Is there a recommended dosage of Sulforaphane to help prevent metastasis? (BroccoMax supplement suggests 35 mg/day.)
As shown in my profile, I had RP in 2018 (Gleason 4+4), 38 radiation sessions in 2019, and PSA has been undetectable since then.
Sulforaphane Dosage?: Is there a... - Advanced Prostate...
Sulforaphane Dosage?
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Polaris1
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On its label BroccoMax recommends 2 capsules/day standarized at 3.5%. I take 3 capsules/day 6-8 hours apart. Entirely my decision.
Kraut is great but it is a learned taste and you can get addicted to it. Make your own to get the exact taste you like. I like caraway seeds in mine fermented for about a month. In the winter the jar sits next to the wood stove in a pan to catch the ooze out. Longer fermentation makes it stronger. I am not a cook but this is one thing I brew up. Most of the stuff at the store is inedible or crazy high in cost. Make it 1/2 gallon at a time. When the jar is 1/3 down start a new batch. Enjoy
A thin layer of coconut oil spread on your toast with a big pile of kraut gets my day started. Odd combination, but crazy good.
Nal,
I have a weakness for kimchi. Too bad the Korean restaurant closed during the pandemic. Supermarket kimchi is rubbish IMO. When I get the craving, I am sometimes lucky enough to find a local product in the Asian grocery store. Good stuff.
I had to check to verify that napa cabbage has sulforaphane - it does, though I doubt that it is a substantial source of anything.
Best, -Patrick
pjoshea13,
Is there a Whole Foods market near you? If so, the Real Pickles brand of kimchi is quite good. It is naturally fermented and is refrigerated and is rather expensive but worth it. Look at my response to Nalakrats about this brand. They are the real deal.
Currumpaw
Pickles, like kraut, are easy to make at home too. Like cabbage, it self-ferments without any inoculant (like yeast, SCOBY etc.). A small veggie garden -even if it is just in pots- can provide an amazing amount of first rate food.
Thanks ck722--but--
I had enough dirt in my life already when I was young! As for pickles--Yep! A big crock full every year. The dahlia flowers! A day's worth of digging and carrying back or out of the cellar at each end of the season. There were almost 120 dahlia roots. Hills of cucumbers, squash, pumpkin. Thousands of pounds of produce from a half-acre garden. In the fall all the old bedsheets that had been saved were laced over the plants still producing to protect them from frost.
Currumpaw
The Study dosage was 60mg. If you are going to take it, why not take the dose that worked in the study. Seems like a no brainer to me. Little pricy but dont have many studies with an easily available product used in the study and they give you the actual dose. Here is link.
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/259...
Thanks to all for the info posted - including the link to the 2015 paper on this subject!
Mid-march sounds perfect!
Hey Nalakrats!
Whole Foods sells the "Real Pickles" brand of sauerkraut which is refrigerated and costs about 8$ for 15 ounces. Fermented and a rich source of cultures and enzymes is in the description. A friend who sells supplements told me that a customer had reflux for years and was on meds for that and blood pressure. The customer told him that he had bought this sauerkraut and eaten a fork full of it in the morning and a fork full at night. Within a month his reflux was gone. He stopped the meds for the reflux and his doctor took him off blood pressure meds.
Northeast Family Farms makes the kraut and kimchi too. I think they also have a variety with a little beet in too.
Currumpaw
Hey Polaris1,
Along with a DIM and a cruciferous extract supplement I eat a few, large pinches, of organic broccoli sprouts on the side of a salad. I slice a garlic clove thinly on the tops of the sprouts, add a little of the dressing and mustard which is said to enhance absorption. Black pepper and a small teaspoon of tomato paste for the lycopene.
Currumpaw
Sounds like a recipe for gas Nal.
I just read that gas is usually 20 to 40 times a day. Another thing I excel at.
No wonder your cats are always hiding outside in your back yard.....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/01/2022 6:39 PM EST
Cats drool over the smell of gas. If there were cats in NYC, there wouldn't be so many rats.
Hell in NYC some restaurants in some neighborhoods have cats on their menu. Some dishes are: General Bo's kitten, Sweet and Sour paws, King pee cat collar soup.. and etc.
Desert: Chocolate chip ice cream (two scoops)....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/01/2022 7:00 PM EST -Lunar New Year: The Year of the Tiger
Are you sure that dessert is chocolate chip ice cream? King pee cat collar soup.. I see you've hired some better writers.
Thank you..... they're from the far east.. hence that type of humor.
Dessert:
It's vanilla ice cream sprinkled with cat's nails....another far east delicacy.....which also helps relieve internal poison ivy itch....
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/01/2022 7:35 PM EST -Lunar New Year: The Year of the Tiger
In the French trial they used 60 mg/day. Each tablet contained 10 mg of free stabilized SF extracted from broccoli seeds (Prostaphane TM) via a cold-press process. The cold pressing retains myrosinase, an enzyme vital for bioavailability. If you take the pills, it's probably a good idea to eat some raw broccoli sprouts or florets at the same time.
Do not take with radiation or chemo.
in reply to Tall_Allen
Why no sulforaphane with radiation or chemo?? I wish I would've read this last week. I had five doses of radiation on my sacrum while downing my BroccoGen 10. I'll stop immediately and discontinue it for my upcoming chemo sessions. Thanks TA!
pjoshea13 in reply to
pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/257...
"... Also, SFN {sulforaphane} sensitized PCa cell to radiation via upregulation of Nrf2. We then found that Nrf2 level in control TRAMP groups was lower than castration or SFN groups. The SFN treated TRAMP mice showed similar level of Nrf2 to castration. Genetic and pharmaceutical upregulation of Nrf2 lowered the ROS in PCa cells and sensitized PCa cells to radiation similar to ADT, implicating possible administration of SFN in place of ADT for PCa patients requiring radiotherapy."
Read the Discussion section.
-Patrick
Tall_Allen in reply to
Because it may interfere:
sciencedirect.com/science/a...
It is important to understand that much of the cancer cell killing from radiation and chemo is due to the abscopal or bystander effect - T cells are activated by the dead cancer antigens to attack live cancer cells elsewhere.
Don't take with any immunotherapy either.
in reply to Tall_Allen
Thanks TA!
Oregon? I figured that with the refrigeration that the Northeast Family Farms product might not be locally available where you are because of the refrigeration and the amount of product the company can produce.
Currumpaw
Love that Jewish Rye bread. Toasted , thick sliced ( I buy it unsliced , single bake ) With butter.
Okay to ship it in the winter ?
Chocolate chip ice cream topped with sauerkraut (1/2 scoop)..
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Tuesday 02/01/2022 6:42 PM EST
Thanks for reminder. Need to start those up again. But not with chemo or immunotherapy. Now we know -- the rest of the story.
Packaging and rapid delivery today has changed our lives. A heavyweight champ that at one time shoveled coal and carried ice!
Rocky Marciano | Up Close - New England Today
newengland.com/yankee-magaz...
Currumpaw
I was discussing Broq (Prostaphane) in another thread. Pointing out the French study that used 60mg/day of it, that means you take 6 caps a day, which considering it's $60 on Amazon for a 60-cap bottle, that's $6/day = $180/month! Also if the Broq lab results are correct as far as actual bioavailable amount of Sulforaphane, the equivalent does of the popular Broccomax caps (17.5mg/each) would be 31 Broccomax caps! That's seems very hard to believe but true if Broq's lab results are legit using scientifically accurate and applicable methods.
This confirms the 37% versus 70% bioavailability.chemoprotectioncenter.org/w...
So the question is, is the max available Sulforaphane from 35 mg glucosinolate (Broccomax) with myrosinase really just 6.9 mg and then only 37% of that is bioavailable? That means all those sulforaphane supplements that put the word sulforaphane in front of glucosinolate on the label are essentially a scam in my mind. As they don't have sulforaphane, just the precursor glucosinolate.
broq.life/_files/ugd/8b60da...
A cup of broccoli (not sprouts) is just under 100 grams. The amount of sulforaphane in raw market ready broccoli is highly variable I've read (40-120 mg per 100g if I recall). Let's say it has on average on the low end of the scale 60mg per 100 grams and it's I believe about 35% bioavailable. That's about 1/4 pound raw broc. So essentially you'd have to eat a half pound of raw broc to get that 60mg equivalent of Broq (Prostaphane). At $2 a pound, that's $1 a day, a lot less than $6 a day but you might have quite a bit of gas LOL. Not going to grow sprouts. What's the other alternative? Freeze dried sprouts or florrets? Where can you buy them online?
Looks like freeze dried sprouts is possible but not easy so who knows if any freeze dried product as sulforaphane?
EDIT: Well here's probably the answer from koyah.com/products/organic-...
How many mg of Sulforaphane would you estimate are in a tsp of your powder?
We just test the amount of glucoraphanin and that amount of active myrosinase because that is what exists in the raw sprouts.
We don't standardize it to a certain level, the last batch we tested, tested at approximately 70 mg of glucoraphanin per 3.4 g of powder. 1 scoop is 3.4g.
Glucoraphanin appears to be the more specific name for Glucosinolate which is what's in most of the Sulforaphane supplements. I assume they are equivalent so that means 1 scoop freeze dried sprouts (3.4g) is equivalent to 4 X 17.5mg Broccomax tabs. The Broccomax caps are 500 mg each so that means 2g of Broccomax is equivalent to 3.5g freeze dried sprout powder. At 37% bioavailable, that's 26mg bioavailable dose, just below half of the 60mg dose used in the study. 26mg/day sprout powder for that brand is $1.25/day, double that to 52mg/day, very close to 60 mg of the study, that would be $2.50/day. A heck of a lot less than $6/day. Seems the freeze dried sprout powder is the best bang for the buck?
Furthermore:
"The authors experimented with both SR- and GR-enriched broccoli sprout extracts, broccoli seed extracts, and freeze-dried broccoli sprouts as supplements. The highest bioavailability of SR (about 40% on molar basis) was found after 10 min in pre-hydrolyzed freeze-dried broccoli sprouts, mixed with pineapple-lime juice containing vitamin C."
mdpi.com/2304-8158/10/8/192...
Also just found:
For the glucoraphanin, our most recent lot tested at 2050 mg / 100 g, which at a 3.4 g serving size, which comes to 69.7 mg of glucoraphanin per serving.
Total Glucosinolates tested 2,910 mg/100 g or 98.94 mg per serving.
So it's not 1:1. But, I forgot this is still not stabilized Sulforaphane like the Prostaphane is. So not a cost cutter assuming stabilized Sulforaphane is 8-10 times more bioavailable than Glucisinolate based supplements.
Saw this thread featured today for some reason (I assume due to my past replies.) Since posting my replies I dug deeper. Best bang for the buck is Oncoprotect ES. Ignore any supplement that only lists Glucosinolate content. That's a general umbrella term for more than one substance. You want to know the Glucoraphanin content. Also ignore any supplement without ACTIVATED myrosinase except BROQ, the only supplement I know of that uses stabilized free Sulforphane which doesn't need myrosinase. You get 10mg of it at $1 per cap about. It's 80% bioavailable. The French study used 60mg = 48mg bioavailable Sulforaphane.
Oncoprotect ES has 100mg Glucoraphanin and active Myrosinase. At around 30% bioavailability you get would need 1.6 caps to equal 48mg bioavailable Sulforaphane. MUCH better value than any other Sulforaphane related supplement including the popular Avmacol (which the value falld about in the middle between Oncoprotect ES and BROQ). Broccomax is the worse value out of the 4.
If you took 2 caps Oncoprotect ES a day based on average bioavailability studies, would be slightly exceeding the equivalent of the French study that showed 60mg Prostaphane (Broq) significantly slowed the PSA doubling time. 86% longer in the study.
aacrjournals.org/cancerprev...
jazj, I am sorry I lost track of your comments until today. Thank you for responding with information about the important subjects of Sulforaphane vs. Glucoraphanin and bioavailability. I could not reproduce some of your numbers, so kindly help clarify how we should look at this.
Using the chart for which you provided a link, average bioavailability is about 40% for Glucoraphanin and about 70% for Prostaphane. This means that the bioavailable Sulforaphane in 6 capsules of Broq is about 42 g. From the report for which you provided a link, the actual Sulforaphane in one capsule of BroccoMax was 6.9 g. Only 2.76 g of this is bioavailable. Therefore, we would need about 15 BroccoMax capsules to provide the same amount of bioavailable Sulforaphane as 6 Broq capsules. Do I have this correct?
I've been doing further research on nutraceuticals. I'm now leaning towards high-bioavailability formulations of Curcumin due the the fact the half-life is 6.5 hours as opposed to 2.2 hours for Sulforaphane so Curcumin stays in your system 3 time longer. Curcumin also has a larger body of evidence than Sulforaphane concerning slowing PCa. I wouldn't rule out taking both, but then you are risking making some pretty expensive urine for possibly a negligible benefit. Too bad there just aren't more resources to study these substances well for longer terms.
I actually found a more economical brand than Oncoprotect ES. It has half the amount of "Truebroc" Glucoraphanin but is cheaper per mg of Glucoraphanin.
Hermesis amazon.com/Hormesis%C2%AE-T...
Basicaly $0.01 per mg of Glucoraphanin
Oncoprotect ES is $0.0127 per mg of Glucoraphanin (roughly 25% more expensive)
I was on amazon last night searching sulforaphane and I ran across an interesting product that claims 145mg of sulphoraphane. I am posting a ling to it below. I have never heard of this product, but decided to order a bottle. I have no financial interest in this company and I would be interested in any opinions.
Thanks,
Capt. Dave
amazon.com/gp/product/B0B3J...
Captain_Dave, this Osasuna product on Amazon is claimed to provide 150 mg/capsule Sulforaphane (plus 450 mg Glucoraphanin, which presumably converts into more Sulforaphane) for only $0.33/capsule. Compare that to Broq from France (apparently used in the French clinical trial), which is advertised to have 10 mg/capsule Sulforaphane at about $1/capsule. Too good to be true??
Yes, I thought the same thing. I still ordered a bottle. I would love to find more info about this company. I currently take TheraPure Onco Protect ES. It has 100mg of glucoraphanin per capsule and costs $80 per bottle of 60.
A late followup, but you expressed an interest in finding out more about Osasuna. Here’s website I use (often) that offers their own “grade” with details on specific Amazon product reviews, and a short analysis on the company. FWIW to you:
fakespot.com/product/450mg-...
Some interesting excerpts from that analysis:
Our engine has … determined that there is high deception involved...detected that there may be counterfeit products sold through this listing…discovered that 36.4% of the reviews are reliable.
I also noticed they spelled “glucoraphanin” incorrectly, several times. For me, that’s a warning flag. You can click on the link for the company to get an overview, from FakeSpot, about the company’s other products. In short, not flattering.
I’d also comment from a layman perspective on “liposomal sulforaphane” — sulforaphane is unstable at room temperature, and more importantly for this product, it is lipophilic. So how they manage to stabilize a lipophilic molecule in a liposomal environment is not obvious to me. But, again, wrt biochem, I’m a layman.
But let’s assume they’ve succeeded with the stabilization of sulforaphane. Based on bioavailability discussed in this thread, the product yields ~100mg SFN + additional 120mg from the glucoraphanin + myrosinase (assumed bioavailability respectively is 70% and 40%), for a total of 220mg SFN after digestion. That’s 5x as much bioavailable SFN as used in the French study (~42mg) pointed to in this thread.
BTW higher doses of sulforaphane have been found to be toxic. It appears the doses itemized here are much higher than what one might consume with the Osasuna product, but still perhaps this is worth knowing:
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
High doses of sulforaphane produced marked sedation (at 150–300 mg/kg), hypothermia (at 150–300 mg/kg), impairment of motor coordination (at 200–300 mg/kg), decrease in skeletal muscle strength (at 250–300 mg/kg), and deaths (at 200–300 mg/kg).
Regardless, Captain, I wish you the best of luck in your investigations. It does appear that SFN, done correctly, can have a benefit. FWIW, from my own analysis around cost, product reviews, company reputation and bioavailability — I’ve concluded I’ll do 6 capsules/day BroccoMax to match the French study.
Thank you for this info!!!
I have been taking a supplement called Oncoprotect ES from Pure Therapro Rx. At least they can spell Glucoraphanin on their bottle!
Yeah, good spelling is a start 😎.
I found that OncoProtect and BroccoMax cost about the same (for similar level of bioavailable SFN), so I leaned to the Jarrow product since I already know who they are.
One more “meta-review”, FWIW: FakeSpot gives the OncoProtect company a C rating, with a D for that product‘s reviews — the star rating was downgraded from 4.5 to 2 stars, since FakeSpot claims mucho deception: only 50% of reviews are authentic, out of only 97 reviews to begin with.
As with everything, a grain of salt. I frankly don’t know who FakeSpot is either! 😜
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