In my (cursory) readings on Sulforaphane (and ROS generation) I came across the term "hormesis":
"hormesis is used to describe the apparently paradoxical phenomenon in which a specific compound induces biologically opposite effects depending on its concentration: in particular, there is a stimulatory or beneficial effect at low doses and an inhibitory or toxic effect at higher ones."
This is probably not news for those better versed in biology. Sulforaphane is hormetic. The study says in order to get cytotoxic and antitumor benefits of Sulforaphane, food dietary intake alone may not be sufficient:
"Notably, all the studies dealing with SFR toxicity report that these effects occur at concentrations above 5–10 μM, that is, levels which can be barely maintained through cruciferous diet intake"
So my question is how do we achieve that level of concentration. I'd imagine thru supplements(?). If so, how do you get comfortable with the dosage and the type of supplement? And what to look for in a "good" sulforaphane supplement?
There was a phase 2 study done on this with a small number pf patients. Even though there wasn't a significant drop in PSA, PSA doubling times improved quite a bit. Dosage used is indicated in the study article. Appears there was no grade 3 adverse effects.
Here's a quote: Only one subject experienced a ≥50% PSA decline. Thus, the primary endpoint was not achieved. Seven patients experienced smaller PSA declines (<50%). There was also a significant lengthening of the on-treatment PSA doubling time (PSADT) compared with the pre-treatment PSADT [6.1 months pre-treatment vs. 9.6 months on-treatment (p = 0.044)]. Finally, treatment with sulforaphane-rich extracts was safe with no Grade 3 adverse events.
You are citing an early 20-patient study that was not a randomized trial. The french study (n=60) was a randomized trial.
"Mean changes in PSA levels between M6 [month 6] and M0 were significantly lower in the SF group (+0.099 ± 0.341 ng/ml) compared with placebo (+0.620 ± 1.417 ng/ml; p= 0.0433). PSA doubling time was 86% longer in the SF than in the placebo group (28.9 and 15.5 months, respectively). PSA increases >20% at M6 were significantly greater in the placebo group (71.8%) than in the SF group (44.4%); p=0.0163."
Yes, I saw that report. What interested me was two-folds: its effectiveness in other solid tumors, and the biochemical justification for it. The puzzling part (which I'm still struggling with) is why hormesis even exists. Patrick also just had an interesting post, somewhat related to this. Thanks for the link.
So this study was in 2015 and while it didn't meet its endpoint target, the results indicate that further testing, particularly higher doses, is warranted. So what's happened since 2015?
I would take the 60 mg/day of sulforaphane pills along with some raw broccoli florets to assure you get the myrosinase enzyme needed for bioavailability.
I just was researching the supplements of sulforaphane pills and they all seem to be 400mcg. How many of those is 60 mg / day? or do you find them in mg?
thanks...I ordered them just now from Jarrow...and I will TRY to eat some fresh broccoli with it...I like my broccoli in "cream of broccoli" soup...LOL.
You're mixing up the weight of the pills with the weight of the sulforaphane or glucoraphin within the pill. I made the same mistake at first.
For me the best resource for this is Rhonda Patrick's videos. I downloaded the research papers and did the math using those numbers. I couldn't find all of the #'s but I took a ballpark estimate at some. Unfortunately, I threw out the notebook where I calculated this. To sort it all out, you need to convert umols to g/mg/mcg and various other units
I do remember that 1g of sprouts = 2.4umol SF = 0.425mg SG = 425 mcg SF. And the dosages in the studies were around 200umol and 310 umol per day.
Right now, I am taking Crucera-SGS (385mg, contains 50mg glucoraphanin), Pomi-T (300mg broccoli extract) and a capsule of mustard seed powder (containing myrosinase) 4 times a day. By my estimate, this gives me a significantly higher dose than in the studies that Rhonda Patrick cites. I order all of the supplements online.
I'm in Canada, so I can't get Avmacol (which comes with myrosinase), so I use Crucera-SGS and add my own myrosinase supplement (mustard seed). If you're in France, you apparently can get an actual Sulforaphane supplement (not glucoraphanin) called Prostaphane. This supplement apparently gives the highest bioavailability.
I don't know how effective this is, but I tolerate it well. I've been using it for about 4 months.
I'm taking the Jarrow BroccoMax and the label states that each capsule contains 30mg of SGS (Sulforaphane Glucosinolate aka glucoraphanin) which has been demonstrated in vitro to yield approximately 8mg of Sulforaphane. Does this mean that 2 capsules per day is enough to reach the 60mg/day recommended in the French Study or do I need to take 7/8 (56/64mg)? I currently take 2 with a portion of broccoli each day.
You stated that you are "cured" which is fantastic news!. I can't find any previous post/s revealing your secret or the extent of your PCa. Can you please repost what you have been doing or taking? I'm sure many of us would love to have that info. Anxiously awaiting your reply, Ron
Happy for you that you are cured and just wanted to say I appreciate your knowledge and contributions to this forum even though you no longer living with the disease. Stay well.
FWIW, I did a fair amount of research on sulforaphane several years ago. My conclusion was that it both slowed PCa growth and interfered with the metalloproteins that participate in producing distant metastases.
That paper is about lung cancer but there are many about prostate as well.
I take BroccoMax, it has 30 mg Sulforaphane Glucosinolate (SGS). Their process preserves myrosinase, the enzyme in broccoli that metabolizes SGS in the small intestine into sulforaphane. Supposedly each capsule ends up delivering about 8 mg sulforaphane to the body.
Working with the smartest naturopath I've met, we decided on a dose of 1 capsule mornings, and 2 capsules evenings. Lots of things happen in the body between 2 and 4 AM.
Has it worked? No way to know. The N=1 problem. But I'm 11 years into this journey, locally advanced but no distant mets, which puzzles my oncologist. It might be the SGS, it might be luck, or it might be that there are mets but they are too small to image.
It certainly hasn't hurt me, except for a little damage to my wallet.
Hello Snoraste, I recommend taking a supplement that has either stabilized sulforaphane (e.g., Prostaphane which is available form France, but sold only in Europe through pharmacies) or glucoraphanin, the precursor of sulforaphane (go to Wikipedia for more info). Glucoraphanin requires that the enzyme myrosinase be present in order to convert glucoraphanin to sulforaphane in the stomach/gut. The microbiome can not be relied on to perform the necessary conversion. The calcium ascorbate is just another form of vitamin C and facilitates/promotes the activity of the enzyme. I recommend BroccoMax from Jarrow Formulas to achieve the required sulforaphane. If you find another similar product please let us know. Please note that 60 mg (milligram =1/1000th of a gram) = 60,000 mcg (micrograms). Phil
Thanks - That's what I ordered yesterday. I think I'll start taking two a day to get to 60mg that TA suggested in his earlier post on the french clinical trial.
On the issue of dose response curve "anomaly" of sulforaphane, I came across this article:
"Abstract
Epidemiological evidences establish sulforaphane (SFN), a hormetic dietary isothiocyanate to be a promising chemopreventive, anti-inflammatory and anti-cancer agent. Beyond a concentration threshold SFN exerts pro-death activities (cell cycle arrest, epigenetic modifications and apoptosis) and below the threshold it either promotes prosurvival autophagy or remains latent. There is a significant lacuna in understanding the underpinning dynamic molecular networks that alternate the pharmacological responses with respect to the intracellular concentration and exposure time that renders SFN to be a characteristic hormetic molecule (display characteristic biphasic dose response curve). Unraveling this multi-targeted SFN triggered molecular interplay between apoptosis and pro-survival autophagy may have great therapeutic implications. From the available literature, here we present a review that illustrates the existence of a hormetic window and briefly discussed its role in the spectrum of activity of SFN in different pathological conditions (cancer and immune-mediated diseases). Further, we hypothesize a hormetic signaling event on how SFN triggers mutually exclusive molecular pathways such as cell survival or death signals depending on its pathophysiological environment, exposure time and in vitro working concentrations. By better understanding these altered events and underpinning mechanisms in different combinations such as concentrations and time a proper therapeutic can be designed."
What caught my attention was "mutually exclusive molecular pathways". There has been a long debate on anti/pro oxidation benefits of phytochemicals here (and elsewhere I'm sure). But can these hormetic chemicals do BOTH simultaneously at higher dosage? Then there's no debate.
I have done a lot of research on sulforaphane glucosynolate supplements for my PCa and eventually chose to go with Thorne Research's Crucera-SGS product. 50 mg of SGS per capsule.
Two primary reasons. One, Thorne's product has 50 mg of SGS per capsule, while Jarrow's is 30 mg per capsule. Second, the "Other Ingredients" in their respective products. The excipients that Jarrow uses are calcium ascorbate and maltodextrin. The excipient the Thorne uses is calcium laurate. Although you can debate the relative merits of the two calcium salts (I personally think the laurate is better), I simply would not take a supplement that uses maltodextrin as a manufacturing aid, for the same reason I would never take one that used magnesium stearate as a manufacturing aid --- which is a general overriding principle (for me) that I only take supplements in capsule form and never tablet form because tablets are always made with magnesium stearate or some other long-chain fatty acid that can screw up the absorption of the actives. And while Jarrow's BroccoMax doesn't have mag stearate in it, a ton of other products in the Jarrow line does. So in my analysis, Thorne's Crucera-SGS is the "cleaner" product of the two, and Thorne is the "cleaner" company of the two.
I saw another product on amazon called OncoProtect ES (Extra Strength). It has 100 mg of Glucoraphanin and 2 mg of Myrosinase. The product looks pretty clean too. Maybe another option. More pricey too.
I was also reading that sulforaphane reduces methylation. My homocysteine is high and my doctors think that I should take methyl-folate, which I have declined. These doctors are acting like they have a hammer and are looking for a nail. I did read that resistance exercise can reduce homocysteine. Time to start working out.
Here is the link to the sulforaphne / methylation:
Sulforaphane-Induced Cell Cycle Arrest and Senescence are accompanied by DNA Hypomethylation and Changes in microRNA Profile in Breast Cancer Cells
Patients received 60 mg of oral SF (two tablets containing 10 mg sulforaphane each, three times a day)
" Each tablet contained 10 mg of free stabilized SF extracted from broccoli seeds (Prostaphane TM). To improve the stability of SF, a new cold press process was developed by NutrinovTM (8 rue Jules Maillard de la Gournerie, 35012, Rennes, France) to produce immediate release tablets of microencapsulated active component powder extract."
I contacted Prosrophane distributor in France. They do not ship to the US. They will ship to most of the European countries though, and if in sufficient volume, shipping would be free - in case you can arrange the shipping by someone there. It’s still fairly expensive, I’ve been using BroccoMax (2 tablets a day, contains Myrosinase) although Avmacol is another good one.
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