Collagen & Glutamic Acid effects on Advanced PCx

[GeorgeGlass]

Does anyone think that the gluatamic acid (related to glutamine and glutamate), that is in all the grass fed cow Type 1 and 3 collagen powders, is a concern for helping the Advanced PCx metastasize faster. I know glutamine et al are not good for adv prostate cancer but maybe the amount in the powder mix is not large enough to be a big problem. On average there is about 1300mg of glutamic acid per serving. Thoughts? I want to start taking Collagen to try to counter the tendinitis and neuropathy caused by Levaquin that I took two months ago. Yes, I got floxed and I'm upset about it...no real warnings to me before taking.

[noahware]

Thanks for bringing up the issue of FQ damage. Another case of certain meds helping MOST people but harming a few, and then those few are totally discounted (in the service of the "greater good"?) as no worries, the rest of us are fine. I'm sorry that you got no warning, but at least you may serve as a warning to others.

The first thing I'd ask is, how certain are you that this supplement will help, and are there other things (D3, magnesium, etc.) that might help? Personally, I am wary of nearly ALL supplements and their potential effects on various metabolic pathways and cellular signalling, unless they are well-studied.

So would collagen powder have no big effect on your PC, or would it potentially contribute to either progression or regression of PC? I have no idea. But I might approach it the same way I would in thinking about all supplements, foods or meds: are factors like angiogenesis and metabolic pathways (like mTOR, etc.) that are associated with cancer progression UPregulated or DOWNregulated?

For example, when I was looking at possible antidepressants/antipsychotics to take, there are some that seem to be associated with progression of prostate cancer and some that are actually being considered as potential treatments (like valproate). So with some research, are any possible win-win approaches out there?

Perhaps certain foods to either add to, or eliminate from, your current diet might have a synergistic effect (i.e. potentially downregulate PC proliferation AND potentially counter tendinitis and neuropathy). My offhand assumption is that would be a more anti-inflammatory diet, which you may already be doing?

If there is anyway of addressing things with foods alone, that to me seems a better bet that using meds or supplements. But I don't know if that would apply here to effects of Levaquin. Good luck!

[GeorgeGlass in reply to noahware]

There are 11,000 people on one of the Floroquinone toxicity groups on Facebook. Another 6,000 on another. I dont think it's a small number who's lives have been ruined by these drugs. I think it's in the hundreds of thousands and maybe millions worldwide. I'm doing the healthy diet thing and read a ton of studies on supplements/food exercise etc. but there's no doubt that it's a balancing act and I'm not sure there is such a thing as a 3 or 4 lever scale. Sometimes you have to do a little bad for one thing in order to do good for another. On the websites for floroquinone poisoning people are taking many different supplements but collagen is an obvious choice because people's tendons are rupturing and disintegrating. Collagen is the building block for tendons and connective tissue. It's shocking how many parts of the body are destroyed or diseased by the effects of these drugs. I could go on for an hour about it. In general Collagen builds connective tissue and blocks out cancer. If connective tissue/collagen is weak in the body then cancer can tunnel through much more easily and metastasize much easier but the glutamic acid in collagen is a little concerning. Thus, one tries to choose the lesser of two evils.

[Brocktree in reply to GeorgeGlass]

Thank you GeorgeGlass for the studied information. A nephrologist confirmed I had stage 3 kidney disease after an 8 week IV dose of ciprofloxacin (a fluoroquinolone) for spinal osteomyletis. Six months later a podiatrist suspected the charcot foot I was diagnosed with was brought on by cipro . So yes , based on my experience and the studied opinions of medical specialists, and 1 sports coach, floroquinlones are toxic on a larger scale than is being reported. Please keep posting your findings

[GeorgeGlass in reply to Brocktree]

I will. It’s outrageous how the entire world media talks about blood clots in ten people after Covid vaccine but they won’t talk about millions of people destroyed by floroquinolones.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to noahware]

I stay away from the MTor foods etc. I've improved a lot since the Levofloxacin FQAD but my energy never came back due to too much mitochondria damage. My fingernails started getting vertical ridges this year and my skin is getting worse, including two different basil cell carcinomas on my face, even without getting out in the sun. At 5am this morning, Dr. Axe was doing his 10 types of collagen infomercial saying the collagen improves skin, nails etc. I already know it strengthens the ligaments and cartilage etc. I also read an article once that said metastatic cancer is a collagen deficiency disease. This article says to skip the collagen powders and take the other things that help create collagen. I already take all of them, although I take niacinamide instead of niacin, which I think is just as effective.

templetonwellness.com/artic...

bing.com/search?q=metastati...

[GeorgeGlass]

I read your article on that I think and saw some other article online talking about that as well, so I put the two supplements I had with Hyaluronic Acid in the dust bin. Luckily, I had only taken them for about a week or two. So you're saying that the Glutamic Acid is similar to the Hyaluronic acid, or separate but also a transporter? I need to find a way to keep my collagen from deteriorating from the Levaquin poisoning.

[GeorgeGlass]

Here's some info I found about collagen and cancer, to include prostate:

Type I collagen

Type I collagen is the most abundant collagen throughout the body. It is the major component of the bone and is present in blood vessels, cornea, sclera, tendon, ligaments and skin. It is the most common collagen in the IM, where it has key structural roles. Apart from its structural role, type I collagen possess important growth factor binding potential, and via its binding to a variety of proteins regulate cell homeostasis [75].

A number of studies have shown that type I collagen play a significant role in bone related diseases, inclusive bone cancer and cancer-related bone metastasizes. Especially the turnover of type I collagen has shown to be important [76–79].

Type I collagen is also dysregulated in other solid tumor types (than bone cancer) and can affect tumor cell behavior. Compared to healthy tissue, the amount of type I collagen is augmented in pancreas, colorectal, ovarian, breast and lung cancer [21, 23, 24, 80].

Pancreas cancer cells exposed to type I collagen show increased proliferation, are less responsive to apoptosis, secrete higher amounts of TGF-β and show a strong reduction in E-cadherin expression [81–83]. Interestingly, Gao et al. found that tumor cells, in mouse breast tumor tissue, show high proliferative activity when located adjacent to type I collagen, whereas cells not in contact with type I collagen are quiescent [84].

Type I collagen has also been shown to affect metastasis, as exposure to type I collagen results in more invasive behavior in tumor cells [82]. In an in vivo breast cancer model, with accumulated type I collagen distribution, the amount of circulating tumor cells was increased compared to the amount in wild type mice. Moreover, the metastatic lesions were larger than in wild type [85].

Type II collagen

Type II collagen is the main collagen in cartilage, where it constitutes 80% of the total collagen content [86]. Within the joint, it provides stability and resiliency to stress [86]. Forty percent of all bone cancers originates from cartilage, however bone cancers accounts for less than 0.2% of all cancers [87] and therefore very little is known about type II collagen and its relation to cancer. However, a few studies have shown that type II collagen can affect cell behavior and that the type II collagen fragment PIIBNP can inhibit osteoclast survival and induce cell death in tumor cells [88–90].

Type III collagen

Type III collagen is the second most abundant collagen and is often distributed close to type I collagen. It is primarily found in vascular systems, intestine, liver, skin and lung [86]. Like type I collagen, type III collagen distribution is augmented in many cancer diseases such as head and neck squamous cell cancer (HNSCC), breast, pancreas and colorectal cancer [21, 22, 34, 91–94]. In colon cancer, the distribution of type III collagen is especially augmented next to neovascular tissue [34, 91].

Pancreas cancer cells grown on type III collagen show increased proliferation, migration and decreased expression of E-cadherin [82]. Moreover, type III collagen is involved in invasion and metastasis of glioblastoma cells. These cells show high invasion and migration response when exposed to type III collagen and antibodies against type III collagen inhibit these processes [73]. Another study, report that collagen III is one of few genes that are modified, when invasive prostate cancer cells interact with bone marrow stromal cells, within the bone microenvironment. This interaction is crucial for the metastasis process, which further suggests an involvement of type III collagen in invasion and metastasis [74].