Dhea and Pregnenolone

[lewicki]

My alternative MD wants me to take these.

Has anyone done so and will it be a good idea or a bad idea?

[Tall_Allen]

Bad idea. The androgen receptor feeds on those. Your alternative doctor sounds like a quack.

[lewicki in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thanks Tall_Allen.

[Hidden]

I think Smurtaw has talked about this.. smarty??

[BB_1]

I have taken DHEA in the past prior to my Prostate cancer. DHEA was to help with increasing your testosterone. Do you really want to increase it?

[lewicki in reply to BB_1]

No. It seems to be doing so all by itself. Thanks

[Hidden in reply to lewicki]

I hope things get under control for you, Lewicki. Not all supplements are harmful, you have to be smart, do your research and start slow.

[cesces]

You know there is so much we don't know, you can easily make things worse with supplements.

For instance a lot of people like to treat prostate cancer with cannabis.

Prostate cancer cells have extra cannabinoid receptors. Cannabis likely accelerates the growth of prostate cancer.

Treating it with cannabis is really risky behavior.

Then there is the issue of th reliability of supplement labels. Unless you buy from a vendor like lef.org, you really don't know what's in the supplements you buy.

[dhccpa in reply to cesces]

hadn't read that about cannabis. I haven't decided that it hels, either. I have taken it since diagnosis with no issues, but I've been on Lupron all the way through. MO hasn't cautioned me against it.

[cesces in reply to dhccpa]

Got that from Dr. Myers.

Commonly known they have extra cannabis receptors.

Myers had a few thousand prostate cancer patients. He noticed that those who bragged about treating pc with cannabis consistently had the most aggressive cancer.

For obvious reasons there will never be a good controlled trial to prove or disprove his observation.

But for me, no cannabis until I reach hospice.

[Hidden]

Thank you Smarty, I am sure your thoughtful post has helped Lewicki and all that were interested in his question.

[lokibear0803]

Yeah, my previous MD was also a naturopath who walked like a duck, talked like a duck, etc. Quack!

He had me taking DHEA/pregnenolone after I’d been very sick with the flu, having a hard time recovering.

After a few months of that stuff, I never felt stronger in my life. Set a PR for the half-marathon. Getting up 4am every day to run 10 miles.

It was almost like I was on steroids! Never wanted to quit! So I didn’t! Kept taking it for many many months!

Uh, yeah, as it turns out…I felt so invincible that I didn’t bother checking PSA for over a year. When I finally got around to it, it had bumped up considerably, and biopsy showed I had PC. Whoops.

I’m reluctant, however, to assign cause/effect here. I was also exposed to Agent Orange, so who knows what caused my PC. But this naturopath was irresponsible to not insist on a limited-time course of the DHEA/preg (vs just letting me continue b/c I liked it so much), and to do it at all without frequent PSA monitoring.

I advise against it.

[lewicki]

After I have read this forums response I will also not take it.

[Teufelshunde]

Would DHEA be a good idea if you are trying to raise your T naturally? 15 months after finishing SRT, PSA at <0.02 and T at 240. Was on bicalutamide for 30 days pre SRT but nothing once SRT 2-month process started. Remember reading that for PC, T at 200 no different than T at 400 or 600. I believe the concept was AR get saturated at the 200 level and risk profile is lower at the 0 ish range (hence ADT) and the 1000 and up range, but in between 200 and 800 not much difference, but a world of difference for me re mind and body. I also think it is too soon to consider TRT, maybe another year? Thoughts anyone? Headed to Block Cancer Center here in Chicago suburbs next month also to get more info.

[Teufelshunde]

I will have to talk with my new Doc about that. I guess I need to get comfortable with the saturation theory. It makes logical sense but need to do more research. Thanks for the suggestion.

[Hidden]

Holy cow, I’m with you on that one, Lewicki !

[groundhogy]

please reference your data as far as cannabis helping PCa grow. Because im doing internet searches and it is showing that cannabis helps kill PCa...?

[Hidden]

Hi Smarty, we are doing ok, some days are not as good as other days! He starts xtandi today, 1/2 dose. I still believe with all of my heart, there must be a better way of treating this horrible disease. Just something that helps not ravage and deplete your body while helping to shrink tumors, something to give all of us quality of life. I have contacted the Riordan Clinic in Kansas City....what do you think?

[Hidden]

thank you and thank you for posting results of your efforts.

Karen

[CAMPSOUPS]

Riordan appears to be a sort of pseudo-scientific clinic. Do they have verified data showing outcomes?

She seems to have some respect for your views. I wish you would have used a little stronger language than "sort of pseudo-scientific".

I am done trying to get her to see the light. I unintentionally offended her a couple times in the last 6 months. I have concern and compassion for her and her husband. She has been very emotional in the journey and I feel for her. I just am concerned her "searches" have more to do with not going thru the side effects of real treatment than actual treatment. Looking for a miracle actually. She always seems a half step away from Tijuana and coffee enema's and her time spent researching would be so much better spent looking at medical science, RCT's, etc.

Nothing wrong with the E-patches for QOL and if she were to entertain BAT or PROP-BAT she needs a MO on board IMHO. She wants to help her husband so, so much and gets trapped in rabbit holes of Mistletoe and other concoctions.

[Linebacker75]

I ask my MD Anderson MO and RO about BAT, adding DHEA or adding Testosterone intermittently for a better QOL and both told me no way, that it was Russian Roulette to do so. I was a power lifter way back in the 70s and 80s and consumed or injected a truck load of enhancements which I often wonder could have helped in me being on this journey today. As much as I hate my total weakness, almost complete muscle tone loss, no libido and those dreaded hot flashes I do want to live as long as possible so for me it’s onward with my Medical Docs advice and I’m staying away from the “roids.

Fight the good fight my Brothers!!

[CAMPSOUPS]

All good points I take well or well taken by me.

My wife and son and I have adjusted (well as well as anyone can I guess) to the diagnosis 3 years in and are aware of the realities.

I remember my son came to be in on the first appointment with my wife and I going over my biopsy and the subsequent referral to an MO. The tears flowed to say the least. My son came again to stay with us for a couple days and be present at my first MO appointment. My wife and him had been crying and discussing finances and going thru all the what ifs (I hadn't had a physical in years so had full blown metastases and PSA 1621 at diagnosis) and I needed to go to a gas station in the a.m. before the MO appointment to put air in a tire. I came back and told them that I had finally had time to cry myself..big time on my drive to and from the gas station. In the prior weeks my head was full of how I totally f'ed up and left my wife with a mess in leu my departure rather than sadness. The forum here has been great in that I found this can happen to anyone no matter due diligence.

Well hey don't get jealous lol. I sought out a new MO and as of about 2 weeks ago Dr. Antonarakis is my new MO!

As a side note I am in preliminary steps of acceptance for dora trial he shared with me. I knew I was in line now for repeat of chemo since Zytiga no longer working (time to reset the playing field so that Xtandi or other Tx will be more viable) and dora combines Docetaxel with or without Xofigo (unblinded so I will know if I get it) and my diffuse skull to shins bone mets are still with me so could be a good trial for me. Can get the Xofigo alone after the chemo if I don't get it in combo in the trial.

[CAMPSOUPS]

Maybe moving from my beloved 23 year home in chicago to the twin cities 2 years ago wasn't so bad after all lol.

[ElizabethMedora]

smurtlaw, do you mind clarifying PROP-BAT? Hubby sure would like to have these kind of results since finishing up 18 mos of Lupron+Zytiga. His T hasn't come back yet, and he's still titrating the pred and he's feeling weak and low energy. Just doing walking and tennis 3x/week and being super lazy about the weights. Ugh! Thanks!

[lewicki]

I present take finasteride and dutasteride only. I am in remission nor for 24 months results of four trips to the University of Heidelberg receiving LU-177 and AC-225.

Perhaps his thoughts were to prevent recurrence. Twenty three years with this demon.

[lewicki]

Thanks. Threw the stiff away.

[Teufelshunde]

Thanks. Interesting.