I am writing to this forum concerning my husbands supplements. He started Trelstar and Casodex in February, now only taking Trelstar. He has a cardio-vascular disease so he is also taking a babyAspirin, Atorvastatin and Metoprolol. He takes a multivitamin every morning with 20 ug D-vitamin and also Calcichew with 800 IE vitamin D, prescribed by his doctor) Also he takes one Broccomax ( 35mg Sulfuraphane) and one Curcumine 400 mg. My question is if it would be safe to add Nattokinase ( 2000 fu) at nighttime in order to avoid the negative effects of ADT on his heart? Is he taking to much vitamin D and would VK be of any benefit?
Sorry for all my questions, but I know of several very "wise men" here?
Best wishes!
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tasmanien13
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I can answer the question about Vit D but will leave the Nattokinase question to PJoshea or Nalakrats to answer.Vitamin D should always be taken with Vit K2. Why ? Because Vit D alone can cause calcium deposition in major arteries. If Vit K2 is added, it prevents this calcium deposition in blood vessels.
A preparation which contains both Vit D3 and K2 ( MK7Menaquinone) is a better choice.
Besides the above benefit, Vit K2 also has some anti cancer effect. See below:
(1) "D may be too high?" The only way to know if Vit D dose is right is to check serum Vit D level. A right dose is one which keeps Vit D level above 50 ng/ml but below 100 ng/ml.Let the blood test guide your dose.
(2) Yes. You are right. Natto contains Vit K2.
Foer detailed information, please read website of Japanese Nattokinase association.
Regarding vitamin K, the form that is most helpful IMO is vitamin K2-7 because:
i) it is active in the body much longer (K1 is cleared quickly)
ii) K2-7 (menaquinone-7) has been associated with PCa benefit [1]
"Cancer risk reduction with increasing intake of menaquinones was more pronounced in men than in women, mainly driven by significant inverse associations with prostate ... and lung ... cancer."
One can get plenty of K2-7 from some aged cheeses, but a daily capsule might be more convenient. There is no advantage in taking more than the standard dose.
It is important for bone health to maintain vitamin K sufficiency.
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2000 FU is the standard dose for a nattokinase capsule. I know of one man who relied on that dose, but sadly it turned out to be insufficient. The key for establishing an optimal dose is the D-dimer blood test. If D-dimer is zero, there is no clotting activity. If it is elevated, that may be due to the body trying to get rid of a clot. Nattokinase can speed that up because the enzyme is similar to plasmin (the enzyme used in the body.) Wait a month or so between D-dimer tests to allow time for D-dimer to settle down.
***
800 IU vitamin D is not a high dose - particularly for Swedish latitudes. Those who take it here fall mostly into the 2,000-5,000 IU range. At those levels, men are trying to achieve a certain blood level & they periodically get blood tests.
In any case, if he has not been tested in the past, he should be tested now. He may be lower than you would expect.
Thank you Patrick! Doctors here in Sweden are really tied hard to SOC, also coming to supplements. I never heard anyone supplementing with K2 here, although it is needed together with D and calcium! My concern was also the combination of baby Aspirine and Nattokinase, maybe they work in different ways? Best wishes and greetings!
Aspirin and Natto have different mechanism of action. Baby aspirin is also beneficial not just for prevention of heart problem but also slowing growth of prostate cancer.Aspirin dissolves fibrin clots and thus, remove the layer of coating of platelets which occur around cancer cells in the blood. This exposes cancer cells and makes them visible to Macrophages ,phagocytes and NK cells...who then, eat the cancer cells up. Aspirin removes the stickiness of platelets.
Nattokinase dissolves fibrin, which forms most of a clot. The clot actually begins with the clumping together of platelets, but aspirin inhibits that. Low-dose aspirin is sufficient for that.
Nattokinase and low-dose aspirin can be thought of as being complementary.
Low-dose aspirin is not a problem for most, but some experience bleeding even at that dose.
The timing of nattokinase with respect to aspirin should not matter. Personally, I take nattokinase before bed, and if I were an aspirin user, I would take the aspirin with food.
It can happen in rare instances. There are cases reported of gastric bleeding merely by one tab of Aspirin alone. But it does not happen in most people.
The total D3 intake per day is 1600 IU, correct? That is a relatively low dose by the standards of many who take D3. You might want to test his levels to see if that amount is even sufficient to bring him to the desired level mentioned by LearnAll, as it almost surely would not be taking him over the higher end of that range.Many of us in more northerly latitudes take higher doses in winter, as the sun is not high enough in the sky to generate D via skin exposure, even at noon. Short exposure to midday sun in the summer should get levels right up.
Dunno about you but this thread is a perfect example of knowledgeable people unselfishly helping their brothers here in the group. For me it’s heartwarming to see this in it glory. These guys need a big 👍And 👏 ...and a heartfelt thanks. Feels like we should be putting some money in a jar or something. Makes me feel like serious , high quality , help is available, a helping hand if I need it.
Yes, it is an extraordinary place to go to when you feel all the anxiety overwhelm you when trying to help your loved one. It is invaluable to be able to ask these men, their knowledge, experience and kindness is fantastic! I am so grateful that I found this forum! 🙏
Thanks for bringing this up and to my attention. Since I am on ADT (eligard), I also take 400mg calcium w/ 19mcg vitamin D3 supplement twice a day, but did not know about the importance of K2 in that connection. Valuable thread. Thanks (tack så mycket från Danmark 👍).
Hej Denmark! When my husband started ADT he was put on 500 mg calcium with 800 IE D3. No one here in Sweden seems to add K2 so I think this forum is invaluable when wanting to optimize treatment. Jag längtar efter Louisiana och Ströget!! Best wishes!!
Same here... Never heard about K2 here in Denmark. I just ordered Vitamin K2 (MK-7) and will take them together with my calcium/D3 pills from now on... Yay...
PS: I worked half of my time in Malmö during 2-3 years 15 years ago and miss going back there...
Good idea! We live in Halmstad, but our eldest son live in Malmö. Lots of people sitting outside having a beer last weekend when we visited. Felt like a path back to normal.
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