Dairy products

[pjoshea13]

New study from Japan.

When I was diagnosed there was a clear association between dairy & PCa (particularly mortality). The smoking guns: calcium (inhibits hormonal vitamin D) & IGF-I (it promotes rapid growth in babies.) The years rolled by & suddenly, dairy was safe. & now?

Abstract

Dairy products have been indicated as a risk factor for prostate cancer. However, only a few epidemiological studies have reported dairy products as being a risk factor for prostate cancer in Japan, reporting contradictory results. We therefore investigated the association between the intake of dairy products and the occurrence of prostate cancer through a large-scale cohort study. The Japan Collaborative Cohort study analyzed approximately 110,000 residents from various Japanese districts who participated in our questionnaire survey during 1988–1990. The subjects of the present study were 26,464 men (age range: 40–79 years) from 24 districts wherein cancer incidence was reported. Their clinical course was followed up until 2009. Hazard ratios (HRs) were calculated using Cox's proportional hazards model, adjusted for age, survey area, family history of prostate cancer, body mass index, and total energy intake. For diet, we calculated the HRs associated with intermediate and high consumption of dairy products and compared them with those associated with low consumption. There were 412 cases of prostate cancer in the survey population. As dairy products, milk, yogurt, cheese, and butter were evaluated. Among them, milk consumption was associated with a significant risk (HR = 1.37, p = 0.009) and a dose-dependent response (p for trend = 0.009) adjusted for age and family history of prostate cancer, stratified by area. Milk and yogurt consumption showed a significantly positive risk and a dose–response relationship adjusted for age, family history of prostate cancer, body mass index, and total energy intake, stratified by area. In summary, a high intake of dairy products such as milk increased the risk of developing prostate cancer in Japanese men.

1 INTRODUCTION

Although the incidence of prostate cancer in Western countries has always been high, this was in contrast to that in Japan in the past. However, the incidence of prostate cancer in Japan has increased rapidly. Recently, prostate cancer has become one of the most common cancers in men. While many epidemiological studies, including cohort studies, have conducted investigations on this cancer in the Western world, only relatively few studies have been reported from Japan.1-7

Prostate cancer is one of the androgen-dependent cancers. Age, family history of prostate cancer, and race are well-known risk factors. In addition, total energy intake and obesity have been reported as risk factors. Intake of dairy products has also been indicated as a risk factor.8-10 Although several case–control and cohort studies have reported a positive correlation between the occurrence of prostate cancer and dairy product consumption, the results have been contradictory. In approximately 50% of these studies, the intake of dairy products was found to be a significant risk factor.8-10 Recent meta-analyses showed positive associations between dairy product consumption and prostate cancer development,11, 12 and many studies showed significant relationships between the intake of dairy products and occurrence of advanced prostate cancer.13, 14

In Japan, dairy products are not part of the traditional diet. However, the intake of dairy products has increased recently. According to The National Health and Nutrition Survey in Japan, intake of dairy products per day for each person increased rapidly from 103.5 g in 1975 to 122.2 g in 1988 and increased gradually to 125.1 g in 2009.15 Several decades ago, some Japanese studies investigated the association between the intake of dairy products and occurrence of prostate cancer.1, 2 A case–control study reported a positive but nonsignificant risk associated with milk consumption through a semi-quantitative food frequency questionnaire.6 A cohort study showed a significant positive risk associated with dairy product consumption and a dose–response relationship.7 Therefore, we investigated the relationship between the risk of developing prostate cancer and consuming dairy products in a large-scale cohort study in Japan.

4 DISCUSSION

In Japan, only a few epidemiological studies have investigated the incidence of prostate cancer,1-7 and Hirayama conducted a cohort study a long time ago.1 With regard to dairy products, that study showed that high milk intake did not increase the risk of prostate cancer. However, some case–control studies reported that consumption of dairy products, especially milk, is a positive risk factor for the development of prostate cancer.1, 2

In the last 10 years, many epidemiological studies have been conducted,5-7, 20-32 including ours’.29-32 Dietary habits,6, 7, 23-28, 32 especially the intake of dairy products,6 were investigated. A case–control study that used a semi-quantitative food frequency questionnaire reported a positive but non-significant risk with milk consumption.5 The Japan Public Health Center–Based Prospective Study showed significant positive risk and dose-response relationships for the consumption of dairy products.6

In the present study, the consumption of milk and yogurt was a risk factor for prostate cancer, and milk intake showed a significant dose–response relationship. While cheese and butter consumption showed positive correlations, statistical analyses deemed these relationships not to be significant.

Concerning the association between dairy product intake and prostate cancer development, contrasting results have been reported in literature. A recent meta-analysis showed that all relative risks (RRs) of high consumption and dose–response for total prostate cancer ranged from 1.68 to 1.09 (1.07 per 400 g/d) for total dairy products. For milk (whole, low-fat, and skim milk considered separately), the RRs ranged from 1.50 to 0.92 (95% CI: 1.06, 0.98 per 200 g/d), and for cheese, the RRs ranged from 1.18 to 0.74 (1.10 per 50 g/d).11 Another study reported that the RR of increasing risk of total prostate cancer for the intake of total dairy products was 1.07 (95% CI: 1.02, 1.12) per 400 g/d; the RR for total milk intake was 1.03 (95% CI: 1.00, 1.07) per 200 g/d, and the RR for low-fat milk intake was 1.06 (95% CI: 1.01, 1.11) per 200 g/d; the RR for cheese intake was 1.09 (95% CI: 1.02, 1.18) per 50 g/d, and the RR for dietary calcium was 1.05 (95% CI: 1.02, 1.09) per 400 mg/d.12

Several studies tried to examine which components of dairy products may be associated with prostate cancer. A high fat diet was reported to be possibly associated with prostate cancer development.33 They are classified as animal/vegetable fat or saturated/unsaturated fatty acids in several ways. The possible risks of the development and progression of prostate cancer after the consumption of total and specific types of fat were investigated.33, 34 Dairy products contain large quantities of saturated fatty acids. Some ecological studies reported a close relationship between prostate cancer-related death and fat and calorie intake. In other studies, although a relationship between fat intake and prostate cancer incidence was found, the cancer risk disappeared after adjustment for total energy intake.33 A meta-analysis of the relationship between fatty acid intake and prostate cancer development showed that the evidence was limited, and no definite relationship could be reached between the consumption of total fat, saturated fatty acids, monounsaturated fatty acids, or polyunsaturated fatty acids and overall prostate cancer development and also “advanced/high-grade” prostate cancer development.35 However, recent studies reported that each kind of fatty acids may have heterogeneous effects,36-38 which might explain the contradictory results of the role of dietary fat regarding prostate cancer development.38 In our results, the HR of milk intake was slightly decreased after adjusting for BMI. The risk associated with the intake of dairy products may thus be influenced by total energy intake.

Calcium and vitamin D in dairy products are suggested to play important roles in the pathogenesis of prostate cancer. It is hypothesized that the intake of high amounts of calcium inhibits the synthesis of 1,25(OH)2 vitamin D, thus increasing the risk of developing prostate cancer.1 Epidemiologically, the Health Professional Follow-up Study reported that calcium was a risk factor for prostate cancer incidence independent of fat intake, especially for advanced and metastatic cancer (RR = 1.6 in advanced cases, RR = 1.8 in metastatic cases).10 In the Cancer Prevention Study II Nutrition Cohort, total calcium intake including supplements other than the intake through diet was examined, and the relationship with prostate cancer was investigated. However, another study similarly examining calcium intake concluded that moderate intake of calcium did not markedly increase prostate cancer risk.39 A positive relationship of total calcium and dairy calcium intakes, but not nondairy calcium or supplemental calcium intakes, with total prostate cancer risk was reported. Additional intake of calcium from food supplements was associated with an increased risk of fatal prostate cancer.12 In Japan, as in the Western world, milk and dairy products are major dietary sources of calcium intake. Calcium and vitamin D, in concurrence with saturated fat in dairy products, favor the development of prostate cancer.

Insulin-like growth factor-1 (IGF-1) was suggested to be positively associated with the risk of prostate cancer in meta-analyses.40-42 High-energy intake43 and milk consumption44 may increase plasma IGF-1 levels. One study suggested a link between fat intake and prostate cancer involving IGF-1, insulin, or leptin.45 Moreover, another study showed that vitamin D levels increased circulating IGF-1 levels.46

In our previous study, unfortunately, we could not show a correlation between serum IGF-1 levels and prostate cancer incidence.31 The largest pooled analysis, including our previous study, investigating the association between circulating concentrations of IGFs (IGF-I, IGF-II, IGFBP-1, IGFBP-2, and IGFBP-3) and prostate cancer risk, provided strong evidence that IGF-I is highly likely to be involved in prostate cancer development.47

This study has some limitations. A drastic change in the methods to diagnose prostate cancer has occurred in the last 30 years. Prostate-specific antigen (PSA) has been used in clinical practice since 1987, just before our baseline survey (1988–1990). The importance of PSA as a screening test has increased in the last decade worldwide, including Japan. Recently, many patients without any lower urinary tract symptoms were diagnosed with prostate cancer based on high PSA levels. Some municipalities in Japan performed mass screening for prostate cancer based on PSA levels, but no area surveyed in our study was included.

Moreover, our study did not collect detailed clinical information on cancer cases, such as information on serum PSA levels, tumor-lymph node-metastasis (TNM) stage, or pathological grade, because we obtained information about cancer incidence not from local hospitals but from local cancer registries. Thus, we could not investigate the risk adjusted for the characteristics of prostate cancer. The participants who visited a hospital regularly for some chronic disease might have had a higher probability of undergoing PSA testing. In our study, the opportunities to take a PSA test were not recorded. We tried to assess the risk of dairy products adjusted for diseases (diabetes mellitus, hypertension, and gastric ulcer) under treatment at the time of the baseline survey, but the results did not change (data not shown).

In summary, despite such limitations, our cohort study suggests that the intake of dairy products is an important risk factor for prostate cancer development in Japan. In particular, the data may provide further clues regarding the effects of high intake of fat, calcium, and IGFs. Further studies are needed to clarify which components of dairy products contribute to this increased risk. The consumption of dairy products is worthy of consideration when comparing Japanese and Western diets regarding the risk of developing prostate cancer.

-Patrick

[1] onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi...

Dairy products and the risk of developing prostate cancer: A large-scale cohort study (JACC Study) in Japan

Kazuya Mikami, Kotaro Ozasa, Tsuneharu Miki, Yoshiyuki Watanabe, Mitsuru Mori, Tatsuhiko Kubo, Koji Suzuki, Kenji Wakai, Masahiro Nakao, … See all authors

First published: 04 October 2021 doi.org/10.1002/cam4.4233

Funding information:

This study has been supported by Grants-in-Aid for Scientific Research from the Ministry of Education, Culture, Sports, Science and Technology of Japan (MEXT) (MonbuKagaku-sho); Grants-in-Aid for Scientific Research on Priority Areas of Cancer; and Grants-in-Aid for Scientific Research on Priority Areas of Cancer Epidemiology from MEXT (Nos. 61010076, 62010074, 63010074, 1010068, 2151065, 3151064, 4151063, 5151069, 6279102, 11181101, 17015022, 18014011, 20014026, 20390156, 26293138), and JSPS KAKENHI No.16H06277. This research was also supported by Grant–in–Aid from the Ministry of Health, Labour and Welfare, Health and Labor Sciences research grants, Japan (Comprehensive Research on Cardiovascular Disease and Life-Style Related Diseases: H20–Junkankitou [Seishuu]–Ippan–013; H23–Junkankitou [Seishuu]–Ippan–005); an Intramural Research Fund (22-4-5) for Cardiovascular Diseases of National Cerebral and Cardiovascular Center; Comprehensive Research on Cardiovascular Diseases and Life-Style Related Diseases (H26-Junkankitou [Seisaku]-Ippan-001) and H29–Junkankitou [Seishuu]–Ippan–003 and 20FA1002.

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Abstract

Dairy products have been indicated as a risk factor for prostate cancer. However, only a few epidemiological studies have reported dairy products as being a risk factor for prostate cancer in Japan, reporting contradictory results. We therefore investigated the association between the intake of dairy products and the occurrence of prostate cancer through a large-scale cohort study. The Japan Collaborative Cohort study analyzed approximately 110,000 residents from various Japanese districts who participated in our questionnaire survey during 1988–1990. The subjects of the present study were 26,464 men (age range: 40–79 years) from 24 districts wherein cancer incidence was reported. Their clinical course was followed up until 2009. Hazard ratios (HRs) were calculated using Cox's proportional hazards model, adjusted for age, survey area, family history of prostate cancer, body mass index, and total energy intake. For diet, we calculated the HRs associated with intermediate and high consumption of dairy products and compared them with those associated with low consumption. There were 412 cases of prostate cancer in the survey population. As dairy products, milk, yogurt, cheese, and butter were evaluated. Among them, milk consumption was associated with a significant risk (HR = 1.37, p = 0.009) and a dose-dependent response (p for trend = 0.009) adjusted for age and family history of prostate cancer, stratified by area. Milk and yogurt consumption showed a significantly positive risk and a dose–response relationship adjusted for age, family history of prostate cancer, body mass index, and total energy intake, stratified by area. In summary, a high intake of dairy products such as milk increased the risk of developing prostate cancer in Japanese men.

[Garp41]

I know nothing, but it seems to me there must be growth factors in milk, cause' babies need them.Doug

[cesces]

Interesting.

But Japan has some fairly distinct dietary patterns that make it hard to generalize to those of us raised and existing in Western dietary environments.

[kapakahi in reply to cesces]

This is true. Dairy traditionally played a small role in the Japanese diet, which was centered around meat, seafood and vegetables, sometimes eggs and dairy but very little of it. I have to wonder if the change in the Japanese diet over the last century or so, as they gradually began to include more Western foods - sweet yogurt drinks are a big thing in Japan now - might have collided with their ages-old dietary patterns that their bodies were accustomed to, much like Europeans brought some deadly dietary ingredients and patterns to Native Americans and Hawaiians. So the association of dairy and PC in Americans might not be so strong as it seems to be in Japan? I note too that the researchers link full-fat dairy to PC, and I guess non-fat dairy is covered by the calcium link? But calcium and vitamin D supplements are also risky? Or not? Were all of these studies were of Japanese, or of all ethnicities and nationalities? The studies and conclusions seem kind of all over the map, and the only thing they feel safe in stating is that dairy and PC are associated in the Japanese. Which just doesn't tell us much about anybody else.

[treedown]

So what is high intake 400g? High is such an ambiguous term and somewhat relative. High for Japanese or high for world standards? Are they saying we should not consume any dairy or the amt we consume is proportional to the risk? Would a society that traditionally did not eat dairy and then started consuming in increasing quantities by at more risk than say one that has consumed dairy for centuries. Is there more PC per capita in places like Switzerland, with all its wonderful cheeses? Or in WI in the US than in Japan? It makes reference to cheese in one paragraph but the rest mention milk and yogurt. Sorry but as much as they interest me I am not sure these reports have any real value. Its probably just me and my limited ability to understand its significance. Thank you very much for taking the time to post I may need to learn more as a whole to gain more insight from individual studies.

[pjoshea13 in reply to treedown]

My view is that calcium intake from dairy should be limited to <500 mg / day.

And that full-fat cheese is safest in terms of IGF-I. Look for 'triple-creme'. It's tasty & you don't need much to be satisfied.

Of course, those who believe that fat is is the problem will disagree.

-Patrick

[treedown in reply to pjoshea13]

I appreciate your insight.

[treedown in reply to pjoshea13]

I have been taking calcium supplement after my dexa scan 800mg with Vit D and K, do you feel this is unnecessary or even hazardous? I also consume small amts of dairy in the form of yogurt and cheese. The supplement clearly puts me over the dairy I consume would keep me under. I have been the supplement for a couple months.

[addicted2cycling in reply to treedown]

treedown, I'm walk'n on water so no cycling. You keep on spinning the cranks, hiking and enjoy that cheese = good energy. 😀

[treedown in reply to addicted2cycling]

Sent you a PM. I always appreciate knowledgeable opinions. My dexa scan showed some osteopenia in my femoral necks and MO said take calcium but I am very much on the fence on supplements these days and if what I get from food is enough I would stop, especially if it could do harm. Of course without being sure of the source of the osteopenia, ADT, lack of previous calcium intake, etc its hard to be sure the right way to address it. Ever seen one of those bikes with giant yellow wheels? You could be riding on the water

[CAMPSOUPS]

Unfortunately still don't find a concrete association. But enough has been brought up to warrant attention and moderation at the least. This could be lumped into animal fat and the concerns of such.

I am more interested in IF any random samples of milk(regular and organic) etc, have been taken to test for levels of hormone and hormone associated drugs/supplements in milk and levels of presence. And naturally occurring hormones in cows milk. Subsequent studies.

I witnessed cattle industry feeding first hand. Bag after bag of this that and the other thing(mineral pellets, supplements, antibiotics, etc.)added/ combined in the feed conveyor with the actual food (alfalfa, corn stalks, etc.).

Growth hormones but not sure if dairy cattle get growth hormones. They might if the farmer includes in his business selling the over flow of calves born to the herd.

Since roughly the 1960's and prolific in the 70's, fatten them up for market meant growth hormone and every type of supplemental pellet available to add to the roughage.

Has some relevance to insuring maximum milk production too more than likely. Sorry speculating with that one.

With a couple of estimated expiration dates looming over my head a major diet change at this time wont change my outcome nor would it have changed where I am today had one been implemented earlier in life. Genetics, peeing out broken strands of DNA got me where I am. But moderation, good health is always good in the long run overall. A better QOL for the time left.

[pjoshea13 in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

The FDA-approved hormone for increased milk yield is bovine somatotropin (bST)

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to pjoshea13]

Eeeeew. Confirmation.

[tsim in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

probably still labeled "All Natural"

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to tsim]

None the less nothing substantiated. You can find the research that's been done.This comment sums it up pretty well.

Bovine growth hormone levels are not significantly higher in milk from rBGH-treated cows. On top of this, BGH is not active in humans, so even if it were absorbed from drinking milk, it wouldn't be expected to cause health effects.

[Shooter1]

Maybe great info for those who have not had aPca, but we already have a heavy dose of this condition... Is dairy going to make it worse???? Or are we just stuck with it weather we consume dairy or not..??

[greatjohn in reply to Shooter1]

I’m not giving up my cheese and occasional milkshakes. Life has got to be about life or it ain’t life🥳🥳🥳

Anecdotally I knew someone on here and his wife and she had him on a very strict diet. He’s gone already and I’m still here and I eat what I love. The most important part of living is to enjoy it!

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to greatjohn]

I'm with you.There is also not just the taste buds but the ritual if you will. The enhancement of a moment with food.

My wife creating a great spread almost like Tapas to enjoy as we watch a movie as one of many examples of the pleasure of food.

Occasional Vanilla malt shake for me.

People I knew at work thought I was a sushi snob or a fine food Connoisseur and were surprised that when I traveled to the South business receipts for Waffle House would show up---I had to explain I like all food.

[greatjohn in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

Sounds like me, I like everything from beef Wellington to collard greens with pork and pecan pie…🥳🥳🥳

[addicted2cycling in reply to greatjohn]

gj, keep on what u r do'n and enjoy!!!!

Wife and I are on our cruise right now. Dr. Onik has me getting an Axumin Scan 1 week from today. It's 3:30AM and I just got back from 1 hour walking the decks and stairs while EVERYONE but crew are sleeping. Going High on the Hog and throwing all caution out the verandah's sliding door. Bloody Mary's, Merlot, had some outstand beef, veggies, curry dishes, SWEETS!!!! Just wanting to live and not simply exist.

[greatjohn in reply to addicted2cycling]

That sounds a lot like my prescription for life! Enjoy! I hope to hear back from Dr. Onik today. I’ve sent in the form he’s had me sign online. Wishing you a bon voyage!gJohn

[addicted2cycling in reply to greatjohn]

👍👍 today with Dr. O.

At this moment we are docking at Ocean Cay, MSC's private island that they transformed from an industrial dump site into a Marine Reserve.

[Longterm101 in reply to greatjohn]

Hi Greatjohn.

Any update from Dr Onik ? How are things

[greatjohn in reply to Longterm101]

I finally found out he's out of the country...supposed to be back in less than a week. I am lining up an Axumin Pet Scan ( which he requested)...and hoping to meet with him as soon as it's done and decide on going further once he sees it.gJohn

Thanks so much for your interest. I'll try to keep everyone abreast of updates. My PSA without doing anything ....has come down from 1017 to 864...over just about 3 weeks...so that's a "promising" report. I'm hoping to call this a "miracle" and go from here! Faith is an amazing thing.

[addicted2cycling in reply to greatjohn]

greatjohn,

Wife and I just returned home from our cruise and I'll have my AXUMIN on Monday then see what Dr. O wants to do. Glad the PSA is coming down so here's 👍👍 for continued decline.

[greatjohn in reply to addicted2cycling]

🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻🙏🏻

[treedown in reply to addicted2cycling]

Welcome back to dry land. Interesting Strava posts. Looked like a lot of treading water and swimming in circles

[addicted2cycling in reply to treedown]

Yo Ho, Yo Ho now it's back to spinning cranks I go.

[treedown in reply to addicted2cycling]

I have to think if you had been on that boat long enough we would have started seeing a design

[addicted2cycling in reply to treedown]

Wife has plans for a week in January to be out on the water if all goes reasonably well so I'll start designing and ask the Captain if he'll cooperate. 🤣

[timotur]

I was a heavy milk drinker, but after PCa diagnosis, cut intake down to one quart/wk. The epidemiological studies are all over the place, but the connection shown between the milk protein, casein, and IGF factor is significant.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[Shooter1 in reply to timotur]

That one sure shows milk protein in bad for prostate cancer. I still use some, but not nearly what I did...

[Hidden in reply to timotur]

I think the link is casein...what other proteins contain casein? Milk, yogurt cheese..

[timotur in reply to Hidden]

Any dairy derivative has casein...Cream, half and half, yogurt and sour cream are other high-protein dairy sources of casein. Ice cream, butter, cheese and pudding also contain it. Foods made with these products — such as cream-based soups, sherbet, pudding and custard — are also casein-rich. Casein protein is also available in powder form. Other foods with less casein-- margarine, tuna, dairy-free cheese, non-dairy coffee creamer, semisweet chocolate, cereal bars, cheese-flavored chips and snack crackers, processed meats and ghee may have traces of casein protein. Baked goods are another food of which to be wary because many contain milk or buttermilk. Dairy milk alternatives — such as coconut, almond and soy milks — do not contain casein.

I read goat-milk has a less harmful form of casein with regard to PCa progression/recurrence, so I use that instead of cow's milk.

[maley2711]

I give little credence to most diet studies...they seem to be all over the place. Moderation in everything is a better approach IMHO.

[Hidden]

Interesting article. In 2004, during my six month chemotherapy with hormone therapy clinical trial, my research medical oncologist told me zero dairy products. His research indicated that dairy products caused a small uptick in the promotion of prostate cancer and he wanted to remove that possibility in his treatment research.

GD

[Grumpyswife]

My husband would happily drink Guinness instead of milk anyday.

[Cooolone]

Inconclusive...

Why?

Because did they track "every" food consumed during the time of questioning?

This is the one area that is almost impossible to validate!

Do French men have a higher incidence of PCa? If not, then why? The fat intake in that diet is well above other normal diets yet the paradox that they are healthy too and don't even have a higher incidence of arterial disease which is weird when the amount of butter in their diet is considered, lol...

Or how about German men?

The Japanese and their soy diet...

There's too many contradictory factors involved when it comes to diet, let alone following data that has absolutely no controls other than what a person will write on a questionier...

I'll eat my Yarlsberg, and I'll have my Yogurt, and Ice Cream when the mood or brain wants it. That includes apple wood smoked bacon, my aged rib-eyes, and more!!! And oh, hot spicy food too, I make a mean Cajun Gumbo hahaha

I don't tend to spit in the wind, but I'm certainly not giving up my smiles or enjoying the ride... Sometimes, the soul needs to be considered and factored in too!

[Seebs9 in reply to Cooolone]

Bacon!!!

[Cooolone in reply to Seebs9]

Lol, everything is better with bacon!

[swwags in reply to Cooolone]

And what of the role of genetics as well?

[dixiedad]

I have osteopenia due to radiation therapy. My urologist put me on 1000 mg calcium citrate daily. I also take 6000 IU D3.

[Muffin2019]

I am taking monthly shots of xgeva so my calcium has to stay in normal range, it goes to every 3 months next year. I take supplements and eat cheese and vegetables to keep it up there. I do not drink milk but still enjoy certain cheeses. As far as diet I have cut back to 3 eggs a week and one or two portions of beef, a side effect us that my cholesterol is the lowest in years.

[jfoesq]

If, in fact, dairy is a contributing factor to PC, does that mean, ipso facto, that it is a "bad" food choice for those of us who ALREADY have PC, and especially those of us with MetPC?It would seem to make sense, but things that seem to make sense aren't always true.

[bud_manning in reply to jfoesq]

In this case it is true. All animal foods, dairy, meat, and poultry. They are high in an amino acid, methionine. Cancer loves it. I am stage 4, terminal, mCRPC. SOC can't help me. I grew up on a dairy farm. Hard to give up my milk, cheese, beef, pork, chicken, and eggs. I have to keep asking myself, "Do you want that steak or do you want to live?" It is that critical.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

[jfoesq in reply to bud_manning]

I guess I will reduce my intake of milk and dairy. Thx for the info and wishing the best for you.

[swwags]

I know I'm in the minority here, but my exposure to dairy is very limited (organic unsalted butter) and occasionally or perhaps rarely, cheese, but my thought for the past two decades has been that drinking milk from another species of animal is just disgusting (to me). Yes, once I gave it some thought.

We're also the only species that drinks milk once weened (Thank you Mr. Kellogg?)

That and looking at all the antibiotics that farmers slather on cows teets before slapping on the milk machines gives me the Willys.

Then add to that the amount of growth hormone in a cows diet and one can see why the average size of an NFL defensive lineman went from 225 in the 70's to 300 lbs now.

OK so all of this is unrelated to the research and yes I grew up on milk but I just can't anymore and not for the reasons in the study.....

[bud_manning]

The problem with milk is an amino acid , methionine. Cancer cells love it as much as glucose or glutamine. Methionine content is high in dairy, meat, and poultry. I have been researching the idea of starving cancer, cutting off metabolic supply lines. Most of the reports of progress against stage 4 cancer list a plant based diet as part of the protocol. ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/275...

Cancer gets a start and grows crazy when we through diet and life style provide a perfect environment for it.

[CAMPSOUPS]

You da man.

Yep we all be a heap of evil milk and animal fed compost just feeding cancer non-stop.

Time to chase the "starve cancer" rainbow.

I need my essential amino acids. I guess I will die of cancer with them rather than die from not having them.

You have the answers. From Jane still. Simple as ABC. Your idea of that is.

[bud_manning in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

No I don't have the answer. I am grasping at straws. SOC does not have the answer for me either. My MO was ready to do palliative care. Not quite ready to lay down and die. I have been through three years of torture treatment and the cancer has only progressed. Nothing has worked so far but i keep chasing rainbows. Those of you who seem to have the answer be nice if you share.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to bud_manning]

I really owe you my sincere apology.

Yes, we need to look outside the box at times with our stage 4 dx. We are all palliative in truth just buying time.

You I noticed are especially having a difficult time. I am fortunate to be “riding a wave” for the time being of no progression under my treatment. Things are in the “simmering” mode but can change at any time.

I sincerely hope you will get your’s knocked down so you can have some breathing room and continue to search for tools to get it under control.

[bud_manning in reply to CAMPSOUPS]

Apology accepted, though I did not feel it was needed. Thank you. Truth be told we are all living with considerable anger over this death sentence we are under. My poor wife catches it on my end. She is very gracious. I am continuing to research, seeking that answer. It is there. Both Joe Tippins and Jane McLelland f b sites report dozens of stage 4 cancers, tough ones, achieving full remission. Sadly, only a hand full were advanced PCa. But there were some. That means it is possible. There was not enough detail given to attribute effect. The plant based diet seems to be one important factor, common in many success reports. Disrupting cancer metabolism, starving it is another. That is what ADT does. Androgen is used by PCa in a metabolic process to produce glutamine, a favored food. A number of cancer research centers are looking at treating PCa through metabolic disruption. Johns Hopkins is one. They have developed a drug which selectively disrupts PCa glutamine metabolism, eliminating the need for ADT. We will never see it bc no one will pay for the trials. So I experiment to find an alternative. then do my own trial, N= 1. I pray your beast sleeps indefinitely. In the end God is probably the only sure answer any of us have.

[CAMPSOUPS in reply to bud_manning]

What a nice response. You're too kind.You speak some truth's.

The metabolic factor is important. Combined with the mountain of variables in our personal and our PCa's genetics some of us might see results when we add a combination of approaches.

Again I truly hope the best for you. For all of us for that matter.