Video Lycopene Supplements vs. Prostate Cancer

[NecessarilySo]

You can see this video by keying in the title of the video into your browser. It has some interesting nutritional facts, suggesting that too much lycopene supplement may increase metastases. However, lycopene from whole plant based foods is useful.

[JohnInTheMiddle]

TOPIC: LYCOPENE SUPPLEMENTS AND METASTATIC PROSTATE CANCER

Here is the video, no thanks to the obscure suggestion 😂, from November 2017:

youtu.be/MnsolNrF0gI(Not working as expected?)

It is from Dr Michael Berg, noted champion of vegan living:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Micha...

The video can be summarized as "too much of a good thing might be bad for you".

Concerning lycopene and the hype around consuming tomatoes and other red things against prostate cancer metastasis, I was eating a lot of tomatoes and then found taking a supplement was easier.

There's always the question as to whether a tomato contains things that are helpful but which are not lycopene. Apparently the pills are just a dried extract.

Interestingly the video comments that lycopene is a carotenoid, which I didn't know. As is vitamin A, and we know that too much vitamin A is bad. So supplements are complicated.

The studies referred to in the video - watching a video is a terrible way to make health decisions - seemed to be food observational studies which are notoriously unreliable. And then there's Dr Berg himself.

One can find various articles and comments online about a U-shaped response to various supplements. Too low is bad and too much is bad. So, moderation and all things!

And maybe you're getting enough of some nutrient just from a regular diet. There are exceptions possibly, such as vitamin D, for people who live farther north or who don't get out much.

[Tall_Allen in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

I think you meant "Too low is bad and too much is bad."

There were three small randomized trials that showed no effect or that it was problematic:

"Administration of high doses of lycopene, Green Tea Catechins, and selenium in men harboring HGPIN and/or ASAP was associated with a higher incidence of PCa at re-biopsy and expression of microRNAs implicated in PCa progression at molecular analysis. The use of these supplements should be avoided."

onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

"PSA levels did not differ between lycopene or green tea groups at 6 months (Table 5)."

aacrjournals.org/cancerprev...

"Despite large differences in serum lycopene following intervention, no treatment effects were apparent on either the serum or benign tissue endpoints. "

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[JohnInTheMiddle in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thank you Tall Allen - corrected now. And thank you for sharing the studies which suggest at the very least, "caution".

[NecessarilySo in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

I would summarize as the lycopene should be from natural whole plant sources rather than supplements.

[JohnInTheMiddle in reply to NecessarilySo]

Forgive me for a critique of your comment. My lycopene supplement exactly conforms to your criteria!

From what I can see they all do. Lycopene is not synthesized. The supplement is just basically ground up, cooked and dried tomato. (On many labels it's called "tomato concentrate".)

In terms of memes and rhetoric, the word "whole" is like a magic coin. In this case the word doesn't add much - except to say that one should get one's lycopene by eating the whole tomato plant, stalks, leaves and seeds included, instead of just the fruit! I was only looking for the fruit 😂

Next, "natural" does not add anything to "plant sources". There is no such thing as an "unnatural" plant source (unless I suppose we want to bring up the topic of GMO).

I feel awful, sort of. Pedantry is the useless expenditure of effort concerning minor differences, and the activity is often related to negative judgments.

Nevertheless as lay people confronted with a deadly disease, we are often overwhelmed with opinion and even coercion. I find that the easy cliches we share are often less than helpful in developing understanding. And there's no shortage of people who would take advantage of low information, our fear and our desire to live.

[NecessarilySo in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

In case you missed it, there is another video that plays automatically after the video above, (thank you for posting it), which explains that there are multiple components in the tomato fruit which assist the lycopene. Separately the components are not very effective, but with their combination, they are much more effective Lycopene by itself is not effective, and is shown to be harmful in large doses. Together, as in tomato sauce and paste, they are proven effetive.

[JohnInTheMiddle in reply to NecessarilySo]

That's interesting. I wonder if the so-called lycopene supplements, which seem to be based on just boiled, concentrated, dried and shredded tomatoes might therefore just also include those complimentary ingredients? (I think it would be kind of like dried ketchup without the sugar 😃)

[NecessarilySo in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

Lycopene supplements are probably just lycopene.

[JohnInTheMiddle in reply to NecessarilySo]

Per my comments above, and from the labels on various lycopene bottles available locally, it's just "tomato concentrate". Which makes me think it's just dried ketchup, but without the sugar 😂

[Maxone73 in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

Yup, get a double or triple concentrate and don’t forget to add some oil to it, it’s liposoluble. Delicious and cheap! 😃

[j-o-h-n in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

Thanks for letting me Ketch up on the Lycopene supplement....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[HotRod4321 in reply to j-o-h-n]

Not only do I ketchup, but I turnup and pea too! (when I take my pea meds!)

[j-o-h-n in reply to HotRod4321]

Nutt-in like feeling your oats...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n

[HotRod4321 in reply to j-o-h-n]

I just love laughing! (LMOA!) Thx.... (Can't go anymore, eye tearing up laughing! I need a drink!) Godspeed!

[Kuanyinismybodhi927 in reply to JohnInTheMiddle]

I agree. First of all, there is a difference between synthetic and natural lycopene. For years I have been using Healthy Origins which is made from tomatoes. Secondly, and just as importantly, the product contains safflower oil which is essential to the absorption of lycopene. Sometimes, I will take a Trader Joe flatbread cracker, put a tablespoon of salsa on it with some olive oil.

[Kuanyinismybodhi927 in reply to Kuanyinismybodhi927]

One step I left out is that I put the cracker-covered-Pico De Gallo in the microwave for 15 second.

[MateoBeach]

Pizza Pizza, and other tomato sauce recipes are much more fun.

[Mgtd in reply to MateoBeach]

I agree last night I made salmon on the grill with green beans and oven roasted cherry tomatoes with feta. For dessert we had key lime pie and coffee. Best damn supplement and the taste was really something you could get your teeth into.

No supplements for this kid! I prefer the real thing.