Folic Acid and advanced PC

[bean1008]

In watching the PCRI conference over the weekend there was discussion about folic acid. I came out of it a bit confused…should those of us with advanced PC not be taking folic acid? Or should should we be on a reduced dose? The multivitamin I take daily has 400mcg folic acid and I’m not sure if I should drop it for a different one. Appreciate your responses!

[Tall_Allen]

You should not be taking folic acid or any multivitamin pills. Get full and balanced nutrition by eating a variety of fruits, vegetables, proteins and fats.

[bean1008 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thanks, TA! I do take a calcium supplement with Vit D to help with the effects of ADT on bone strength….I assume that’s advisable.

[Tall_Allen in reply to bean1008]

No, it's not advisable to take calcium supplements or Vitamin D supplements unless your serum levels are low. Calcium supplements have been associated with worsening PCa progression, not to mention increasing cardiovascular risk and kidney problems. Vitamin D in high doses robs the bones of bone mineral density.

prostatecancer.news/2018/07...

If your bone mineral density is very low, talk to your oncologist.

[Echotango51 in reply to Tall_Allen]

TA, I’m some what confused about taking Calcium with D3. My Uro told me years ago too take Calcium because I ‘m on Lupron for over 5 years. I will asked him when I see him next week.

[Tall_Allen in reply to Echotango51]

What would a Urologist know about it and why are you still seeing a urologist? You should be seeing a medical oncologist who specializes in urologic cancers.

You should be monitoring your bone mineral density with a DEXA scan.

[Echotango51 in reply to Tall_Allen]

Thanks TA, I have a medical oncologists that specializes only PC. I had a appointment with him last October. He has me on the list for aPSMA-Ply scan when my PSA gets to 0.5 I see my UROLOGIST only

For my lupron injection, also having a bone density scan done on

April Fools Day. Urologist 12 miles away , Medical Oncologists 100 miles away. There’s no medical oncologist in Savannah that specialize in PC, they are generic medical oncologist.

I will send a email to medical oncologist about calcium and D3.

Thanks again for your reply

[GeorgeGlass in reply to Echotango51]

Take magnesium, D3 and K2 and your bones will get stronger

[rscic in reply to Tall_Allen]

It has been known for a long time (Dr. Roy Walford, The 120 Year Diet, 1986) that while getting the minimum RDA (advisable for the general population) from foods is possible it involves weekly planning. Anyone who has sat down and calculated approx. how much of the minimum RDA they are getting in terms of essential ingredients from each food they consume will likely find they are lacking somewhere. BTW being Vegan makes it more difficult to get all the minimum RDA from foods. Now, there appear to be longevity benefits to being Vegan or at least largely vegan & the "Blue Zone" area of Loma Linda, California has a higher percentage of Vegans. All the Blue Zones in the world have low meat consumption.

Now, a cancer patient is a special case & it could be poor supply of some minimum RDA foods would be an advantage as this could inhibit cancer growth. By the same sort of reasoning, overdosing (supplements) with some growth promoting essential RDA ingredients could PROMOTE cancer growth.

The idea that everyone in the general population can get all their Minimum RDA requirements from food is a partial myth ..... it can be done but takes in the neighborhood of 2 to 4 hours of planning each week (in my experience) OR do it once and repeat the same weekly diet (many would say "boring"). While it is likely most beneficial to get as many nutrients as possible from foods, for most people in the general population some supplementing assures there are no nutrient "gaps".

However, as previously stated, cancer patients are a special case & there are certain nutrients which should definitely not be oversupplied.

A thread on a list of which nutrients are helpful for fighting prostate cancer & which should be avoided (with references) would likely be useful to many on this site ..... if anyone has, or is willing to compile, such a list. Tall_Allen's reference might be a start.

[Tall_Allen in reply to rscic]

I don't know about 1986, but in 1992, the USDA introduced a weekly Food Pyramid, updated in 2005 and 2011 (as better info becomes available). It is easy for the average American to follow.

cdn1.sph.harvard.edu/wp-con...

[rscic in reply to Tall_Allen]

I have weighed the amounts, calculated the nutrient amounts from nutrient tables and am operating on the assumption whole food from 1986, to a large extent, has not substantially changed from when the tables were written with reference to nutrient content. I would be happy to be proved wrong on this but the proof would have to be in actual calculations of nutrients from reliable food tables. RDA's CAN be obtained from food but it requires a strategy the general population is unwilling to follow.

BTW I remember when, for school lunches, Pizza was considered by the government to be a vegetable ......

As I said, the ideal nutrient density for at least some nutrients in the Prostate Cancer Population is likely different from the general population.

Just some thoughts.

[GeorgeGlass in reply to rscic]

the USDA food pyramids were made up by corrupt politicians who made money from the corporations that sold much of the items listed in the pyramid. Those pyramids were/are responsible for killing tens, maybe hundreds of million of Americans, 10-20 years earlier than they otherwise would have died.

[homer13]

Folic acid is not good. Folate might be a different issue, but I will not comment on that.

[pjoshea13]

I have posted many times on the subject of one-carbon metabolism*, hypermethylation & PCa progression. Most recently:

healthunlocked.com/advanced...

When the FDA mandated the fortification of grain & grain products with folic acid, did the multivitamin brands drop folic acid? Not at all.

In the U.S. & the many countries that followed the FDA lead, most men have no reason to supplement with folic acid. And men with PCa should avoid 'fortified' foods IMO.

* nature.com/articles/bjc2017118

-Patrick

[rscic in reply to pjoshea13]

As I remember, a reduction in neural tube defects in the newborn was the reason Folic Acid was added into foods (fortification) ..... maybe someone else has more/better insight.

[pjoshea13 in reply to rscic]

Yes, neural tube defects. By the time that she realizes she is pregnant, it is too late to correct a folate deficiency and prevent spina bifida in the baby.

The true target was therefore fertile women with a poor folate status, but the FDA targetted everyone - males, menopausal women & children.

In addition, the dose you receive varies depending on haw much bread you eat - & other baked goods - as well as rice.

I believe that the number of defects fell by about 50%.

"Spina bifida occurs in 1 per 2,000 live births in the United States and is the most common central nervous system birth defect. Around 1,500 babies are born with spina bifida in the U.S. each year." I suppose the mothers didn't eat bread.

The downside in countries with a serious folate deficiency problem is that fortification revealed cancers that were not going to be a problem. There were surges in colorectal cancer. Europe & Scandinavia refused fortification.

-Patrick

[rscic in reply to pjoshea13]

Just because the US government does it does not make it good (your example of surges in colorectal cancer).

Ideally, women, even young women, will be on a contraceptive if they are sexually active & will start taking prenatal vitamins before they go off their contraceptive.

In the USA, particularly young women, do not get educated on contraceptives & there is much misinformation. The result is a much higher teen pregnancy rate in this country vs at least some European countries.

So, in the US the result has been EVERYONE who eats bread gets additional folic acid which is converted to folate UNLESS one has some of the MTHFR genetics (4 sites in humans). With each site defect the conversion of folic acid to folate is reduced ..... from a folate perspective the "cure" is to directly take folate. Why is folic acid given & not folate? Because folic acid degrades in food much more slowly than folate .... so folic acid has a longer shelf life.

I think I have remembered everything correctly please correct any errors. I did not know of the increased colon cancer rates with folic acid so, thanks for that!!

[j-o-h-n]

I enjoy a good Folick once in awhile.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Tuesday 03/28/2022 6:10 PM DST

[rocket09]

I am a main stream medical follower but what do you think they really know about nutrition . They change their minds on butter and eggs every few years wtf. I believe humans are just in the early stages of learning on the human body so take your best info and use it. That's all we have.