More on Israel's vaccine report

[rosyG]

The Herald, in Scotland, reports today that 4500 people in Israel were diagnosed with covid after first dose of Pfizer vaccine. Of these 244 were hospitalised in the first week after vac 124 in the second week and 7 in more than 15 days after they got the vaccine. I don't know where they got their figures from and haven't seen them quoted elsewhere yet but it does look as if a lot of protection is there after 15 days . It doesn't say when the 4500 were diagnosed and that would obviously be useful s if a lot were in the first 14 days it makes a big difference as immunity hasn't developed then.

[Coco51]

Thanks for this post RosieG. A small footnote to a piece in the Times on Weds 20th Jan said research from Israel showed there was less protection after one dose of the Pfizer vaccine than previously thought, but there were no figures, so I was curious.

This Herald piece would seem to suggest that most of the hospitalised people ( those who got seriously ill) caught the Covid before or just after their vaccination before it had taken effect. It seems to take 2 weeks after exposure to get sick enough to need hospitalisation. So if they were admitted to hospital a week or two after the jab it would have been too early for immunity to have developed for them.

I'm guessing the 7 who went to hospital 15 days or more after the vaccination would more likely be the ones who had not had full protection from one dose of the jab.

Either way it shows we can't really relax until three weeks after the second dose of the vaccine!

[Tapanac in reply to Coco51]

Except the government’s new rules now are that we aren’t being given any second vaccination for 12 weeks which is bad for the Pfizer as the scientists did rule that the doses should be given with 21 days in between as it loses its efficacy after 3 weeks.

Best best to go along with whatever I don’t know??????

Stay well everyone

[Coco51 in reply to Tapanac]

Exactly. There is unpublished data on the Oxford vaccine with doses up to 8 weeks apart. But none on the Pfizer as they apparently did not trial it. We will find out now.

So I will gladly take whatever I am given and still be extra careful.

[secondtry]

Thanks Rosy, I think I saw Israel is well advanced with their vaccine programme so hopefully more conclusive news from that country will follow soon.

[MarkS]

Israel seem to be announcing their research results through press conferences without any backup data on results and methods.According to The Times today, there is more research from another Israeli company, Maccabi, which gives a figure of 60% efficacy after 14 days.

thetimes.co.uk/edition/news...

We don't know whether the various figures were from PCR tests which pick up asymptomatic infections. The focus in the UK is to prevent hospital admissions and deaths and there's insufficient evidence to suggest that delaying the 2nd dose is incorrect. Evidence for or against that will be building up in the UK so I'd be a lot more reliant on that.

[Drounding]

I thought that you needed about 10-15 days or so to allow time for your antibodies to build up, so they wouldn't neccessarily have been covered at that time. There doesn't seem to be any details that have been made public yet.

We don't know what percentage of the vaccinated people contracted COVID, nor their ages, underlying conditions etc. The vaccine won't stop everyone from catching it. Even at 90% efficacy there may still be 10% who contract COVID, albeit hopefully with milder symptoms.

I think the media are perhaps quick to put this sort of information forward to get headlines but seemingly with few facts to back it up.

[Steve101]

At the end of the day I feel we have to have confidence in what the UK scientists are saying. I support the second jab being delayed if it means that more people can get some protection. In an ideal world we would want the second jab in three weeks, but we don’t live in an ideal world.

My understanding is that in the case of the Oxford vaccine, delaying by 12 weeks might actually improve its efficacy.

I’ll be glad when myself and wife get our jabs.

Looking forward to a better tomorrow. Lockdown 3 is beginning to get me down.

Best wishes everybody!

Steve

[rosyG in reply to Steve101]

I agree and I think the uk will take a view when they know more

[Coco51]

Actually I think those figures from Israel are encouraging. 7 hospitalised after 15 days (as a proportion of 4500) is small number*. Awful for them but statistically not bad. It will be interesting to see if the number grows. I for one will be glad to get one dose but it will be masks and social distance for me as before. Till dose number 2. Just with less anxiety.

*I meant to say it's a small proportion who got seriously ill

[rosyG in reply to Coco51]

I thought so too. Wish we knew more Re figures

[belindalore]

Nachman Ash, Israel coronavirus commissioner, reported the first dose of the vaccine is not as effective as they had hoped. Reported in The Guardian one day ago.

[dave205]

Here is more on this story:

israelnationalnews.com/News...

[rosyG in reply to dave205]

that's interesting Dave- must be where the Herald got the numbers from

[Coco51 in reply to dave205]

I guess we can't really make sense of this until they tell us how soon after the vaccination the 4500 contracted the Covid. I don't think that info is there.

[rosyG in reply to Coco51]

No that's right. That seem a different set of figures from the 200,000 where they show only 33 per cent for over 60s Sky News say they have put the question to the scientists here so may be we'll hear more on this.

[rosyG in reply to rosyG]

Sir Patrick valance has tweeted he had had talks with Israel so maybe we will hear more doon

[bantam12 in reply to Coco51]

Someone I know had the vaccine 2 weeks ago and she's just tested positive, she is in her 40s and a care worker, her Mum also a care worker was vaccinated at a similar time so waiting to hear if she's also caught it !

[Coco51 in reply to bantam12]

Scary. Poor lady! But let's hope it's a less severe case. I hope that's reasonable to expect if one gets it after vaccination.This virus is very tricky. My son age 35 was contacted and told to isolate after colleagues at work got ill. He did it all by the book and came out of isolation after 10 days. Then went down with it on the 11th day! I think 14 days incubation is very possible.

He was quite ill. 40° fever. Week 1...Raging thirst, sore throat, cough, extraordinary fatigue and no appetite. Week2 ...A relapse, fever again and nasty bloody cough. Sent to A&E by the GP , examined, given antibiotics and sent home. Got better quite quickly after that. Agonising to have to watch from afar on Zoom. Three weeks later he's absolutely fine.

Fingers crossed for your friend and her Mum❤

[bantam12 in reply to Coco51]

Thanks, it feels a bit like we are all dodging the bullets ! I don't think I would do well if I caught it as I have multiple health problems but hey ho can only do our best to stay safe. I'm more worried about who will look after all my animals if I go down with it 🤷‍♀️Take care x