Diet and Cancer Progression . . . Fruit - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Diet and Cancer Progression . . . Fruit

cashlessclay profile image
76 Replies

I have been using ultra-sensitive PSA testing and carefully controlled

meals to determine how foods impact my prostate cancer progression.

I had a prostatectomy and SRT, recurrence 2013, Gleason 4=3 biopsy,

3+3 pathology, and a PSADT of 7 months. PSA's since January 2019 - - -

0.442, 0.435, 0.416, 0.427, 0.424. I call this a 'cancer neutral" or a

"cancer stable" diet. This is an important concept because when I

make a change to the diet I will get "positive", "negative" or "neutral"

PSA result for cancer progression.

This (5 week) test period indicated a slight to moderate increase in

cancer growth for fruit. The neutral point was a small portion of

fruit (after lunch and/or dinner) per day. For example, total 1/2 apple,

one kiwi, one half grape fruit etc. These are my numbers, millage will

vary.

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cashlessclay profile image
cashlessclay
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76 Replies

till now, what you know is neutral, what negative if there is something, and what positive?

cashlessclay profile image
cashlessclay in reply to

Myriam, I'm using a vegan + seafood diet, with no fast carbs (complex carbs are fine).

Neutral: all vegetables that are not high GI/GL, most nuts, wild caught fish, squid and scallops.

Feeds cancer: All food that invoke an "insulin spike" response ( sweets, refined grains . . )

Foods that bring about an "iron spike" (red meat, organ meats, oysters, clams, mussels).

Juicing any fruit.

Inhibits cancer: Liberal use of spices (turmeric, garlic, ginger, rosemary, oregano, spicy

red pepper, black pepper), cruciferous vegetables, raspberries, soy.

Greatfaith profile image
Greatfaith in reply to cashlessclay

Thank you!. This is great information.

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll

Have you tried high level of fruits and vegetables diet ?(my diet contains 50% veggies and fruits) If yes..What was the result ? The remaining 50% includes lentils, some yogurt, some whole wheat bread ,whey protein smoothy..

cashlessclay profile image
cashlessclay in reply to LearnAll

Only a small amount of fruit works for me. As the saying goes . . . a half of a tart apple

a day . . keeps the doctor away. I eat a ton of veggies, lentils have not caused me any harm, no dairy nor bread for me. Never tried whey protein.

Currumpaw profile image
Currumpaw in reply to cashlessclay

Hey cashlessclay,

About that half an apple, eat the skin and seeds which are more important than the flesh to prevent and inhibit cancer.

Currumpaw

I am no expert. My nat dr told us to not eat too much of the high sugar fruits . No banana or grapes .. I do eat an apple a day and all of the seeds . Do not juice fruits . To heavy consentration of of sugar .. I’m with you cashless in the sense that what we eat ( DOES ) effect APC . Common sense tells us that diet effects every thing . Eat to live brother . Keep you pc in check ..

cashlessclay profile image
cashlessclay in reply to

Lulu, totally agree with your natural doctor. I have killed a good diet by juicing, even at 30% fruit, 70% vegetables. I have killed a diet by pre-soaking steel cut oatmeal. Killed

another by cooking the oatmeal "soft". Killed another with too much "almond milk" (it wasn't the almonds, it was the liquid). Killed another with too many "berries" on the

oatmeal. All related to the glycemic/insulin response.

in reply to cashlessclay

I’ve made some errors also. Hey,but all in all I’m on top of eating healthy. So are you . Once you eat real food you don’t want to go back to the SAD .. Take care cashless,we must heal our selves any way that we feel fit .. “ pluck the day”. Enjoy your weekend brother.. Scott🌵

RICH22 profile image
RICH22 in reply to

pluck the day - subs. evelle for carpe and we're good to go!

in reply to RICH22

Se la ve ,........que Sara Sara

Lawrencee profile image
Lawrencee in reply to cashlessclay

Place ceylon cinnamon in your oatmeal. Cinnamon keeps the blood sugar stable. More benefit to berries than worrying about the spike.

in reply to Lawrencee

Love cinnamon and all spices ..

KariMari profile image
KariMari in reply to cashlessclay

How do you eat/cook the oatmeal? My husband has oatmeal - steel cut and regular every morning, I would like to prepare it right! Thank you so much. We also believe that diet is extremely important to fight this.

Fairwind profile image
Fairwind

Are you doing ADT in any form ?

cashlessclay profile image
cashlessclay in reply to Fairwind

Fairwind, I'm trying hard to avoid ADT. My PSA, without the diet, would be about 100 now and I would have been on ADT for about two years already. With the diet, I have been steady at 0.4 to 0.5 for last two years.

in reply to cashlessclay

That is fantastico ! Keep rolling ...

Greatfaith profile image
Greatfaith in reply to cashlessclay

This is very good news!! Doctors promote drugs but being a personal chef, I am doing a lot of research on diet and I have read that men who drastically changed their diet to include more vegetables, no dairy and no meat have proven results and help keep the doc and his meds away. I'm working on my recipe book now and will keep members of this blog updated.

pjoshea13 profile image
pjoshea13

People talk about fruit as though they are all equal. Fruits generally have a mix of sugars & some are high in unattached glucose. If the name ends in "berry", the fruit is OK for diabetics. Use the USDA Database to check out the composition:

ndb.nal.usda.gov/ndb/search...

or Google the glcemic index/load.

-Patrick

cashlessclay profile image
cashlessclay in reply to pjoshea13

Patrick, My diet actually degrades without 4-5 raspberries on the oatmeal every day. It takes about 6-8 weeks for the degradation to be noticeable, but then continues over the

next 4-6 months until the diet becomes worthless.

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll

A good rule of thumb for me is "if a fruit is too sweet..its not good...if a fruit is somewhat sweet ..its OK" Some Desirable fruits : all berries, pears, apples, guava etc

in reply to LearnAll

I know a 71 year old guy that had cancer 30 yrs ago . He went to a clinic in Mexico We’re he ate unrippened fruit and veggies all . He lost that cancer after a one month stint at the clinic. Somebody knew something special . Anecdotal for sure . But anything is possible with faith ..

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to

I met him once.... ran past me one day.... I think his name was "Speedy Gonzalez".

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 07/14/2019 2:08PM DST

in reply to j-o-h-n

We call him ten -top Tony now because he worked and saved and now owns ten apartments in SoCal . He is humble but well set financially . Still healthy , no return on the “C “ ... so ARRIBA ! ARRIBA! ANDALe ! Salud amigo ..

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964

Just turning vegetarian is a step in the right direction. No domestic animals or animal byproducts.

in reply to Magnus1964

Agreed 100% 👏

Cheerr profile image
Cheerr in reply to Magnus1964

Hi Magnus,

I agree with including a all vegetarian diet.

Should we totally avoid milk and yogurt as well?

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply to Cheerr

When I first started the vegetarian diet I avoided all animal byproducts. That included milk, butter and yogurt. Once my Pca was under control I did add cream in my coffee and fish. The major point here is to avoid domestic animals that are fed hormones to make them grow bigger, fatter and faster. Those hormones can not be good for Pca.

in reply to Magnus1964

The antibiotics are killer in dairy ... for us ..

in reply to Cheerr

Yogurt is the best of dairy . Still only use moderately ...

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll

But Magnus...prostate cancer is a weird animal...I have been a vegetarian all my life..there is no family history of pCA….and here I am with pCA with bone mets. Gleason 3+4.

Always ate spices..turmeric, ginger, garlic, onion ,fennel, red pepper and so on.

I still believe that its better to be a vegetarian.. I don't know how meat tastes..never ate even a piece.

Magnus1964 profile image
Magnus1964 in reply to LearnAll

I don't claim that a vegetarian diet will "cure " Any cancer. But I do believe that it can slow the process. Doing all you can for yourself only makes sense. Why look to doctors to do everything for you if you won't take care of yourself.

The same goes for taking vitamin D3 and other supplements, exercise and just plain healthy living.

in reply to Magnus1964

Correct Magnus . Most western doctors just don’t care much about nutrition ..or supplements . I agree it’s up to us to live and eat right . I’m following your lead amigo . ✌️

lazyfives profile image
lazyfives in reply to LearnAll

I've read that there has been some correlation between dairy products and prostate cancer (cheese, milk, etc.) I know vegetarians that are very heavy dairy consumers. I've gone vegan for those reasons (as well as others mentioned in this thread).

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to lazyfives

Tall Allen recently posted a new research study about milk /milk products titled "cow juice is OK" find and read that for details.

in reply to LearnAll

👎👎

lazyfives profile image
lazyfives in reply to LearnAll

Couldn't find it. Most of the research I've found is not conclusive, but also doesn't rule out dairy, so I avoid it. Whole, plant-based foods are still my rule of thumb.

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to lazyfives

Go to right side of screen ..look for search posts ,type cow juice and it will pop up. The study is huge with almost 50000 men participating. This clarifies the controversy about cow milk and product. Its presented by Tall Allen and is titled "cow juice is OK'

Kuanyin profile image
Kuanyin

I think that this business of fruit and, perhaps, diet in general, with certain exceptions, red meat for example because of fat and iron. Because of the nature of Pca and its idiosyncratic behavior due to the hormone connection, what works for one may not work for another. Personal example: I eat lots of fruit. We spend a ton of money at Costco buying fruit but for the past three years this doesn't seem to have influenced my PSA which has remained stable. What's also a little crazy is that I normally do not eat eggs or any milk products. While we were on our last trip, however, I ate 2-3 different kinds of yogurt for breakfast every day; I ate poached eggs every day and I also consumed all kinds of freshly baked breads and pastries each day. Upon return, I visited my oncologist for lab work which revealed that my PSA had gone DOWN, not UP. After thinking about this, my primary conclusion is, my weight remained stable; even though I had eaten the no-no foods, I hadn't increased my total calorie intake for the day. I had had plenty of exercise, there was an excursion each day, and my wife and I often took walks on the ship's deck, when possible, after meals. However, whose to know, the troops could come roaring out of their foxholes with a vengeance at any time. One could then argue, Oh this wouldn't have happened so soon had I not eaten so much fruit! I recently wrote a post regarding the use of an electronic scale to monitor weight and other markers of health. My weight suggests that I am underweight for what my age, height and weight are. My BMR is on the high side which indicates that I burn calories quickly. What I'm saying is your last PSA result may be an outlier and there may be other effective ways of allowing you to add more fruit to your diet.

I don’t have enough time invested to have an opinion on diet for me personally. I was told by my radiologist that diet is very important in that it’s proven healthy people with PC do much better than people that are not. He promotes a Mediterranean diet. Good luck.

Lawrencee profile image
Lawrencee in reply to

What the hell does a radiologist know about diet. LMAO

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to Lawrencee

He's the one that nukes the food.

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 07/14/2019 2:10 PM DST

pilot52 profile image
pilot52 in reply to j-o-h-n

Damn,,,sold my x-ray machine when I retired.....could have self nuked myself and my food.

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to pilot52

LOL Only one problem.... Does your medical insurance cover that?

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Wednesday 07/17/2019 2:27 PM DST

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll

Direct effect of diet on pCA may not be clear but one thing is pretty clear and that is vegetarian diet is proven to keep blood pressure and blood sugar lower. Also, helps to maintain ideal body weight. Plus, prevents deficiency of vitamins and minerals. These indirect benefits translates into better general health and hence more capacity to fight pCA.

whatsinaname profile image
whatsinaname in reply to LearnAll

We have plenty of "pure vegetarians" in India who have blood pressure and blood sugar problems. Perhaps, had they eaten meat, fish and dairy products, their BP and BS would be even higher ??

in reply to whatsinaname

Could be hereditary for them . Exersize is also a factor ..,How are you feeling brother now ?

whatsinaname profile image
whatsinaname in reply to

Not at all good, Lulu700. Frankly, I think I don't have much time to live. I'll try and make the best of it. Thanks for asking. Cheers !!

in reply to whatsinaname

MF ! I’m sorry brother ..this shit is brutal . These bodies once compromised go weak . I believe that our spirit goes on . The flesh is weak . I need a miracle everyday .I pray that you get one . 🙏😫

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to whatsinaname

The reason for people to have high BP and BS in India is that they eat a lot of oil

and saturated fats along with high sugar sweets...causing obesity. They also eat less than required amount of protein.

whatsinaname profile image
whatsinaname in reply to LearnAll

Nothing wrong with saturated fats. Its trans-fats that's bad.

You may be right about the sugary sweets and refined oil.

My ancestors have eaten meat, sea food and dairy products throughout their lives and the percentage of them getting prostate cancer, diabetes or BP is minuscule.

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to whatsinaname

But our ancestral worked all day long in farms and burnt over 4000 calories a day.

whatsinaname profile image
whatsinaname in reply to LearnAll

Yours maybe, not mine :-) My ancestors were brainwashed by the Portuguese to live a happy-go-lucky life (susegado). Eat, drink and be merry :-)

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to whatsinaname

My uro who himself has pCA told me that only 12 % pCA are genetic ...the remaining 88 % the cause is unknown. I looked into my family tree..not even one male had pCA in last 3 generations. (Or may be they never got diagnosed) Most lived in their 70s.

whatsinaname profile image
whatsinaname in reply to LearnAll

That is what I thought. The cause is unknown.

My uncles and grand uncles lived well into their 80's and 90's.

I will be creating a record of sorts by kicking the bucket at 63 :-(

LearnAll profile image
LearnAll in reply to whatsinaname

I do not care to go a few years early...what I worry most is pain and suffering. My Onco said "we will deal with it when you will have pain..don't worry right now.

In next few months, I would like my financial house in order...a clear Last Will..so my loving wife don't have to deal with problems getting assets.

Also, will have a family meeting to decide that doctor don't do out of ordinary crazy adventures when my time comes and let me go in peace. Although ,my onc says its too early to do this elaborate planning..that I may be around 8 to 10 years at least.

But I am a life long planner.

in reply to LearnAll

Better to have all of our ducks in order ...

in reply to whatsinaname

I m the youngest in my family ...APC stops us in our tracks .. like a freight train ..

in reply to LearnAll

My father and his brother both had APC ...but I’m the only one out of my fathers four sons to contract this bitch of a disease.. I add it up to not learning to deal with stress in a positive way . I always sweated the little stuff .. Not anymore . Whatever will be will be . Pluck the day . Tomorrow isn’t guaranteed ...

in reply to whatsinaname

Susegado has validity . Pluck the day , f the APC .

Myhubby58 profile image
Myhubby58

Myhubby58 is psa is rising also.psa is now .79,he just had biopsy done his liver. We are awaiting results.He is still on zytiga and prednisone,but I think he is going to need docetaxel..Don’t know what’s next.He is taking supplements and doing colonics and foot baths as well..he has stage4 prostate cancer and bone metesis..Now they also did a mri on his brain to check for lesion..

in reply to Myhubby58

🙏. I pray for him . I’m also 58 #4 ... best wishes... Scott🌵

Myhubby58 profile image
Myhubby58 in reply to Myhubby58

Ok that was five months ago. Now Myhubby58 has finished 6 rounds of taxotere and went for more scans to see if it has helped him at all. And I’m sorry to say that it has not helped. Only the Psa has gone a little..The Cancer has now spread more to his bones and there is a lesion in his chest next to his traciure. The Dr said that the since the chemotherapy does so bad , so he want to stop. But if he stops then his psa will go right back up some more, so I feel like he is telling us that the chemotherapy is the only thing keeping him here.. someone elaborate please..

bwochf profile image
bwochf

Cashlessclay, I'm also a 7 (4+3)...

May I ask you for the details of your oatmeal? How much steel cut oats do use and how much water? What are the heating conditions when you prepare the oatmeal. When do you consider the oatmeal as too soft?

cashlessclay profile image
cashlessclay in reply to bwochf

I use 2 oz of oatmeal, 3.2 oz water, and 2-3 goji berries. I bring it to a boil, then turn down to med-low. Let it cook until moisture (steam) stops. It's very chewy and dry. Give it a stir every 1-2 minutes. I then have it with ample walnuts and about 5 red raspberries. This is all done on a 1960 Frigidaire range top. I tried to update the range, but couldn't find a 1961 model.

in reply to cashlessclay

Dam! That sounds good . I like it under cooked . Feel like Mr Ed eating oats ...look at the musculature of horses and they eat no meat .. just oats and hay ...Being born in 61 was good for me ..

rococo profile image
rococo in reply to bwochf

Too soft to induce the flow of saliva from chewing.

pilot52 profile image
pilot52

I am glad this way of eating works ....but the other half of the equation is aerobic and strength training...I am not as strict as you guys but work my ass off in the gym and outside...7 days a week.??? no about 4 to 5...today I push a mower for 45 min and do a upper body lift, and take my Golden paddle boarding. We may even take a late day jog..Planking and stretch...hot tub....and singing on my back deck looking at the lake...Sleep great.....Blue Skies a Grounded Sky King...

SsgCulldelight profile image
SsgCulldelight

Kool bro you have the key, listened to our parents and kept a healthy diet, but u know it's jarhead lmao, keep going bro

MikeUSNA64 profile image
MikeUSNA64

Ornish Diet

The Ornish diet, which focuses on low fat plant based food, has shown some promise for low grade prostate cancer (Gleason 3/3). Here is part of an article from Harvard Health plus a link to the article.

“Results

“The trial lasted one year. Three members of the lifestyle treatment group dropped out because the program was too arduous, but none left because they required conventional therapy. Six members of the control group required conventional therapy during the year because of the progression of their disease, indicated by rising PSA levels (4 patients) or MRI images that showed tumor enlargement (2 patients).

“Initially, the treatment and control groups had identical PSA levels, which averaged 6.3 ng/ml. At the end of the year, a small but significant difference was evident. The average PSA in the intensive lifestyle group fell to 6 ng/ml whereas the average PSA in the untreated men rose to 6.7 ng/ml. And tests of how the men's blood affected the growth of prostate cancer cells showed similar changes. Blood samples from the lifestyle treatment group inhibited prostate cancer cell growth by 70%, while samples from the control group inhibited growth by only 9%.” health.harvard.edu/mens-hea...

monte1111 profile image
monte1111

Are Froot Loops OK?

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to monte1111

hahahhaha You're a loop.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 07/14/2019 2:11 PM DST

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to monte1111

And an endless one .....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 07/14/2019 4:29 PM DST

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n

gotta change your userID to meatlessclay

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Sunday 07/14/2019 2:12 PM DST

tetech profile image
tetech

Time to ask for protons at the prostate bed. Best Before the PSA exceeds 0.5. One of the guys at the CDMRP.mil conference got his PSA back down without any side effects. He was the only guy to try it and he recommended it if my PSA would again recurr. I had surgery 2006, IGRT in 2014.

My understanding is anything with Sugar will induce a needed spike in insulin. Part of this is IGF1 which can speed cancer growth. Try to avoid B vitamins especially Folate (speeds DNA and cancer growth) as well as avoiding dairy, chicken and eggs. Add Salmon, Walnuts, Broccoli, Olive oil.

Cheerr profile image
Cheerr in reply to tetech

Hey,

Shelled or in-shell walnuts?

And folate food also includes green leafy veggies, beetroot and Vitamin C foods. So I’m confused if we can add these to our diet?

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