Pre-CRPC Supplements/Drugs - Potential Risks vs Rewards?

[jazj]

With some substances there could be a "tipping" point depending on the substance, the dosage and the patient's stage of cancer where the substance may have a higher chance of having a negative effect instead of positive. It usually relates to ROS levels. Adequate levels of ROS are important for cancer cell homeostasis involved in the development of cellular processes such as proliferation, differentiation, migration, and cell death. In contrast, high levels of ROS are harmful to cancer cells and ultimately lead to cell death. This article gets into the nitty gritty:

"Roles of Reactive Oxygen Species in Biological Behaviors of Prostate Cancer"

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

There's also implications of drugs affecting the Adrogen Receptors.

So on many substances, the question of what's the right dosage has never really been answered? Or more importantly, how wide is the "safe" dose range may be unknown? Patients have to try to make semi-informed guesses based on not a very large body of evidence especially long-term.

There's quite a lot of substances discussed on this forum. Probably 7 of the top 12 or so are statins, metformin, sulforaphane, melatonin, lycopene, modified citrus pectin, vitamin E, and vitamin D.

But which of these carries the least risk of being counterproductive in the most common dosage range based on the limited knowledge we have to date on them?

Based on reading and discussions, it seems statins, Metformin, and vitamin D all have a low chance of being counter-productive? Whereas there's a body of evidence Vitamin E in all sorts of cancers can be counterproductive if I recall.

Is Melatonin a good example of one that too much, too early (or too late) could be counterproductive since it can be anti-ROS up to a point then pro-ROS?

Do some substances, pre-CRPC, accelerate time to CRPC instead of slow it?

What other supplements do people consider based on the latest information they've gathered and/or personal experience (or advice from their MO) as having a low-risk of being potentially counterproductive and/or not just a plain waste of money (excluding in the context of actively receiving chemo or radiotherapy?)

Personally, I can only come up with statins, Vitamin D, and high-quality sulforaphane supplements. The question also arises, does synergy of adding other substances raise or lower the risk of negative versus positive effects? Seems plausible combining too many things that raise or lower ROS? I guess no one really knows but interested in other's current opinions.

[jazj]

Given this is a complicated subject, I saw a comment in another thread recommending the book "How To Starve Cancer" by Jane McLelland. I did a speed read scan on it. A very compelling story not specific to PCa but very poorly written unless you want a practically hour by hour account of her life's journey after stage IV diagnosis. (The path she took I think is realistically impractical to 99% of the cancer population.) The last chapter is really where all the info is.

Essentially she does point out if you still have cancer and are trying to rid yourself of it, you need to raise ROS and not lower it and lower Glutathione. But I go back to my original overall question which to dumb it down is, if you have a relatively low and/or stable PSA, should you embrace or avoid any supplements that lower ROS and/or increase Glutathione?

"Cancer cells survive by keeping glutathione, the master antioxidant, at a

high enough level to keep the cancer cell from self-destruction. Reducing

levels makes these fast dividing cells defenceless. If glutathione is

lowered and ROS or reactive oxygen species levels are increased, the

cancer cell becomes unstable and unable to sustain itself and apoptosis

results."

[dhccpa in reply to jazj]

I read Jane's book four years ago. I found it useful but, as you say, too much bio stuff. Also very little about quantities or frequency of the 60-70 supps/off-label meds she mentions.

I took about 55 pages of typed notes from the book. I need to re-read them now, four years later. I haven't dismissed her, but as you say, very little about PCa. She updated her book and sells a course, but I haven't bought either.

[dhccpa]

All good questions but no clear answer. I've taken at least 50 supps over last five years but I "pulse" them in and out. Probably keep 20 going at any one time.

Guesswork, but I don't pay for expensive procedures or pricey proprietary supps (like Dr. Eliaz's MCP, not to single him out).

And, of course, I do standard of care treatment.

[j-o-h-n]

What does high ROS indicate?

Oxidative stress can promote tumor initiation, progression, and resistance to therapy through DNA damage, leading to the accumulation of mutations and genome instability, as well as reprogramming cell metabolism and signaling. On the contrary, elevated ROS levels can induce tumor cell death.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 01/03/2024 6:11 PM EST

[jazj in reply to j-o-h-n]

Nice summary. Yes it boils down to whether you are in the "prevention mode" or the "kill it mode" The challenge arises is many people may have micrometastases and thereby not have any reliably confirming evidence if cancer has already begun to progress and you are just feeding it versus preventing it.