a lot of episodes for me the following nights. Being uncertain of my coping mechanism made it not work at all. I did a lot of reading on this and it looks like people with mild/moderate cases of stress/anxiety can react badly to meditation. It makes them aware of something which was previously hidden which they now must address, otherwise they can get trapped in this state. However people with severe panic/anxiety disorders have already had there minds 'hit them in the face and body' and have no choice but to act. During a panic attack, you have no choice but to focus on breathing otherwise it leads to hyperventilation and eventually fainting. It's fascinating to hear your unique story with mindfulness meditation and I was shocked to find it doesn't work for us all. I do appreciate your help on the matter.

[Pugglesworth in reply to Absmister]

Hi Abs.

I am sorry my comments led to doubts about the efficacy of your system. Always do what's right for you not matter what anyone else says. It's always simply another person's opinion and experience, not yours.

May you be well, happy and free of suffering.

[Absmister in reply to Pugglesworth]

Only just read this sorry. No worries at all! It's just the way my brain is working at the minute, logic seems to have gone out the window :/ Do appreciate the help though.

Hope you are well too and sleeping much better!

[Blu7]

youtu.be/t8EO-HHO4-8(Not working as expected?)

[Hidden]

I too had these episodes at night when I woke up with racing heart, gasping for air. Many meds don t agree with me so I Fön t agree with antidepressants I m on beta blockers now to calm down the reaction of my heart to all the adrenaline flooding my system. This helped a lot as well as mindfulness meditation. I practice this daily and also do it while having a panic attack. You can check this on YouTube:Jon Kabat Zinn is the founder of the treatment of anxiety and PTSD sufferers with mindfulness. Maybe it helps? Also: when I go to bed I practice progressive muscle relaxation. It almost always gives me good relaxation and sleep. All the best

[Absmister in reply to Hidden]

Cnoc - Thank you for the reassurance! I've started mindfulness meditation again and I feel calmer in general. After 4 nights without any sleep, I managed to get access to high quality CBD oil at a decent dosage. I can honesty say it has changed my life. All my symptoms are now manageable and the constant on the edge feeling has almost gone. I can finally sleep! I have what I'd call mild panic attacks but nothing close to what I was experiencing a few nights ago. It's early days using the oil but it has given me a massive break. I didn't do well with medication either so I highly recommend trying to find some of this stuff if your country allows it. Ready to start CBT therapy next week, so hopefully can get to the bottom of all this soon. I'll check out Jon Kabat Zinn today and try the progressive muscle relaxation tonight. I watched a documentary on netfix called 'heal' which gave me a boost of confidence. Also I watch on youtube a guy called Eckhart Tolle, who helps me stay positive. Thanks for your advice, I wish you the best!!

[Hidden in reply to Absmister]

You re very welcome and thanks for Your advice. I m definitely looking into the CBD but am a bit... well, hesitant. St John s Wort burnt my skin, lavender oil capsules made my anxiety worse and gave me brain zaps. I really couldn t believe it! I read online that in a few cases CBD can cause anxiety so I was too worried to try it. My country allows it so I could if only I dared to... lol. Do you take a very low dose? I m so happy for you that it takes the edge off your night terrors. Keep us posted please. xx

[Absmister in reply to Hidden]

Any time! I have tried St. John's Wort also but it made me vomit. Also the lavender oil capsules and they triggered IBS symptoms (which is another side effect of my panic). It's hard to judge what works isn't it because the anxiety gives you doubt on everything. My theory in the end was what the hell have I got to loose. From what I've read there are no known side effects. Our brains already have a cannabinoid system, which helps regulate a lot of anxiety, stress, pain, inflammation and lots more. CBD oil encourages this natural brain activity. When I put the first drop under my tongue, I was waiting to have a bad reaction but after about 30 mins my mood just changed. You can't get addicted and it's unlikely to build up a tolerance as it's already in your brain. It's out of your system in 48 hours. I started with one drop but after realising the effect it had on me upped it to 3 drops. 1 in the day and 2 for the night. If I wake up in the night I have another. It has no psychoactive effects so whatever 'reaction' you have would be a placebo. I have only read up on it for a coupe of days and this is just my experience. But I would defiantly give it a go, make sure it's good quality and a decent dosage otherwise it's pointless. I have tried it at 5% concentrate (this is what's legal in my country) and nothing happened. But I have been lucky to find my own source with a high concentrate and not missed with other crap. Because of the nature I have to obtain this, I don't know the actual concentrate. I've been told it's more around 50-60% concentrate. If you decided to give it a go, you'd have to experiment a bit to find your 'sweet spot'. Just watched a couple of videos from Jon Kabat Zinn, sounds awesome! Thanks for that x

[Hidden in reply to Absmister]

Thanks a lot, I ll definitely try. Nothing to lose As for Jon Kabat Zinn: try it and give yourself some time. It really works for me. When I m at the brink of having a panic attack I pop my ear phones on and listen to him on YouTube. It is my anchor and helps a lot. But I practice 20 mins daily. Take it easy

[kalinevada in reply to Hidden]

Dah, old school!

[Nom-D-Ploom]

I have tuned our pet, a pit bull, into a therapy dog. I keep her at my side from sundown to sunrise. It is really reduced the dreams and flash backs. My therapist liked the idea, and so far it is working when nothing else did. I can go to sleep without fear now.

[Absmister in reply to Nom-D-Ploom]

Hi Nom-D-Ploom,

What a lovely story. I'm thinking about getting a cat for the same reason. Would love a dog though, not sure I can convince my partner. Glad you have a best friend who can help you sleep! This put a smile on my face

[Hidden in reply to Nom-D-Ploom]

love this, I really do. We have 5 dogs but their not so therapeutic. They re snorting and sometimes farting the latter can be very sedating, lol. I m very happy that you trust your dog. They are our best friends and never let us down. All the best to you and your beautiful friend

[Nom-D-Ploom in reply to Hidden]

My husband had cervical spine surgery, so he has to sleep in an adjustable bed. I told him that the dog replaces him well. She hogs the bed, steals the blankets, snores, and passes gas all night! (all worth it because the flashbacks were escalating.)

[kalinevada in reply to Nom-D-Ploom]

Awesome!😎

[kalinevada]

Drugs.

[Absmister in reply to kalinevada]

Nice! Too many drugs got me to this point though! Was fun whilst it latest!