Sixth transdermal E2 update - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer
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Sixth transdermal E2 update

ronronHU
ronronHU

Just received my latest blood test results which I am quite pleased with; however, the numbers are somewhat surprising. I have been using the same lab for several years so I don't think there is a significant amount of error. Three months ago I decided to reduce my daily dosage of gel by about 25% since I was happy with my numbers, but curious to see if a lesser amount would alter them. My PSA is unchanged (0.004 to 0.003); however, my T has gone from 10 to 91, and my E2 has gone down to 47 from 174. I will probably go back to my previous dosage since my T is currently well above the castrate range and I'm afraid that my PSA will begin to rise. Still no side effects other than some gynecomastia and nipple tenderness. The boobs seem to have stopped growing and the tenderness is subsiding.

28 Replies
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Great results Ron, congratualtions. I am VERY interested in starting the patches when time comes. Right now, I am looking into trying the metformin therapy and see if it has any effect on the rising psa. My next approach would be the estrogen, patches or gel. Congratulations again.

ronronHU
ronronHU
in reply to Ahk1

Thanks Ahk1. If you would like more info regarding my use of the gel don't hesitate to message me. I am loving the stuff...it is easier to use than brushing your teeth and not a whole lot more costly. Dries in minutes, no skin rash, no hot flashes/flushes, no bone density loss, no muscle mass loss, no fatigue, no mood swings, no cognitive impairment...just a little pair or boobies which are no big deal!

Ahk1
Ahk1
in reply to ronronHU

Thanks again Ron for your offer. I will certainly contact you.

fco1969
fco1969
in reply to ronronHU

Hola ronron Te escribo desde Barcelona.

Estoy inyectando a Eligard Quarterly, hace

14 meses Un desastre. No puedo con mi cuerpo.

Mi médico me ha dicho que tengo que inyectarme hasta

3 años

No había escuchado nada sobre el gel. Es posible que

¿No lo prescribes aquí? ¿Me puede dar información?

Gracias

ronronHU
ronronHU
in reply to fco1969

No entiendo español.

fco1969
fco1969
in reply to ronronHU

FORGIVES

Hi Ronron. I write to you from Barcelona.

I'm injecting Eligard Quarterly, ago

14 months A disaster. I can not with my body.

My doctor has told me that I have to inject myself until

3 years old

I had not heard anything about the gel. It is possible that

Do not prescribe it here? Can you give me information?

Thank you

ronronHU
ronronHU
in reply to fco1969

I'm sorry that I didn't understand your Spanish reply...thank you for translating into English. If you read my profile you should be able to understand how the gel works. It has been working very well for me and it is extremely easy to use. It is made in France by Besins and you should be able to buy it in Europe. The cost should be between $20 and $30 per tube and one tube lasts me about a month. If you have any questions, don't hesitate to ask...I'm here for you if I can help. Un saludo, sabiendo que, como siempre, seguiré estando a vuestra disposición. Ron

fco1969
fco1969
in reply to ronronHU

THANK YOU VERY MUCH

Do you also get an assay of SHBG?

ronronHU
ronronHU
in reply to Tall_Allen

Allen, I have not had that test yet...will do so soon. Thank you for your utmost concern for all of us on this forum!

Hi Ron,

Are you tracking free testosterone?

"The castration level of FT was established at 1.7 pg/mL." [1]

&, as if we don't have enough to worry about:

"Elevated serum E2/fT ratio is a precipitating factor for recurrent varicose veins in male patients." [2]

-Patrick

[1] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/282...

[2] ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/257...

ronronHU
ronronHU
in reply to pjoshea13

Thank you Patrick for the heads up info...appreciate your reply! I will include that in my next blood work.

Your program, which is working very well for you---shows how sensitive, the drugs are.

Actually your numbers are un-remarkable. Which means there is that much of a change expected. Which was not expected by you.

If T is your ultimate target, then going back to full use will bring your T to Castrate Levels.

There is a standard ratio, between T and E2, as well as a normal range, with a low and high. But, in your case, we do not have a normal ratio, because you are adding E2. I think by going back to full E2 use will bring your T back to where it was.

Nalakrats

ronronHU
ronronHU
in reply to Nalakrats

Thank you Nalakrats for your reply and the helpful explanation. Happy to have you back on the forum again, and to hear that you still have this beast sleeping without using drugs! We miss you while you're catching up on your beauty-rest, praying, gardening, impressing the "babes" in the gym with your 300 lb bench presses, fishing, gator hunting, doing 'whatever' with those "damn good daily orgasms" (thanks to the 759 T level), etc!

Nalakrats
Nalakrats
in reply to ronronHU

The T level you site--was last year---I do Yearly intermittent ADT---2019 I am on, and I go back off ADT this mid-December--for another year--->hoping my T comes back to my 2018 levels. Yet whether on or off. I do maintain PSA Undetectability.

Nalakrats

cigafred
cigafred
in reply to Nalakrats

Elsewhere you noted the continued use of dutasteride during your off years. As I posted on this site:

If one is trying to prevent prostate cancer cells from becoming insensitive to ADT, then is it wise to continue dutasteride while on the off cycle? If per Snuffy most of the support for PC cells comes from DHT not T, then just as stopping T reduces the DHT, is not dutasteride acting in a similar way and thus preventing the ADT holiday from resensitizing [wrong word as pointed out elsewhere] the PC cells? Obviously I have no understanding of the chemistry involved, but this seems logical to me, and the AVIAS trial showed no benefit to continuing dutasteride while on holiday.

(Apologies for thread hijacking.)

Thanks for posting your intermittent schedule, this is very helpful information. Great to hear that you maintain PSA undetectability.

I'm curious if you are receiving 3 month Lupron shots? I just finished Docetaxel in September and have been on Lurpon since April, 2018. I have asked doc when I can take a break being my PSA is in undetectable range. . His reply is, no sooner than a year, so I asked about receiving 1 month Lurpon versus 3 month in January so I can take a break in April but he says there's no difference regarding the lasting affects of getting Lupron out of your body, yet I read the side effects on 1 month leave your body quicker.

Any information you can provide regarding this is very much appreciated.

Thanks and enjoy your intermittent holiday brother!

Well your doctor has no evidence--as I do not think there are valid tests, between the one month and the 3 month, to prove if the one month clears faster.

Normal clear time is about 6 months. the only way to clear quicker, is to do what I do. I use the Vantas Implant--which is good for about 15 months. The Lutenizing agent in the Implant puts out a daily dose. And there are no shots involved---when I go on a vacation, which will be this mid-December--the Doctor just removes the implant. The clear time in my case is about 60 days--as this is when my Testosterone makes a jump. You validate the clear time by the measurement of your T. In 2018 month 2, I was about 250, up from 10, and by month 6, I was at @700. The disadvantage of the implant, is you want to get at least a year out of it, before pulling it. Insurance will not pay for it if you try to use it on and off every 3 months I.E.

Nalakrats

That's certainly interesting Ron. It goes to show the importance of monitoring blood test results and Estriadol dosage and acting accordingly.

ronronHU
ronronHU
in reply to Alicat1

Amazing how rubbing a little bit of this E2 gel on a guy's skin can have such a drastic effect on hormone levels.

Great results Ron. Happy for you. And you can stay in and play with your tits... Win win. Cheers

ronronHU
ronronHU
in reply to TFBUNDY

The 'working' girls here in Thailand enjoy fondling them also!

Break60
Break60
in reply to ronronHU

Ron

Haha! Working girls! Like I could benefit from their services with no package! But they do give a great body massage!

One reason I use the patches is to ( I believe) more accurately control dosage as we’ve discussed. Keep on truckin!

Bob

ronronHU
ronronHU
in reply to Break60

Hey bro,

There are other ways of 'dealing' with the working girls even with a kaput package...don't throw the towel in too quickly! Something to be said for 'happy endings'.

I think that I have my dosage dialed in fairly well with the gel as you can see by my hormone levels. According to Richard W. my previous blood level results were right in the money when I was using a 2½" long bead.

JDKotter
JDKotter
in reply to TFBUNDY

Okay that was funny

Ron, I have had to discontinue Xtandi and Firmagon use due to the development of coronary artery blockage. I am interested in the estrogen patches you are using because its my understanding they do not have the cardio side effects that other ADT drugs have. Is this your understanding as well?

ronronHU
ronronHU
in reply to joeguy

Joe, Transdermal estradiol [tE2] (I'm applying the gel form to my inner thighs on a daily basis) has a much lower cardiac event risk than oral estrogens since it is absorbed directly into the bloodstream and bipasses the liver. I am not very well versed on how it compares to the many other ADT drugs currently being prescribed; however, Richard Wassersug is the tE2 guru and I'm sure that he would be happy to discuss this with you. He lives in Vancouver and I can get you in contact with him if you would like. PM me if you want his contact info.

Break60
Break60
in reply to joeguy

If you read the patch trial ( google it) the patches had no more CV risk than standard ADT and had less osteoporosis risk than LHRHa like Lupron and it’s ilk.

Bob

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