43 Month Transdermal Estradiol (tE2) Update

[E2-Guy]

Just a brief history:

Robotic RP in 2004. BCR in 2013 (PSA-0.21). 'Failed' lymph node excision in 2017 (nodes identified via Ga-68-PSMA Pet/CT scan). Started applying tE2 gel as mono-therapy in April of 2018 when my PSA reached 0.71.

My latest numbers are a bit confusing. Only my ALP is in the same range. The only two things that have changed are: I may have been using 'slightly' (perhaps a drop or two) less gel, and I have been hitting the gym almost every night for the last two months. Our kick-ass condo fitness center was closed for many months during the pandemic and I exercised very little until the recent reopening. I have been spending 25 minutes on the cross trainer elliptical and 30 minutes of weight training.

I just Googled if weight training could increase T levels and numerous articles confirmed that it does.

“Exercise will boost testosterone, though certain types of exercise increase testosterone more than others,” says Richard Jadick, D.O., a Piedmont urologist. Exercise can raise testosterone because it promotes muscle building. The more muscle you have, the higher your testosterone levels. Research has also found a link between obesity and low testosterone.

My most recent numbers from 11/15/2021:

PSA: 0.012

T: 341

E2: 119

ALP: 87

My two previous PSAs:

5/14/2020 - 0.003

2/16/2021 - 0.003

T levels:

5/14/2020 - 25

2/16/2021 - 13

E2:

5/14/2020 - 146

2/16/2021 - 220

ALP

5/14/2020 - 84

2/16/2021 - 84

Feeling great...still no side effects other than the 'mini boobs' that few girls would be jealous of! For the last three plus years I have been 'hormonally' castrated and consider myself to be just another over the hill she-male! Photos below from this week.

[E2-Guy]

Nal, I have always known that you would easily kick my puny butt, so why would I be so stupid to put a wager on any competition with you? I have always been the runt of the litter...not enough Wheaties when I was trying to grow up. Speaking of "Airfare", when are you coming to visit me?

[Tall_Allen]

You seem to be in great shape! What your google research is telling you is incorrect IF you are being chemically castrated by the transdermal E2. It appears that your testes have resumed manufacturing testosterone (I doubt that it could get that high from adrenals only). But the good news is that your PSA is still very low. Re-test for possible lab error? Maybe PM Richard Wassersug?

[E2-Guy in reply to Tall_Allen]

Allen, As always, I thank you for your reply. I have already talked to Richard (my tE2 mentor) who is also confused about my increased numbers. I have been using the same hospital lab for years with relatively valid consistency so we really don't know what is going on? I'll probably retest in a couple of months since I'm not losing any sleep over this quandary.

[E2-Guy]

If you've never been here, I'm sure you would have a great time! I moved here from Southern CA 17 years ago and have no desire to ever return. I don't even want my ashes to go back...they will be scattered in the Gulf in front of my condo.

My ocean view.

[dhccpa in reply to E2-Guy]

Whereabouts?

[E2-Guy in reply to dhccpa]

Chonburi province...about 80 miles south of Bangkok.

[noahware]

Hey Ron... so maybe add a little more gel, to try to get E2 levels back up in the 220 range rather than the 120 range? Isn't it possible that T rose because E2 was no longer sufficiently high?

I assume you discussed that with RW. In any case, it doesn't sound like a little more T is about to do you in, judging from your low PSA and low ALP, huh? Best regards, and keep soaking in that beautiful vitamin D!

[E2-Guy in reply to noahware]

That is exactly what Richard suggested I do! Thank you for your reply.

[London441]

If you’re designating the E2 to keep your testosterone at castrate levels that’s not working out (see what I did there?)

Weight lifting is a very unlikely source for a T rise from 25 to 341 in 9 months. Good advice about the estrogen from Noaware.

On the other hand, if your T is 341 and your PSA is super low, you’re in the pole position. I suggest doing even more of those pullups and have a happy thanksgiving.

[E2-Guy in reply to London441]

Thank you London for your input. This is actually the first time since I started using the gel that my numbers are kinda out of whack. For the last 3 years my PSA has never been above 0.076, my T fluctuates between 10 and 90, and my E2 has been between 123 and 380. I do believe that my 'slight' reduction of tE2 gel is responsible for these atypical numbers. We shall see when I get my next blood draw in about three months after I increase my tE2 usage a bit.

Ron

[podsart]

Might consider going to monthly testing until you feel you have achieved control again via your titration of the tE2. Perhaps that way you can make sure things don’t run away from your control and you have time to move quickly to adjust your strategy in case it tries to.

Good luck

[E2-Guy in reply to podsart]

Thank you Podsart for your suggestion!

[j-o-h-n]

A snowman calls a funeral director and says "I've decided I want to be cremated and have my ashes placed in a snow globe".....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Monday 11/22/2021 6:46 PM EST - President JFK assassinated in 1963

[E2-Guy in reply to j-o-h-n]

Haha!

[Surla]

Hi ronronHU,

I had RP one year ago Gleason score 9, PSA 0.21, radiation 34 sesions, 6 month later PSA is at 0.39. Scheduled review on 27 Dec with a team of Oncologist/Urologists to prescribe hormone therapy and some scans maybe. Otherwise I feel OK, playing tennis, walking no problem. Please let me know where on your body you apply this cream Estradiol (tE2). I would like to try it.

Vlad

[E2-Guy in reply to Surla]

Hi Vlad,

I apply the clear 'gel' to my lower abdomen and inner thighs in the morning and at bedtime. Some of the guys just use it in the morning and have undetectable PSAs. Perhaps my cancer is more advanced and stubborn?

Clear E2 gel

[Surla in reply to E2-Guy]

Thank you ronronHU

[vladsara in reply to E2-Guy]

Hi Ron,Hope you are doing well.

My PSA went down from 0.4 to 0.2, after 6 weeks on oestrogel. I did it once and sometimes twice a day. It looks good. I continue once a day. My boobs are little bit swelling. I will do another test two weeks later, at home in Croatia in the usual lab.

Let me known what you think.

All the best

Vladimir

[E2-Guy in reply to vladsara]

Hi Vlad,

I'm doing well, thank you! Great to hear that the tE2 gel appears to be working for you. My boobs stopped growing after about a year and the sensitivity also ceased.

Where are you now and where did you buy the gel?

[Surla in reply to E2-Guy]

Hi Ron,

Thanks for the info. I bough so far total of 6 tubes (used so far 1.5), in Bangladesh where I am working. The pharmacy store got it from Malaysia and is actually original gel from Besins, made in Belgium. Exp date 11/2024.

[Lost_Sheep in reply to E2-Guy]

I have been working on using transdermal estrogen (TDE) instead of the Orgovyx recommended to me. I have been scouring the internet for medical journal articles in support of my quest and also testimonials like yours (and Professer Wassersug's and others).

One question I have not seen addressed is this:

Gynecomastia from TDE as primary/monotherapy - how much?

But enlarged breasts from TDE are forever (without surgery afterwards or radiation beforehand). So, a concern.

My question is, "How large?"

I know M-F transgender persons should expect breast size one or two cup sizes smaller than first-order female relatives. (but at what dose?) Of course, their desire would be to maximize the effect.

What is the experience of men being treated with estrogen (either as a monotherapy or adjunct to standard ADT) or men experiencing gynecomastia from standard ADT?

If you are comfortable with it, please report how your breast growth compares to your female relatives.

[Metaldraft]

Hey I wish the best in what ever your journey be and your mood is great be happy and live life

[E2-Guy in reply to Metaldraft]

Thanks Bro for the kind wishes! My best to you also in this difficult battle.

[Metaldraft]

Ron I was interested whether you had preference on estradoil application cream or gel did ever try patches?Also the brand name you choose and does it matter where you apply it on your body f course not on sensitive organs.Thanks Ron for being a pioneer

[E2-Guy in reply to Metaldraft]

I have never tried the patches and use only the gel that is pictured in my reply to 'Surla' 14 days ago. It is called 'Oestrogel' which is produced in France by Besins and available here in Thailand. Richard J. Wassersug, Ph.D (my tE2 mentor) has been using the exact same product for over 20 years with great success. Unfortunately it is very difficult to purchase in America since there is no money in a $20/month, self administered gel for the doctors and pharmaceutical companies. I understand that the nasty Lupron/Zoledex injections that come with numerous side effects are about $6,000 every three months. I left The States 17 years ago and hope I never have to go back...don't even want my ashes sent back! My Thai 'significant other' is going to have me "barbecued" in a temple and dump my ashes in the sea directly in front of my condo.

Ocean view from my balcony

[Metaldraft]

I recently had a well informed conversation with wassersug very informative on this subject Thanks Ron !!

[Metaldraft in reply to Metaldraft]

Is oestragel the same as estrogel ?thanks again

[E2-Guy in reply to Metaldraft]

I assume they are the same; however, the only one I have ever used is spelled 'Oestrogel'. Richard W. and I use the same product.

A tube of E2 gel

[Metaldraft in reply to E2-Guy]

Can’t thank enough I will try through Canadian route.

[Metaldraft]

Are you using a tube a month very difficult to get in USA and the cost as well but I’m still searching Thanks as always

[E2-Guy in reply to Metaldraft]

I use about a tube every three weeks. Where do you live?

[Metaldraft in reply to E2-Guy]

New York I have even trying relentlessly in every path but you just don’t know the transparency of the reps because if your not prudent you will get the product wrong.I always ask for picture of product and some can’t materialize that. I will have to stay some firm if adt soon so I may have to go to Orgovlx or firmadon and maybe second agent.Thanks for everything you assisted with in this battle

[E2-Guy in reply to Metaldraft]

Bro, I recently sent some gel to my daughter in IL for a couple of my friends who have been using it. Shipping from here can be a pita since many of the shippers refuse to accept 'gel' so I have to fib and tell them that it is cream and hope they don't open the package. My daughter is a doctor and I don't like to ask her to mess with mailing it so the best way is to schedule a pickup with one of the shippers like UPS or FedEx. Shipping from here is anywhere from $7 to $14/tube depending on the number of tubes shipped. I make a small profit on the gel and charge $15 plus shipping. My daughter then charges a 'total' of $25/tube including her time packaging it. (Hope this doesn't sound greedy, but neither of us is getting rich from this, plus I have zero medical insurance here.) If you want to try some I can have her box up two or three tubes and you can send her a check or use PayPal.

[Metaldraft in reply to E2-Guy]

Thanks so much on your return you know I’m wondering if we could do Zelle with your daughter if not ok will do transaction through PayPal.

[Metaldraft]

Hey ron hope thing are going great with you.I was wondering if a RO at a major hospital can deny you treatment if i decided preferred treatment of estrogel instead of soc of hospital treatments. Either I go somewhere else who thinks out of the box or private doctor. What is your take on this and by the way can we make arrangements of the product we discussed?Thanks as always

[E2-Guy in reply to Metaldraft]

I guess that any doctor can refuse to write a script for a patient. Since the 'gel' is not available in America anyway, it's a nonissue. He could give you a script for The Patch which is basically the same kind of therapy. Did you check to see if you can arrange a pickup at my daughter's home in Illinois? I'll have to ask her if she uses Zelle.

[Metaldraft in reply to E2-Guy]

Good day Ron I was hopping she could transport the tubes to my residence in New York what ever carrier is possible and I have no way of making contact with her as of yet.The patches have different doses so I wouldn’t know which one are correct for me.Thanks as always

[E2-Guy in reply to Metaldraft]

I will PM you.

[waihekeman]

ive been on Zolodex for 1 yr,..PSA came down from 105 down to 0.05 after about 4mths but the side effects have been horrendous, ive forgotten what it feels to be 'normal' and I can't take it any more. I am fascinated by the tE2 as everything I read said that estrogen is the enemy!im going to read RW,s book. your last post here was 8mths ago, are you still doing ok on the gel? Im in NZ and asking if its possible to send me some gel. I had last zoldex shot 2mths ago and will not be getting another so looking at options thanks in advance for any info Larry

[E2-Guy in reply to waihekeman]

Hi Larry,

Sorry to hear that the jabs are miserable. That is exactly why I refused to subject myself to that sh*t! I have been applying the Oestrogel (tE2) for 52 months now and consider it a 'wonder' hormone. Richard Wassersug has been using it for over 20 years and absolutely loves it. I posted my '51 month' tE2 update in April of this year.

There are some guys that believe that estrogen is a man's enemy probably because it has some feminizing effects such as boobs. I don't give a damn about the boobs (my only side effect) if it keeps my PCa sleeping! Prior to being taken off the market in 1985 due an increase in cardio vascular events, DES (an extremely effective, inexpensive oral 'estrogen' pill) was given to most men with advanced PCa when everything else failed. My Father and his two brothers all lived into their late 80s while primarily on DES. My dad's younger brothers were eventually put on Lupron injections when DES was banned and 'only' then did they begin feeling like crap!

If estradiol which is the most potent of the three major estrogens was so detrimental to a man, I seriously doubt that our thousands of 'ladyboys' here in Thailand would be using it. I'm not aware of any ladyboys who are using the E2 gel that are suffering or dying young.

E2 is responsible for maintaining bone health in both women and men and Zolodex/Lupron pretty much eliminate this vital hormone since E2 is aromatized from testosterone. The common side effects that many men suffer from while on the injections are similar to what women experience when going through menopause.

If you can't find this E2 gel in NZ I can arrange to send you some. Just PM me or email me at: [e-mail]

Best,

Ron

Tube of gel

[E2-Guy in reply to waihekeman]

Hi Larry,

Sorry to hear that the jabs are miserable. That is exactly why I refused to subject myself to that sh*t! I have been applying the Oestrogel (tE2) for 52 months now and consider it a 'wonder' hormone. Richard Wassersug has been using it for over 20 years and absolutely loves it. I posted my last blood test results on

There are some guys that believe that estrogen is a man's enemy probably because it has some feminizing effects such as boobs. I don't give a damn about the boobs (my only side effect) if it keeps my PCa sleeping! Prior to being taken off the market in 1985 due an increase in cardio vascular events, DES (an extremely effective, inexpensive oral 'estrogen' pill) was given to most men with advanced PCa when everything else failed. My Father and his two brothers all lived into their late 80s while primarily on DES. My dad's younger brothers were eventually put on Lupron injections when DES was banned and 'only' then did they begin feeling like crap!

If estradiol which is the most potent of the three major estrogens was so detrimental to a man, I seriously doubt that our thousands of 'ladyboys' here in Thailand would be using it. I'm not aware of any ladyboys who are using the E2 gel that are suffering or dying young.

E2 is responsible for maintaining bone health in both women and men and Zolodex/Lupron pretty much eliminate this important hormone since E2 is aromatized from testosterone. The common side effects that many men suffer from while on the injections are similar to what women experience when going through menopause.

If you are unable to find Oestrogel in NZ I can arrange to send you some. PM me or contact me on my email address: [e-mail]

Best,

Ron

Tube of gel