Alternative Treatment RGCC, IST and SOT

[Peppertree602]

As I search for alternative treatment methods and options in addition to regular clinical ones I ran across RGCC (Greek Test) via an integrative doctor in Sarasota. So I started the IST protocol and soon will start the SOT protocol. Has anyone out there had any positive or negative experience with this?

[Bluebird11]

We had what is called the Greek Blood test twice in 13 years. What did it give us? What worked or not, indicators as to what testing his blood would be recommended for my husband's personal cancer. With that first test we threw everything at it, meaning supplements and Casodex, Lupron. I honestly can't say what worked. We felt it gave us support. Main stream doctors consider it voodoo medicine.

In 2014 we had another one done. This time Lupron hadn't worked well in the past. I noticed on the blood test that Zoladex came up higher than Lupron for his cancer. I hadn't heard of it before. I asked our oncologist if we could try it and his tumor load dropped by 50%. We were in great trouble at the time since the sonogram color doppler was showing the size of the tumors in his prostate were getting dangerously close to his rectum...

Within 6 months, after another sonogram it was verified they had shrunk 50% on the Zoladex.

I do know that on a woman's forum for cancer, they discuss it a lot. We actually were trying to get another one recently, though our alternative guy said it became difficult to airship the blood. There is a doctor in Florida who does do it.

I checked in my area and the one doctor recommended who does use it charges 1000 an hour with a minimum 1st visit of 1 1/2 hours. We didn't even know if he'd do the test. We'd have to see him first. The test is about 3000.00.

We are finished paying out of pocket docs who are charging 800 and hour .. 1000 an hour.. even 350.. we've done all of that..

I've given you our experience. We have gone out of the box. It has worked for us since we can't look back anyway. For me, it's all a crap shoot as to who responds and who doesn't, within a range. We have been utterly grateful for conventional meds, though the side effects are tough. We also have used a number of other protocols, non convention that have carried us for years.

This test does give conventional chemos and meds, along with alternative supplements.

It gives percentages. It's a very personal choice.

I hope this helps.

[LearnAll in reply to Bluebird11]

Lot of times, these are established anticancer herbs and spices which are packaged in fancy names...this protocol..that protocol ..to make it a big business.

for example, turmeric is eaten every day by almost all people in India for centuries. It has been costing a dollar a pound.

Then, about 10 or 12 years ago, We,in USA, discovered that turmeric is a superfood, anti oxidant, anti inflammatory and anti cancer.

There are hundreds of research papers available verifying its anticancer properties.

M D Anderson cancer center jumped on the bandwagon and opened a separate department only to do research on this one spice. Probably they are trying to make a "fancy" product ,called something like "turmozumab" or " Turlutamide" or "curcumosin" so it can be given by complex infusion technology...and price can be 15000 dollars for a monthly infusion.

Lets get back to the basics, antioxidant, anti inflammatory foods, herbs and spices have capacity to at least slow down progression of averagely aggressive cancers but may not have much effect on very aggressive type cancer. They COMPLEMENT clinical treatment.

[Peppertree602 in reply to Bluebird11]

yes the doctor I use is in Sarasota and I am doing the recommended protocol

[Hidden]

To my knowledge it is a conventional CTC test with a "pay as you go" marketing twist. The principal labs are in FloriNa/Greece (not to confuse with FloriDa/USA). They also claim having, at least, one other lab in central Europe (Germany/Switzerland or there about).

How it works:

They deal explicitly through doctors. No direct transaction with patients.

You can email them here: rgcc-group.com/ and would get advised regarding collaborating doctors in your country. Blood is drawn, some preconditioning takes place at the same time so that the sample is maintained in good condition during transportation to their lab. Upon reception, they will do the basic analysis, send back the results and offer a time window, of a couple of days, for optional ordering of additional tests. During this period blood is "cultivated" and a long list of drugs/supplements is thrown at it to monitor their individual effectiveness. If one orders the extended test will receive a 30+ pages report with graphs, curves etc. In principal not a bad idea, but time is very important and with the current state in airline flights not sure if doable from the USA.

Disclaimer: I don't have any affiliation with them, I only emailed them and they replied with a doctor's name near me.

[ProstateWhisperer in reply to Hidden]

I've read a critique of the RGCC test from one scientist who questions how cells can be replicated so rapidly. From one blood sample, the lab is apt to find maybe 5 to 10 CTCs. Yet within a week or so they are able to test hundreds of different chemo drugs and natural supplements on the CTCs. Is this possible?

[Hidden in reply to ProstateWhisperer]

I have seen a video on youtube where the person behind this mentioned a cell doubling time of some hours. I can't tell whether this figure is correct or not, but his maths were correct. Geometric progression can take anything out of bounds very fast. Remember the tale where an oriental king had to pay someone starting with a single seed of rice and double it on a chess board. Very fast the total rice production of China was not enough. For example, a doubling time of 6 hours (I do not remember the quoted value - this one is off the top of my head) aggregated on a week's period, i.e. 28 iterations, can produce 268 Billion cells from just an initial one.

[ProstateWhisperer in reply to Hidden]

I've read other places that it's 24 hours. The scientist who writes a lot about this on the web is Greg Pawelski. He wrote a book on the subject.

[Peppertree602 in reply to ProstateWhisperer]

Tx! I will look him up

[Bluebird11 in reply to ProstateWhisperer]

Our CTC's from them were more accurate than the 0 we were getting back from wherever our oncologist was sending ours.

[JPnSD in reply to Hidden]

CTC = Circulating Tumor Cells for the rest of us.

[RonnyBaby]

I had the RGCC test done for myself in 2018.

It cost me about $4K (Cdn). I wanted to test for CTCs as well as trying to determine what else the blood work would indicate for my condition.

The report was extensive and about 30 pages long with the noted graphs and chemical agents / compounds included, in terms of the 'effect' a given substance might have combating particular cell types.

What is key to this protocol is that it establishes a baseline where various cell types are identified in terms of quantity and type. That information can be used in the future to help guide treatment decisions in the more advanced cases.

Repeat tests cost much less than the original 'full panel' tests and are recommended on an annual basis moving forward.

It could be argued that this is a complete waste of time and money. I would not agree that this is a waste - more comprehensive information and timely results should make a difference when selecting some advanced forms of treatment.

NOT having this information is not going to change the world as you know it, but knowledge is power AND some guesswork would be eliminated when a particular drug (type) is selected to keep up the good fight.

RGCC is not the only third party entity that provided this type of testing. I would not dismiss this as quackery .....

[Bluebird11 in reply to RonnyBaby]

Ronny... I agree. We were put down for using it - they didn't say quackery, their disparaging term was voodoo. As I said, the first test, we had no way of telling what was working, though the second clearly gave us direction. With the first we did begin vit c IV's with Quercitin and K2.

Also, in 2007, they were not doing CTC's. In 2014 they were. Our oncologist was also doing CTC's at the time around 2013/2014. Each time the number would be zero, though my husband's PSA was climbing.

When we sent his blood to Greece, the more accurate number came back.

Some who may have had the test may already be doing this- some %'s are low for certain supplements, I wouldn't disregard that lower %. I looked at those as a cocktail type of thing instead of only looking at just the higher %'s. Why not combine?

And, answer to someone's thought. Apparently, it is really difficult to get it to Greece right now.

[RonnyBaby in reply to Bluebird11]

I wasn't aware of the past in terms (2007 - >) of what they were testing or as they 'further' developed their protocols and methodology.

I did get a feeling that it was above board and legit.

My blood sample was flown from Toronto to Greece on the same day it was taken.

My appointment was set early enough to do the 'one day thing'.

If I recall correctly, they had about 48 hours before the sample would become useless.

I can see how that could be more difficult today.

What really surprised me most was WHAT was identified as a potential anti-cancer agent. The effective list included curcumin (turmeric), DIM, Quercitin and docetaxel - just to name a few.

I also tested 'medical cannabis' / THC / CBD, which came back as basically a non-starter (no surprise here, contrary to some outrageous claims by some).

I would think that there will be specific 'medical pros' who will poo-poo this type of testing, but I would look in the mirror with an attitude like that. Currently, medical science can test for all types of 'substances', so why couldn't they find CTCs and other chemical entities ?

Surely, no one wants to piss away their value $$$$, so I accept that there will be skeptics.

What I would point out to the skeptics is that this is a world class recognized research body performing some leading edge analysis where different cancers are involved.

IF it was just PCa they claimed to specialize in, then it might be more suspicious, but this goes beyond one type of cancer. I think more of this type of testing should be available to the public in a more convenient / affordable format because it should help identify anti-cancer agents for all kinds of afflictions.

I'm sure there will be more activity in this type of medical research in the future. Perhaps Big Pharma needs to step up to the table to offer much more than they are doing now.

[Bluebird11 in reply to RonnyBaby]

I will call the Texas office in a few weeks, can't wait for this Covid to lift ..

Toronto does cut so many hours to Greece than from California.

I will call an office in Florida or if the original poster can message me that doctor's name.

We will have to wait a bit anyway.

I'm glad you had it done and felt good about it.

At the time we did it the 2nd time in 2014, cannabis wasn't listed.

As I said... I hadn't heard of Zoladex. It is actually still working. We began again 3 months ago.

What a shame the world has shut down in so many ways.

[RonnyBaby in reply to Bluebird11]

Cannabis is NOT listed. You are given an OPTION to select a few ' candidates' for anti-cancer activity. This is an example where someone could ask to have a supplement tested for those purposes.

[Bluebird11 in reply to RonnyBaby]

Interesting.. we never had that option.

[Peppertree602 in reply to RonnyBaby]

I actually believe it has merit

[Peppertree602]

rgcc-group.com/

This is the link and and basically they determine your circulating tumor cells and provide treatment recommendations

[Peppertree602]

Thanks for all the replies, I wanted to see if anyone has done the IST or SOT protocols and their results from this.

[Peppertree602]

Here is the link to their office. I am going there in 10 days to receive my IST booster and then getting a blood draw to start the SOT protocol.

[Fanger1]

Thank you for the post. It gets our group talking about CTCs. I've used the Biocept CTC test and it is covered in part by my medical insurance. I think it is prudent to track CTCs for PC patients. Also, having clinicians that can understand what the test results mean is important. Please go to the literature to learn more about how scientist's are using CTC to gain insight into cancer on a cellular level. Good luck with your case.

[Bluebird11 in reply to Fanger1]

I have the kit ready to go. I wasn't quite sure what it tested.. I've only communicated with our doc via email.. which is scant ...

I was told that you really need supplemental insurance to cover the very high cost... Also, to make sure you have a diagnosis report to go with it.

It's very expensive. I am not sure if this is correct information. They told me that I'd probably only pay about 150.00 out of pocket. Otherwise it would be thousands. Any one have any experience with this.

[Fanger1 in reply to Bluebird11]

Hi Bluebird11,

The Biocept CTC test is blood test that measures the number (enumeration) of CTCs and can also identify certain cell characteristics like c-MET, AR, EGFR Gene Amplification, AR-V7, c-Myc Gene Amplification and PTEN Gene Amplification. It uses a microfluid channel system coupled with 10 different antibodies that target cell surface proteins. Please see the company website that has references. Use the healthcare provider link and scroll down to cancer offerings then prostate cancer. My medical insurance was able to cover all but a few hundred dollars per test.

Here's the contact information on the Biocept CTC test and a good research article on CTCs. As ctarleton mentioned, the other test that is FDA approved is Cell Search. It only identifies Cytokeratin Positive (CK+) CTCs versus the Biocept CTC test that finds CK+ and Cytokeratin Negative (CK-) CTCs. Another researcher that's an expert in NEPC at Dana Farber (Misha Beltran) uses Epic Platform.

Please see this article with references on CTC testing. The person to call to coordinate ordering test kits and discuss the Biocept CTC test is Mary Nothum. She's been instrumental in helping with my case using Biocept CTC testing.

Biocept, Inc.

5810 Nancy Ridge, Suite 150

San Diego, CA 92121

Customer Service: 888-332-7729

Mary Nothum

Director - Integrated Oncology

Cell: 314-882-0421

Email: [e-mail]

link.springer.com/article/1...

Good luck with your case. Let me know how it goes. We can compare notes/results.

[ctarleton]

Only one CTC test is FDA cleared, and that is the CELLSEARCH test. It returns results on the numbers of circulating tumor cells found, and treating medical doctors can use those changing small numbers results during various treatments to have a rough idea of how likely an existing or proposed next FDA-Approved treatment may be effective or useful during the course of the disease... in this case, metastatic Prostate Cancer.

cellsearchctc.cobe m/

The purported Greek Test seems to be used very differently in the world of "alternatives" and supplements and questionable treatments that do not have FDA approval, and which generally are not able to attest that they are "intended to diagnose, treat, cure or prevent any disease".

[GeorgeGlass]

One thing I didn't see from any replies here, is what treatments, guys tried, after getting the greek test results. Did they just take supplement pills, or did they get IVs, or something else?

[Peppertree602]

I have done 2 ISTs and 3 SOTs and doing 4th SOT tomorrow plus I do all the recommended supplements per recommendations

Not sure if anything helped but my CTC count post RP went from 4.8 to 2.7 and I am undetectable so I will keep on doing it. My oncologist is aware of everything and is not opposed as long as I do not solely rely on this which obviously I will not do.