Hi,
I was recently diagnosed with advanced prostate cancer. I was started on hormone therapy about 6 weeks ago. I'm awaiting the results of a CT scan to confirm if the cancer has spread to bone and/or lymph nodes.
Interested in learning about alternative treatments to surgery, chemo and radiation. I recently heard about allspice showing promise for slowing the spread of prostate cancer. Also have heard about the Budwig protocol/diet.
Thanks,
MJ
My personal advise is keep up your vitamin D3 level. I take 1000 i.u. per day. I became a vegetarian days after being diagnosed. Here are some websites to look at:
mnwelldir.org/docs/cancer1/...
medlineplus.gov/canceralter...
Be careful, some things could be scams. also if you find something you feel comfortable with, watch where you buy it.
My advice would be to stick with treatments that are based on science and have trial data involving large numbers of patients. Stay away from things that sound good, and I know everything sounds better than things like chemo, radiation and surgery. But sounding good does not equate to extending your life. We all know these proven treatments are not cures, but that is not an argument in favor of alternatives. And don't buy the BS conspiracy crap about how "Big Pharma" is suppressing all these alternative treatments because they are cutting into their profits. Go with the existing, published science.
I have a friend that abandoned proven treatments for alternatives and didn't live long. He clung onto things that were obviously not working as those around him fell into despair. I felt bad at his funeral since many of the people there knew I had the same thing but was alive and doing well because I chose proven treatments.
I would hate to see another person go down that path.
Very well said. I don’t understand why people choose the wrong unproven path.
I think they go for it because it sounds so good. People want to hear that you can have a treatment that doesn't have all of these awful side effects and doesn't put nasty toxic chemicals poisons, radiation, etc. into your body. They argue that you need to instead be putting good things into your body. That way it allows your body to kill the cancer by itself, without all of those nasty things. It's what people want to hear and it sounds great. If only it were true.
Of course we all want to put good, nutritious foods and vitamins into our body to promote health, but it has not been proven to extend life for those that have cancer.
Often the defence is, "Well we are not suggesting these for treatment, only as adjuncts to treatment." That's fine, but it's clear from this original post that the poster is looking for alternative treatments, not adjuncts.
Very well said. Thanks
And we all know people who have gone the conventional route and died. Yet, they died from their cancer. Somehow, when one goes the natural route, it is the natural therapy that people claim killed them and never the cancer. Why is that?
You may have the same cancer, Gregg, but there are other variables that come in to play including what stage.
if you are near Houston they could give you some input at m d Anderson. Might just need some seeds and you are good to go.
I'm alive today b/c thousands of people went through clinical trials testing zytiga with lupron or without. When results showed a big advantage taking both right away my MO and 1 at the Cleveland Clinic agreed it was best for me. 17 months of <0.01 PSA later I'm happy. Explore every option but don't go chasing waterfalls.
I'm on Zytiga now too, and it's given me almost a year so far. I was thinking about clinical trials the other day and thought about how at one time, the only way you could get Zytiga was on a clinical trial.
I have the greatest respect for trial participants. We may be doing something different in 3 years because of what is being tested today. Of course I'd rather be in a trial for new ice cream flavors.
I am on the backside of a trial. I've been through its' trial medications followed by surgery. I am almost a year now from my surgery, with no signs of recurrence. I feel that this trial has worked well for me. I also find comfort in that it has helped in furthering research.
"Alternative" is a waste of time.
"Complementary" is what Nalakrats, myself & others are interested in.
If you follow-up on Budwig & join that group, ask how many men have PCa & have been following Budwig for at least a year. Ten years ago, there were none.
-Patrick
I agree with Patrick (of course), but I do know of one exception who is following Budwig (and to some extent doing SOC too). Gary North, a curmudgeonly economist, has on his website a diary of his experience so far, starting with Gleason 9 in July 2017. GaryNorth.com, on the left hand side, second item, is his diary. Free, although most of the site is gated.
I would not. Count on the Budwig diet even though it says it can cure. I tried it for a while and it did not help. there are no shortcut to the real thing. Hormone therapy, Zytiga 1000mg with prednisone 5 mg. It worked for me.
While I would not forego conventional treatments, I do believe in complementary treatment for cancer. The most obvious is diet-eating foods that are known to fight cancer, buying organic if possible, eliminating or cutting back on dairy products. I also believe in high dose Vitamin C infusions, for which there is positive research on.
Jif1,
I'm not counting on an alternative/complementary treatments over conventional therapies. Rather, I'd like to try complimentary regimens that are safe. A recent
find is allspice that a study found augmented hormone therapy. Like you, I'm on the hormone therapy... First round was a 1 month dose given by injection subcutaneously in the stomach area. My PSA dropped from 35 to 4.0 . 2nd round was a 3 month dose given by injection in the glut/butt muscle. After a month, my PSA dropped again from 4.0 to 2.1 . My medical oncologist recently started me on Zytiga 1000mg with prednisone 5 mg. He also recommended that I start radiation therapy in a couple of months concentrating on the prostate and the surrounding area where it's believed the cancer have spread to the lymph nodes.
As suggested above by pjoshea13, alternative medicine is best avoided. I believe, as a G 8, dx in 2012, hormone sensitive stage 4 PCa patient, that there are effective COMPLEMENTARY supplements that will effectively augment your ADT treatment plan. My urologists and MO have visibly shuddered when I remind them of the supplements I'm taking but they have to admit they seem to be working. Here are two former posts that say it all. Message me with any questions you may have.
What I find interesting is that with alternatives, you are not required to prove anything. Just as an example, the above mentioned Budwig protocol. Here's what Memorial Sloan Kettering's website says about it. Emphasis is mine.
Although Budwig wrote books and papers to provide anecdotal evidence and biochemical mechanisms of the diet, no clinical trials have been published in any peer-reviewed medical journal. Polyunsaturated fatty acids, like omega-3 found in flaxseeds, have been shown to exert anticancer activities (2), but there is no evidence that such a diet has any benefit in preventing or treating cancer in humans. Whereas a balanced diet consisting of vegetables and fruits can be beneficial for general health, restricted diets may increase risk of nutritional deficiencies.
Apparantly, having "no evidence that a diet has any benefit in preventing or treating cancer in humans" doesn't really seem to matter to some people. I really think a lot of this stuff is just another "belief system" based on diet and supplement regimens rather than religion.
You might look into new developments in intermittent ADT. Researchers at the Moffitt Cancer Center in Tampa are running several clinical trials that change the strategy of treatment. Instead of taking the maximum dose of e.g. Lupron, abiraterone, or doxetacel chemo, they try to manage the cancer as a chronic disease. In one trial they gave ADT plus abiraterone to men with advanced disease. The drugs would be stopped when PSA had dropped by 50%, the restarted when PSA rose to baseline. 4 of 18 men progressed (stopped responding to the drugs) but 14 men are still cycling. The longest has done 12 cycles in 4 years.
The control group, given ADT+abiraterone continuously, all progressed with an average time of 15 months. The average time to failure of the cycling group can't be determined, but it is at least 34 months.
The only alternative besides healthy diet, that works for ME is an Alkaline Therapy(AT). I tested it by itself before final Dx (Inoperable, terminal, incurable, stage 4 PCa, with full skeleton bone Mets, lymph nodes positive, extreme pain, 55lb weight loss from 215lb normal), and starting Lupron. My PSA was 1300+ and climbing 1 point a day dropped by 70% after one 12day AT cycle. I continue today a year later on Lupron along with one 10day cycle per month of AT.
PSA now <1.2. I'm 76, first MO (I got rid of immediately), said go home and get your affairs in order NOW.
Given weeks to 6 mo if nothing done.
Research ideas thoroughly and judge for yourself. Therapy is different when you have PCa as opposed to trying to not get it.
THERE IS NO MAGIC POTION but some have measured personal success with some alternatives.
I'm still here, a year later, feeling relatively good, I believe from both Lupron AND Alkaline Therapy, and diet/lifestyle changes COMBINED.
2Dee
I think that a parallel approach is best. I do Lupron because it keeps my PCa on hold. I do alternate stuff in the hope of strengthening my immune system so it can do its job. Many “alternate options” increase your QOL which is always welcome.
I practice Butyeko breathing because it increases tissue oxygenation which may hurt my cancer but certainly makes me feel more powerful when I look at my shrinking long muscles and budding breasts.
I take THC because Of its’ putative curative effects, but equally important, because, for me, it reduces frequency and improves flow of daytime and nighttime urination and produces a great sleep after lots of laughs.
Now, I am on a low low low protein, no refined carb, multi veggie diet and my microbiome appears to like it, thus benefiting my immune system and my QOL.
All of these things seem to reduce brain fog.
Good luck and keep on searching and questioning.
You mention recently Dx'd. Is this a recurrent cancer or your first bout with it??..... If this is your first go round would STRONGLY recommend standard of care treatments particularly if there has been movement outside the prostate..... I'm thinking however that since you were Dx'd with advanced Pca you are referring to a recurrence or these other tests would already have BEEN done
There are alternatives.... but unless you have no detectable mets and a slow PSADT and velocity I'd be sticking with " complementary" over " alternative" BTW.... what is your PSA now??
Tommyj2,
This is my first bout with cancer. My PSA after the first month of hormone therapy dropped from 35 to 4. I have labwork getting done tomorrow in preparation for a follow-up with a medical oncologist in a couple days to discuss my CT scan results and treatment options.
MJ
I'm confused as to why you are referring to your cancer as advanced.... Does not appear that you have yet gotten the results of your tests ( or did I miss or forget something re: Mets??).... If you do not have mets anywhere do what you can to really attack this the first time out.... if you don't you stand a very good chance of recurrence.... that is the position I find myself in right now... You've already done the ADT so that is a good thing.... will weaken the cancer and possibly shrink the tumor( s ) making whatever Tx option you choose that much more successful.... from the report on your declining PSA it appears to already have an effect..... How are you tolerating the ADT?? Looks like I am going to have to go on it for the first time and I am NOT looking forward to it.
Tommy,
I have cancer in my lymph nodes and a "suspicious" spot on my pelvic wall. I've had an MRI and Bone scan. A subsequent CT scan was done for a more conclusive diagnosis. They are now more confident after the CT scan that cancer has spread to the lymph nodes. But not about the bone.
Fortunately, I'm tolerating ADT well. Not having hot flashes, man boobs, etc. I'm taking a calcium supplement to ward off bone density loss.
Bad luck for a first bout but happy to hear that it hasn't reached your bones... With luck the ADT will keep it at bay. Glad you are tolerating the ADT well... How long have you been on it?? BTW.... you might want to fill in your profile with more of your information ( Gleason Score, Staging, tests/outcomes...what kind of treatment you are pursuing or have had already..... This way, if you have questions for the group you won't need to answer these over and over...people will just go to your profile and already have a starting point by which to give you an answer... saves a LOT of back and forth. BTW.... what Tx are you planning TO pursue... I would think that you still have the surgery option but they are going to , likely, want to follow up with radiation...... you still have options.....
Hello mochajet,
Would you please tell us more about yourself. Age? Location? Scores Psa/Gleason? Where you're being treated? Treatments so far? Doctor(s) names(s)? ALL INFO IS OPTIONAL. If you do reply please reply in a future (dated) post and NOT to me. Thank you. Your info helps us help you and helps us too.
Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.
j-o-h-n Monday 05/20/2019 6:06 PM DST
I recommend any diet that includes coffee enemas. Enjoy.
I have experienced muscle loss from the hormone therapy. I get protein from shakes, tofu, etc.
All the best to you. Where did you learn about Allspice? Don’’t put too much credence to the Budwig diet.
There are several articles about allspice on the Internet. Here's an NIH study:
Future of advanced prostate cancer treatments. What to expect?
Finally Had First Treatment for Advanced Prostate Cancer
Friend with advanced Prostate cancer
Advanced prostate cancer
Radiation for Advance Prostate Cancer?
Our friend on this forum, Nalakrats, should be able to advise you.