Sulforaphane: I saw the clinical trial... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Sulforaphane

RSH1 profile image
RSH1

I saw the clinical trial a while back but I didn't know how to interpret it. The authors must have access to data that I haven't found. cancerpreventionresearch.aa...

53 Replies

What data were you looking for? My old copy may have some additional charts in the end:

cancerpreventionresearch.aa...

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to Tall_Allen

Thanks! That helps.

RSH, there are lot of studies from different countries which have shown benefit of Sulforaphane rich foods in Prostate Cancer. These foods have to be eaten every day in good quantity. Best ones are Cauliflower, Brocolli, Cabbage, Radishes and Mustard Greens. They also delay resistance to Anti Androgen efficacy. Its almost established that Sulforaphane rich foods are useful in PCa treatment. After reading dozens of studies, I do not feel need to read about this subject anymore. I am busy eating such foods whenever I get a chance.

cigafred profile image
cigafred in reply to LearnAll

Ditto

Loves2golf profile image
Loves2golf in reply to LearnAll

It’s difficult to eat those sulforaphane veggies every day. Would there be any benefit to taking a supplement to ensure that you’re getting sulforaphane in your system every day?

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to Loves2golf

Narural foods are preferred by me as they have other beneficial polyphenolic and flavonoid substances besides Sulforphanes. But supplements of Sulforaphanes may still be partially effective.

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to LearnAll

Unfortunately that is what I think also. We frequently think we nailed something only to find out "oops, need the synerngists". I hate broccoli and the sprouts stink if you make them yourself.

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to Loves2golf

BroccoMax [1] may be the best product out there for Sulforaphane.

It took Jarrow years before they added Myrosinase, the enzyme essential for removing the glucose-related structure from inactive Sulforaphane Glucosinolate.

Glucosinolates [2] are found in all of the cruciferous family found in the diet. Myrosinase [3] is also present, in a different compartment. Chewing brings the two together when the vegetable is raw, as in sprouts or radishes, say. Heat destroys Myrosinase, so cooked vegetables are useless in that regard, although one could slather the cooked dish with raw horseradish. [4]

[1] swansonvitamins.com/jarrow-...

[2] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Gluco...

[3] en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Myros...

[4] sciencedaily.com/releases/2...

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to pjoshea13

Broccomax is the one I get. smile.amazon.com/Jarrow-For...

Edit: now I get it from the swanson link you posted. A few bucks cheaper per month.

The fact that you need to chew it and you can't cook it makes broccoli even harder for me to eat. And I don't like horseradish so I almost always default to supplements. I'd rather do the whole food but I don't want to fight myself every day like I fought my parents when they made me eat it.

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to RSH1

George Bush Snr. famously wouldn't eat broccoli yet lived to 94.

Yes, I know, keep politics out of it! LOL

youtube.com/watch?v=FlzyIbm...

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to pjoshea13

Lol! Just call me Russell Bush. Read my lips "no more broccoli!"

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply to pjoshea13

He may have sneaked it on the side.

Nalakrats profile image
Nalakrats in reply to pjoshea13

Gosh, pj---did not find a need to do a post for the men here--since Tall_Allen, approved of it, and claimed he used it---then it must be very OK. BroccoMax--3 times a day for me---hard thing is taking always on an empty stomach---I have a trick for some things that need an empty stomach. I set a pill bottle of Empty Stomach Supps. on my night stand and when I get up to pee in the middle of the night I get more opportunities.

They just reduced Mask restrictions today--time for Lunch???

Nal.

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to Nalakrats

So you can't take sulforaphane with food?

I found a little info from a "website".

A: In clinical studies, where we want to have precisely the same conditions in every way possible for each person, we typically have our study participants take their doses early in the day, before eating, with a glass of water. However, moringa powder and broccoli sprouts/seeds can cause some mild digestive discomfort (such as belching) when consumed on an empty stomach, so we recommend that folks at home consume them with other foods.

The good news is that our work suggests that the range of bioavailability of the active ingredients (the glucosinolates and the isothiocyanates produced from them) in moringa and broccoli sprouts/seeds is pretty comparable whether you consume them with food or on an empty stomach. Hints from comparing different studies suggest that an empty stomach might actually make the compounds a little more bioavailable, but this is not proven, and the difference would not be important to you as a regular consumer.

Nalakrats profile image
Nalakrats in reply to RSH1

Jarrow's Product is succinct--at least 30 minutes before eating/but it also says at least 30 minutes after---I have studied the Bioavailableness---empty is best--period. Not all are the same---Jarrow has added Myrosinase--so this may be different than other products, out there. Patrick and I have done our homework on this. We just buy from different sources.

Nal

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to Nalakrats

Doesn't seem to hard to do. I'll just take them either when I get up in the morning or at night before bed (with my melatonin, aspirin, nattokinase, calcium, potassium, magnesium, red yeast rice, and last dose of metformin).

Nalakrats profile image
Nalakrats in reply to RSH1

Hell of a program--5 thumbs up!

Nal

I used to take it but only did the 2 pills in the morning. Why do you do it 3 times a day for yourself?

After reading this thread I might end up taking it again since my PSA is dropping.

Get it down low and do what I can to keep this thing at bay.

I take a couple of other Senolytics, that call for 2-3 times a day--so it is my choice to add this at 3 times a day.

Nalakrats

There you go again, making me look up funny-looking Nalakrats words. *Google Google Grumble Grumble*

I have written on Senolytics---are you reading my Posts.

Yeah, I always do. I just didn't recognize the word and was joking around too. 🤡😜🤪

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to Nalakrats

I don't recall that he provided study details.

I figured it might have been a random pick - to prove he wasn't against EVERY supplement. lol

kapakahi profile image
kapakahi in reply to pjoshea13

Man, the things I learn on this site! Another I've-never-even-heard-of-this moment. Neither my wife nor I can tolerate cruciferous veggies, and especially not raw - we'd have to live in the bathroom. Does this Jarrow supplement cause digestive upsets like broccoli and cauliflower do? Not that I could get my wife to take a supplement apart from meals, but I'm used to it by now. I wonder why it's so expensive - I mean, it's just broccoli, right?

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13 in reply to kapakahi

It's extracted from the seeds.

SooHwa99 profile image
SooHwa99 in reply to Loves2golf

I do a smoothy every morning with half a cup of broccoli sprouts. I hard can tell they are in there. I buy the spouts and promptly freeze them in the small container that they come in and use them straight our of the the freezer.

Nirman profile image
Nirman in reply to LearnAll

Broccoli and mustard microgreens that I have started including everyday in my dad’s diet

monte1111 profile image
monte1111 in reply to Nirman

Ok. I looked up mustard microgreens, and I think I would actually like them. But Broccoli everyday? Has your dad turned green? (One of my kids turned orange - too much Gerber Carrot. We thought he had liver disease. ) Your dad actually likes Broccoli everyday? Any chance your dog has turned green? Not a fan of raw Broccoli. I take an occasional BroccoMax and often diet on heavily salted radishes. Wishing you and dad the best. Hope he gets a nice dessert every day. The best supplement is j-o-h-n's jokes. And they're free. At least for now anyway.

Currumpaw profile image
Currumpaw in reply to Nirman

Hey Nirman!

I read a study in which mustard, the condiment, was used as a condiment on broccoli. It was found to enhance broccoli's bioavailability. Similar to curcumin and ginger working synergistically together.

Currumpaw

Nirman profile image
Nirman in reply to Currumpaw

So you mean we have to eat broccoli with mustard seeds to increase bioavailability and synergistic effect

Nalakrats profile image
Nalakrats in reply to Currumpaw

You know too much--putting me out of a job.

Nal

Currumpaw profile image
Currumpaw in reply to Nalakrats

Hey Nalakrats,

Not possible!

Currumpaw

TomTom1111 profile image
TomTom1111 in reply to Currumpaw

I steam my 🥦 for 4 minutes and then eat it with my own honey mustard ( Kosciusko Spicy Brown and Raw Honey)

I usually eat around 4 heads a week plus I pop 2 pomi-t a day.

Thats enough broccoli a week for me

dhccpa profile image
dhccpa in reply to LearnAll

You left out brussel sprouts.

Nirman profile image
Nirman in reply to dhccpa

I live in India Brussel sprouts are not very much popular and grown so not available here

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to Nirman

They have very good Cauliflowers, Mustard Greens (Sarson Ka Saag) and Radishes.

I have been interested in sulforaphane for some time and have a 1kg bag of broccoli seeds. I also have a sprouter. Sprouting is a pain for me because indoor temps rise too much in summer. Do you know if the ground seeds are equal to sprouts in sulforaphane content/availability.

I do not know.

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to Frigataflyer

Good idea. Sprouting the seeds is a pain. Mold, water 3x a day. They smell.

Looks like seeds might work.

drtanase.com/2017/01/21/can...

sulforaphane in broccoli seeds.

Old post: healthunlocked.com/advanced...

cancerpreventionresearch.aa...

I have found this product from France now available in the US. Prior to this product I took Avmacolbroq.life/compare

PSA DT (Doubling Time) 86% longer in Sulforaphane group!!

Easy way to take your broccoli or other cruciferous veggies is to put them in your juicer. It has to be a masticating slow juicer, not a high speed one.I will juice a green apple, lemon, carrots, celery, cucumber and broccoli and it's way healthier than any store bought juice concoctions.

You can experiment and create your own vegetable mixes, but be sure to add some ground mustard powder and it will synergistically magnify and enhance the sulphurophane effect.

In a 2018 study, in the participants who consumed 1 gram of brown mustard seed powder after eating cooked broccoli , bioavailability of sulphorophanes was over 4 times greater than in those who ate broccoli alone. Brown mustard seed being a good source of myrosinase.

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/298...

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to FRTHBST

Thanks

cigafred profile image
cigafred in reply to FRTHBST

Is brown mustard seed powder significantly better than black or yellow? Many mustard seed powders do not specify, and most of the rest are yellow.

FRTHBST profile image
FRTHBST in reply to cigafred

I don't know the answer to that. Brown mustard seed is commonly available, so perhaps that is why they used it in the study. Not sure how variable the myrosinase content would be across different species. Interesting question though.

Hey RSH1!

Within the the study, in the section, "Patients and recruitment", this statement about selection was made.

"Exclusion criteria were patients with known allergy or intolerance to cruciferous vegetables, severe hepatic, renal or cardiovascular conditions, and those regularly taking other nutritional supplements, such as green tea, turmeric, or pomegranate."

I have often mentioned the importance of 'synergy'. The importance of a balanced diet has been acknowledged for centuries now. At the turn of the twentieth century there was much study about diet. At that time The Seventh Day Adventist Church, in addition to their spiritual beliefs and teachings, taught diet and lifestyle as the body is the temple of the Lord. Kellogg's cereals were developed as a healthy food.

Who, on this site, would have thought that there would be a pocket of people, a Blue Zone existing , in a country where deep fried chicken, burgers and sandwiches containing processed meats, is the culturally accepted diet.

It isn't only what one adds to their diet, it is also what one removes from their diet--and what replaces it!

Sugar addiction! For whatever reason, the news stations always show people walking from the shoulders down, probably to not show faces. It shows the health of the country. A person who was once considered corpulent in my youth is now considered, normal! Men always tucked their shirts in. No more! There is even a shirt now made to be worn untucked -- to disguise or as designers might say, "It falls nicely from the shoulders". Whatever!

The study was done in France. That could make a difference between the French diets and the lifestyle in the US of A. I understand more of the Europeans tend to walk too.

Another point from the study which precluded any attempts at using synergy by the participants to get even better results.

"Diet

To avoid any dietary covariant, patients were counseled not to change their usual dietary habits."

Around the same time this study was being done there was a study in the US using cruciferous extracts, pomegranate, green tea and turmeric.

I find the following excerpt from the "Patients and recruitment" section interesting in light of the supplements used in the US study both alone and synergistically.

"Exclusion criteria were patients with known allergy or intolerance to cruciferous vegetables, severe hepatic, renal or cardiovascular conditions, and those regularly taking other nutritional supplements, such as green tea, turmeric, or pomegranate."

Imagine that! The very ingredients used in the non profit study which Dr. Greger made a YouTube video about. The very same ingredients in a supplement called Pomi-T! The very same ingredients some urologists have had formulated to their spec and now sell from their offices!

The date the study was published is August 2015.

There have been other studies about cruciferous plants and cancers. It has been found that broccoli sprouts, not the broccoli--which is very good--are the most protective of any plant tested. The live, living plant, in it's infancy, with the seed still attached, providing nutrients to the brilliant, green seedling.

Speaking of synergy and the three ingredients excluded from the diets of those in the study but part of the proprietary blend of certain supplements, why stop there?

Other known cancer killers are garlic, condensed tomato products, onions and capsaicin. A war isn't fought only with ground troops. Ginger enhances the protective effect of curcumin. The mighty mushroom! PSK! Sunshine--an original way to get D! Blueberries, black cherries and apples--the skin. Eliminating that which harms and replacing it with that which is protective does take some will. Dietary habits and an affinity for certain tastes, smells and textures are ingrained in us from childhood. Where is the double cheeseburger with the "special condiment"? Fries? Supersized? The 1,700 calorie "coffee"? A couple donuts too!

Studies are fine but most take a tunnel vision approach. One type of treatment, one medication, one supplement and a lifestyle change or two, or three!

Surgery and radiation are sometimes needed together. Maybe hormone manipulations? Up is now showing possibilities as well as down! When one is undergoing necessary treatments such as these, why wouldn't they also make diet and lifestyle changes? Cardiologists and their patients didn't denigrate the importance of diet. Stop eating eggs and so on but for the cancer patient it is still often said by doctors that diet has little to no effect on their cancers. That is changing now.

Diet may not cure a cancer. Diet may or can prevent progression. My thoughts are that if changes have established a status quo that can be lived with, what is so bad about that? I also think that backsliding is playing with fire. Backsliding is especially tempting when one is told they are in remission. If the new habits have cancer--cured--or just smoldering, why go back to the old habits and pour gasoline on it?

I fully believe that the integration of conventional, holistic, dietary and spiritual practices can be more beneficial than any one of those alone.

Those of us on this site and members of MaleCare are here because whatever treatments we were counseled about and chose, didn't produce the expected results.

Currumpaw

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to Currumpaw

Hi,

Clinical trials and PubMed metastudies and trials support:

tomato paste

pomegranate juice and arils

garlic

sulforaphane

green tea and EGCG

Pomi-t

Zyflamend

Exercise (an hour or so a day - very rare in America but you could overdo it and that's also bad - my guess would be cortisol and recovery and general stress on the body's resources)

Healthy BMI (<25)

and many others.

So I make sure to include lots of these foods every day. Garlic needs to be crushed and allowed to sit for a bit (10 minutes or so seems safe).

The catechins (e.g., EGCG) in green tea or more available if vitamin C is consumed in conjunction. I prefer to get my vitamin C from citrus. Apparently, about 10% lemon juice and 90% tea is a good ratio.

Like you said, very unlikely that diet alone will cure prostate cancer. But eating clean will help. Supplements have a good name: supplements. They are not primary treatments.

Russ

Currumpaw profile image
Currumpaw in reply to RSH1

Hey RSH1!

Thanks for your input. I don't use Pomi-T as I prefer to select the amounts and quality of the supplements myself. I don't feel there is anything wrong with it. It is still a supplement.

When making the blended drink with seeds and nuts as the base I first begin with by making a salad of broccoli sprouts, a couple sliced garlic cloves and thinly sliced red onion on top. An organic oil and vinegar, pink salt, freshly ground, organic black pepper and a squirt of Amy's, organic, horse radish mustard. The sprouts are a living source of the plant as is the cloves of garlic. I prefer to have some in stock and look for the green shoot beginning to come from the clove.

When possible I eat the real foods, the living things.

Thanks again.

Currumpaw

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to Currumpaw

I eat lots of pomegranate arils (seeds) and drink pomegranate juice. The taste of pomegrante is growing on me. I didn't like it when I first started. Now I look forward to it - but I still mix in a little cranberry juice or something else with my pomegranate juice. For garlic I crush up 6-10 bulbs every morning and eat throughout the day.

I hear you about whole foods. If I can I go the whole food route. Sulforaphane is an exception. Making sprouts can be smelly and time consuming.

Perhaps soaking the seeds overnight and then putting in the fridge and eating as soon as a shoot emerges. Do you think that would work?

Good to see a few of us here are following alot of the research that Dr Gregor of Nutritionfacts.org provides. I trust his dietary guidance above any when it comes to fighting cancer.