Diet and Cancer Progression - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer
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Diet and Cancer Progression

cashlessclay
cashlessclay
82 Replies

With a doubling time of 7 months and treatment failure in

early 2013, my PSA should be slightly above 100. Instead,

my PSA's in late 2017 were 0.461, 0.448, 0.455 and 0.447.

More recent PSA's are 0.442, 0.435, 0.416, and 0.427. I'm

using no treatment than diet and modest exercise.

For breakfast, I have a small portion of steel cut oatmeal,

cooked with minimal water, and have with walnuts and

and about 5 raspberries. That works fine. I have totally

killed the diet (PSADT returns to 7 months) by:

1. presoaking the oats

2. adding extra water when cooking

3. adding extra (almond) milk when eating and

4. adding too many berries.

In each case, the diet once again worked upon reversal.

With sensitivities such as this, how can diet related trials/studies

be of value?

82 Replies
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Steveo3312

What do you eat for lunch and dinner?

What foods and drink do you

avoid?

Reply
cashlessclay

Steve, it's a vegan with some (wild caught) seafood. I avoid foods

that cause an insulin spike ( all fast carbs) and foods that are high

in iron. Both are diet killers. I drink green tea, coffee and almond milk.

I avoid all juices and sodas. Small amounts of POM seem to be a neutral.

I avoid most fruits . . . but tart apples, raspberries, kiwi, and grapefruit

in small amounts, at the end of lunch and/or dinner, appears to be ok.

I have some raspberries and soy every day.

Reply
Steveo3312

Okay thanks.

I had a broth bowl for lunch and it had some tofu in it.

I have been avoiding soy because I have read some contradicting opinions on it.

I think from what I have read if you have a hormone sensitive PC then soy is a no no.

Problem is I dont know if I have a hormone sensitive PC

Reply
cashlessclay

I agree it's unclear on soy from my background work. So I took a working diet

that contained soy and remove all soy for the test period. Diet became useless.

I then returned soy to the diet and it was fine.

Reply
Steveo3312

That was a good test!

Did you notice that your PSA went down when you were eating a soy based diet?

Reply
cashlessclay

I don't see a dose dependency with soy. A little works as well as a lot.

I also don't see any magic bullets. It appears to me that it's the sum of

many things that make it work, but low insulin-response foods and low

iron foods are important. That leaves out red meat as well as oysters,

clams and more than a few mussels per week. Scallops and squid are

a better choice.

1 like
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Steveo3312

Interesting ... why the iron?

Reply
cashlessclay

About four years ago I had a good diet suddenly turn south. The PSADT went from

44 months to 6 months. The only difference was I took an iron supplement for about 10 days out of the then 3 month test period. I stopped the iron supplement and the diet returned to a 45 month PSADT. Research on PCa and iron indicates to

me that it was reasonable to assume that indeed iron was the cause of the diet breakdown.

Reply
Steveo3312

I have a very similar diet but I am not done perfecting it yet.

I do have my break downs every once and a while.

Here is my diet and exercise routine. I try to eat this on a consistent basis.

In the morning I have.

Note: All ingredients are organic, gluten free, low or no sugar.

2 cups of coffee\ filter watered (zero water filter)

1 - 2 cups of filter water

3 raw brazil nuts

1 Medjool Date

I start my exercise routine. It takes about 60 minutes a day.

I alternate

5K Power Walk\Jog\Run\Walk and 15 mins of weights

The next day I do T25 by Sean T, High Intensity calisthenics

and 15 mins of weights

For break fast I eat

1/2 cup gluten free oatmeal with filtered water

with 1 tbl of ground flax seed

A dash of Ceylon cinnamon

8 - 10 raisins (for the boron)

10AM I have my nutra bullet shake (All ingredients are Organic)

This consist of

Handful spinach

Handful kale

1/2 cup blue berries

1/2 cup raspberries,

Avocado,

1 12 oz cup of green tea (triple bagged),

Filtered water

1 TBL of ground Turmeric root

A pinch of pepper

A chunk of ginger

Broccoli Florets plus stalks (4 small)

2 tbl spoons of frozen Broccoli Sprouts, blended separately and then added in later

8 oz of pom juice

1 green granny smith apple

11 AM I eat a handful of organic nuts, Almonds,Macadamia,

Pecans and Hazelnuts

For Lunch I usually try to Indian Vegetable dishes along with some type of Lentil (All Vegan)

Amy's Organic burgers

Chickpea or lentil based pasta with pasta sauce.

The sauce will contain copious amounts of garlic and onions

1:30 I drink 20 oz of green tea (Double Bagged). After I am finished that I drink 8 oz of water.

3 PM I eat a pink grapefruit, I try to eat all of the white skin that surrounds the grapefruit.

3:30 I drink 20 oz of green tea (Double Bagged). After I am finished I drink 8 oz of water.

For Dinner I try to eat a huge Salad with Organic Black Beans and a homemade Hummus based dressing.

I do eat Wild caught Shrimp, Salmon from Alaska.

Once a month I will eat about 8 - 10 oz of pot roast, grass fed organic beef or Goat meat.

The cooking method is usually by a slow cooker.

My fish is usually cook by some stewing method.

Ex Indian Fish Curry

On Friday nights (tonight) I will have about three glasses of

Organic, no sulfates, Red Wine from Italy.

I am trying to follow Dr Gregger's routine ... still a work in progress.

I am thinking I would need to cut out the wine, the meat and the Pom Juice to perfect it but I am not there yet.

I did find a way to cut out the POM juice recently.

I order a lot of stuff from nuts.com

and they recently started carrying freeze dried organic POM seeds.

After I finish my POM juice inventory, I will just eat a spoonful of the seed while drinking my nutra bullet shake.

Anyways this probably TMI but I want to learn from you and anyone else on what you are doing to slow or prevent progression.

4 likes
Reply
Steveo3312

I forgot to mention when I make my nutra bullet concoction, the ingredient and the water that I put into makes about 3 days worth of shakes.

I drink a 32 OZ bottle a day.

Reply
ITCandy
ITCandy
in reply to Steveo3312

Looks great. I should write down a plan and stick to it rather than winging it. Although many like to obtain nutrients from food, I prefer to supplement 6 mg boron daily. According to this, you'd have to eat a lot of sugary raisins to achieve that amount (maybe you consume a lot of other foods that contain)

whfoods.com/genpage.php?tna...

1 like
Reply
Steveo3312
Steveo3312
in reply to ITCandy

The only thing that I can remember about boron is that someone in this site mentioned that a researcher from Mayo said that Boron was of interest. Do you know of any conclusive reputable studies that say that Boron can slow or prevent PC progression?

Reply
ITCandy
ITCandy
in reply to Steveo3312
1 like
Reply
Currumpaw

Hey Steveo3312,

Go to LifeExtension's site to access studies on boron.

Your 3:00 PM grapefruit--the last thing I do in my "empty stomach" AM routine is an entire organic lemon blended with a half liter of spring water. I keep the heavy glass carafe in the freezer to keep temps down when blending. A Metformin, two 81 mg aspirin and a gram of vitamin C are washed down by my bitter lemonade. Check out lemons which have been used for eons as a purifier and now there are other claims.

Currumpaw

1 like
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Steveo3312

Thanks for the input,

I just saw a video from dr. Greger saying they are one of the most anti-cancer fruits, I was on the lemon kick in the morning but I need to start that back up at night before I go to bed like you, do you just take the inside of a lemon or do you blend the whole thing peel and all.

So do you take the lemon after you're through having breakfast or do you drink the lemon at night before you go to bed, my doctor won't let me get a prescription for metformin.

I am thinking if I eat enough plants and turmeric, I probably don't need the aspirin and it's a lot safer for you at least that's from what I read.

Reply
cigafred
cigafred
in reply to Steveo3312

Agree it is safer to skip the aspirin. Myers agrees, and see my post healthunlocked.com/advanced...

Reply
Steveo3312
Steveo3312
in reply to ITCandy

Thanks for the link.

Reply
Steveo3312

Thanks that is a great link.

Where do you buy your boron from?

Reply
ITCandy
ITCandy
in reply to Steveo3312

I shop Vitacost mostly but it's available everywhere. Look for chelated form 3 mg.

Reply
Steveo3312
Steveo3312
in reply to ITCandy

Okay thanks do you take 3mg or 6mg a day

Reply
ITCandy
ITCandy
in reply to Steveo3312

I take 6 but you’re probably fine with 3 with your healthy diet.

Reply
Steveo3312
Steveo3312
in reply to ITCandy

Ok thanks

Reply
Frigataflyer

I buy my boron at Walmart. 20 Mule team. Take between a 1/4 and a half a Tsp with oatmeal or spaghetti sauce. It is pretty innocuous.

Reply
Steveo3312

Okay thank you.

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cashlessclay

I do not eat any dried fruit, and certainly would not have any in the morning.

Are you drinking the coffee black? Coffee with sugar, in the AM, would kill my

diet. Are you getting PSA tests for feedback? If you still have your prostate

PSA feedback is much harder.

Reply
Steveo3312

I drink my coffee black.

I still have my prostate.

Had proton therapy about a 15 months ago, PSA went from 4.29 down to .40 now

Reply
Myriammole

And what else is your diet? What is your Gleason score, initial diagnosis, what was the initial therapy? Can you keep normal weight with your diet?

Reply
cashlessclay

Treatment consisted of RP (2007) and SRT (2011). Biopsy 4+3, pathology 3+3, PSADT = 7 months. Lost 30 pounds, very stable for last 2-3 years. HDL from high 30's to about 60.

Triglycerides from about 200 to low 50's.

Reply
Myriammole

How about oils? How many calories per day? What is your BMI? Are you on lots of supplements or off-label meds (statin, metformin, aspirin, etc)?

Reply
cashlessclay

Oils are olive and avocado. I do not count calories, but I eat all I want, just not

anything I want. I'm 6' 2" and 145 lbs, down from 175 lbs. Only supplement to

get to normal range (D3 and B12), no off-label meds. Not against supplements, just wanted to do it with foods only, if I could. It's working the way I want it to,

so no supplements planned as of now.

Reply
Myriammole

That's quite amazing, even if Gleason 6 is not aggressive. So, no legumes, no rice, no wheat, no potatoes, no starch in general, little fruit, what else don't you eat (for a whole food plant based vegan) and how often do you eat fish? Sorry for so many questions, but you are quite an interesting case!

Reply
cashlessclay

I eat legumes and brown rice in moderation. In general, few starchy foods. If the

glycemic index is high, I stay away. If iron content is high, I stay away. For seafood,

wild caught salmon and herring, squid, mussels and perhaps 2 shrimp/month. I find fish to be neutral, I had fish every day, and almost none at all, with similar results.

I use turmeric, ginger, garlic, oregano, rosemary, spicy red pepper as food and not

supplements. I think there is more synergy in food than in supplements. But, if I

wasn't getting results, I would be trying supplements. My goal is to try to avoid ADT as long as possible. I have been assured by my Urologist that diets don't work. But,

I'm pretty sure that 0.427 is less than 100.

1 like
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Steveo3312

What does your PSA have to be before they recommend you going on ADT?

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cashlessclay

Urologist said we start Lupron at PSA=5. I will wait for visible mets.

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j-o-h-n

6'2" and 145 lbs?.... Your'e not cashless your'e weightless.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 06/22/2019 12:55 PM DST

1 like
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Ralph1966

Your BMI will be 18.6 based on your weight and hight, and this is below the lower normal BMI of 19?

Reply
Currumpaw

Myriammole,

Oils? Is anyone here using black seed oil?

Currumpaw

Reply
Myriammole

yes! 1 tbs

Reply
Ralph1966

Your Gleason score is 6-7 put you in low risk group. This diet most likely will not work for high risk PCa with Gleason 8-9 and above.

Was your PCa confined within the capsule or it was extended locally?

I read stories of people with your G score cured after SRT!

You are doing a good job, but I believe that it is the type and your PCa score that determing the good outcome!

Thank you for sharing your story diet and healthy life style is good for all of us!

4 likes
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Myriammole

I agree. On the other hand having had treatment failure (rising PSA) he must have (had) micro metastasis.

Reply
Ralph1966

Still the aggressiveness will be different then if he have Gleson 8 and above. His G score after pathology is 6. It will progress very solwely.

Diet and losing weight will be less effective in the high risk, without ADT therapy in MHO.

1 like
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Frigataflyer

First of all, thank you for sharing your information and starting this great discussion.

How often do you get your PSA tested? I like the idea of bioassaying food items based on PSA changes. After getting a PSA of 128, I tried to do what you are doing, but I did not do it as well as you and six months later, I started in on Lupron in Jan 2019.

Now that I am on Lupron, I am much more strict in avoiding the dietary No Nos. Currently, I am plant based with lots of olive, coconut and MCT oil and, following Steven Gundry, minimal lectins. I will use PSA to assess the Lectin theory because pressure cooking oatmeal, tomatoes, beans etc takes a lot of time and restricts my recipes. When I eat meat, I often choose organ meats which are very high in Iron. What is your ferritin level? I haven’t checked mine for a while as it always was well within “normal”. But I will get it done on Monday. Thanks again.

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cashlessclay

Currently, I get a Labcorp ultrasensitive test every 5 weeks. When I started this adventure testing was every 3 months. But as PSA increased, I could test more frequently. It's a

signal-to-noise issue. I do not watch my lectin intake. My ferritin levels are low, 34-44 range. Organ meats are off the table, high in arachidonic acid and iron.

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Patrick-Turner

Perhaps you are lucky to have had a rare response to so called treatment by diet and moderate exercize because nobody else I have read about has had such a response, and I've read hundreds of posts about lifestyle and Pca, so perhaps the initial treatment you had just took its time to work and it now seems like diet & exercise has done you good. I've done more exercize than moderate since diagnosis in 2009, and kept on a good diet, with oats in the morning, and salad sandwich, and much salad and greens at dinner. I felt 22 on most days and nights since 2010 when treatment started and at 72, am enjoying a lull in Psa increase after spending $40,000 on 4 shots of Lu177. But a hip has decided to give up, and its a lot of pain, so no more cycling, and I don't know if any treatment will ease that problem.

Everyone with cancer should indeed try to get fit, and get weight down and minimise co-morbidities but maybe it just makes many ppl feel good, and less depressed than if they wham themselves wit too much food and booze.

good . l knew a guy last years who got fit, lost 20Kg, and braced for the fight with Pca and he was dead 3 years after diagnosis. A real nice man, wife, kids, a tragedy. But another has lasted since diagnosis at 62 in 1993.

So we all live without really knowing the future. I hope your luck continues. I see you mention 4 steps of cooking oats with added with a special 1 to 4 ritual and for you, the ritual seems curative, but from my scientifically guided point of view, your stomach just takes from what you eat what it wants, and to probably could be proved that doing things differently with oats, walnuts, raspberries, almond oil would not lead to any different outcome with you - or with anyone else - and even if the raspberries had been mixed with a virgin's pee under the light of a new moon at midnight, the outcome for most would be that Pca continued on it its way to kill a man in the same time as eating too much at Mac Donalds, and washing it down with the cheapest beer.

In times gone by, when some ppl were much more religious than now, they'd wear a horse hair jacket that itched real bad, and flog themselves with a whip, splashed ashes over themselves, or tried severe fasting plus prayers to God. Nah, that really only teaches a man that pain is painful, and outcome is anything but curative.

I have tried a few "alternative things" including bitter almonds which contain amygdalin which contains cyanide and cannabis oil with low THC / high CBD and my Psa still went up and up. I eat oats too, but they don't do miracles IMHO. If they did enough miracles, then everyone would soon find out, by means of social media, including this group, and we'd all try eating oats but most may be eating bacon and eggs and chips with plenty tomato sauce, and a coffee or two at breakfast, and not all would be slim and active, and the Pca DNA would not at all be affected by what is eaten, unless its Zytiga, or Xtandi, or Cosadex.

I really do hope your luck continues.

Today was a beautiful fine winter day, and I went to a concert in a small Anglican church that just has music on some saturdays, all classical, and its a fine venue, and maybe the food of good music heals, but its never been proven. I don't believe in God as others do. Maybe I'm denied the healing by a God who I don't believe in. I prefer being rational, but I much enjoyed good music played by ppl who Nature has placed around me in my small city where I happen to exist, a remarkable lucky confluence of circumstances, a real blessing for me, from Nature, and so much better than is occurring in the lives of maybe 3.5 billion other folks on Earth, where many hope the witchdoctor is good with splashed powders and blown smoke and muttered spells.

Life still has wonderment, as Time the Dismantler does its work.

Patrick Turner.

10 likes
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Haniff

Hi Patrick

Like your very rational take Bro. I simply believe we shd do what we love, eat in moderation and laugh a lot. Exercise all you want cause a fit body helps tremendously in the fight.

My very best to all

Haniff

1 like
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Patrick-Turner

I believe in what you say about fitness, and diet, and I pulled myself together long ago in 2006 to reduce weight by -20Kg to get BMI < 25,

waist < 100cm, and I got fast on the bicycle and resting HR went from 65 to 47. Its still 52. Maybe you implied that what you eat works to get the result you got with Psa, but for other men "it ain't necessarily so" as that famous old song went. Right now, I have a hip that gets very sore, with maybe cartilage damage due to previous horizontal EBRT beams to PG through my hips, something than could not be changed when I asked "why not" when getting the 70 Grey EBRT in 2010.

So now exercise is impossible, and agony is the result after exercise, so this means gardening is not done, house becomes a mess, and I reduce walking to a bare minimum, and sooner rather than later, my fitness will disappear, and the feel good factor of being fit will depart. I now understand why there is an opioid crisis in some countries because ppl can get the drugs so cheaply but cannot afford any medical treatments. I see my local medical doc on Tuesday to get more done to define the cause of my pain, which is not cancer in bones, because Psa is now only 1.6, after 4 x Lu177 hits.

I gotta keep trying to stay independent.

Patrick Turner.

1 like
Reply
DavidHealth

I found that anti-inflammatories are much more effective than pain killers. Even 25mg diclofenac twice daily can make a huge difference and fairly safe.

Reply
Patrick-Turner

I have tried Voltaren over many years, ( diclofenac ) ever since I got occasional bad back aches during my building career days. At first it worked like magic. But later for knees it stopped working soon, so I began Celebrex until that stopped working, then Vioox, and when I stopped Vioox a week before a scheduled arthroscopy op on both knees to trim cartilages in 2004, I had bout of tachy cardia so docs had to slow HR and delay op for 3 months where pain was then high. Makers of Vioox were sued with huge legal suits because although it worked for arthritis pain fairly well, it caused heart trouble. But my mum took it for over 4 years, no problems, she was about 80 then.

But after arthroscopy, the pain went right down, no more drugs needed, allowing me to do many more things without pain killers or anti-inflammatory drugs. I got back on bike in 2006, and have cycled 140,000km since, lost 20Kg, kept it off. I see a doc on Tuesday next, maybe I need a cortisone inject to a cyst on a tendon which is not a big thing, but can cause much pain if not treated.

The way forward is never fully known until time passes and maybe you find what looked like forward was backward.

Patrick Turner.

Reply
j-o-h-n
j-o-h-n
in reply to Haniff

"and laugh a lot"...... That's my line!!!!!!👀👀👀

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 06/22/2019 12:58 PM DST

2 likes
Reply
Currumpaw

Hey Patrick-Turner,

Regarding the ability of one's body to absorb nutrients whenever I take supplements I take bromelain and eat some freshly ground, organic black pepper to increase absorption. Our ability to digest and utilize nutrients decreases with age.

Currumpaw

Reply
cashlessclay

Patrick says . . . "perhaps the initial treatment you had just took its time to work and it now seems like diet & exercise has done you good".

Patrick, any deviation from the basic diet has shown up in my PSA results, usually as a reversion to the "non-diet" PSADT of about 7 months. This has happen nine times to date.

I track the shellfish I have each test period, and can see the PSA response to such. It doesn't take too many mussels before the diet stops working.

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GeorgeGlass

Being rational is defined differently by each person. What's rational to one person may not be to another. You have the right not to believe in God because of your individual assessment of what you've seen during your life. However, that doesn't prove its rational. If someone denies the existence of God and ends up in hell for eternity, it won't take more than a minute to realize that their earthly denial of God was a very irrational decision. Just food for thought...i don't try to change atheist opinions. I just defend Christianity and existence of God and i believe that it's very rational.

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Patrick-Turner

Unfortunately, God is an imagined entity, with human qualities assigned to him, her, or it, and to make life easier us humans have invented gods to worship to ease the anxiety of existence or to have power over others, and I see that all ideas of any type of God by countless societies since civilisation began were made by men who initially imagined a god, then quickly found a few other crazy ppl who agreed, and next thing they forced their ideas about god onto other ppl, but it was just all BS. So all Gods are never real. Christianity is following Jesus Christ, a very respectable thing to do, because Christ gave us some improvements on the stern harshness of the Old Testament.

Christ's message has been sexed up over 2,000 years, and somehow there is God the Father, Son and Holy Ghost, and the Immaculate conception, and all this crazy theology and then we had the Spanish Inquisition, and numerous rivers of blood over issues of Christianity, with wars fought with both enemies believing God was on their side. Utterly purified BS.

Then here in Oz, 2,000 priests and other religious men just in Catholic church alone have been found out for their paedophilia, and right now Cardinal Pell is in jail for having sex with choir boys, and turning a blind eye to what was going on in "Christian" organisations. Meanwhile, there has never ever been a single message from any god to humans that has been fully proven to have come from a god.

Is Global warming being sent by God? Nope, some would say its a clear message but they don't think humans are changing the weather.

So its all of us 7 billion acting collectively and equal to a huge volcanic eruption that is sending huge amounts of CO2 to air, and if the sea levels rise to drown most coastal cities within 100, or 200 years, don't blame me for not warning you, or blame god for letting it happen, because of our greed, and refusal to be frugal. It took millions of years for the carbon in atmosphere to end up underground in buried plants and animals. Now we insist on burning it, and reversing the natural process in a cosmic blink of an eye. Christians led the charge on betterments of life with industrial revolution, and fixes for Pca. Hooray. But, downside is that humans get greedy, Christians don't know how to stop sinning, and they think their god will forgive them if they say they are sorry. Just all BS, this kind of mental goings on.

But even then we have "Christian nations" unable to "love thine enemy,"

and after 911, instead of an eye for an eye, the US practised revenge on a hugely unjust scale in Middle East, and just how Christian was that? How Christian was the WW2 bombing of European and Japanese cities? Then we had the GFC which made many americans poor, and affected so many badly, because of greed, and was it Christian to print money to get the suits out of trouble, even though they caused it?

So I will never believe in a god, or spirits, afterlife, but what I will share with you is a practice of goodness, but without any God etc.

Hell or Heaven is all part of what humans have imagined, they are not real, so no need to fear being an atheist. There is no reward in Heaven waiting for being good, no punishment of Hell for being bad. There is just life as we have it now, and when we die, there is nothing. If there was evidence I could believe, I would. I am quite happy to have lived, and to have worked hard and to have enjoyed the wonderment of being human. I spent 30 years being a carpenter just like Jesus, and unlike Jesus I never got a chance to deal with money lenders in the temples that are high rise office buildings.

I invite you to question what is real or not more fully.

But much about most religious beliefs is no better than witchcraft mixed with BS. Its not irrational to dispense with God beliefs. I'd invite you to be good without being corrupted by anything involving any God.

I quite like the secular world I live in now where there are more just laws than not, and we might consider the seven virtues and vices and maybe 10 commandments all without ever bringing any God into our thinking or feeling. Maybe more than 10 commandments are needed, why only 10?

Its Sunday, just another day, but cold here. I have a doctor to see on Tuesday, and I don't care if he is a Catholic, Protestant, Muslim, Jew, Buddhist, Hindu, or Athiest. If he knows how to care, I'll listen to him.

Goodness without God seems a mighty and simple idea.

Patrick Turner.

Reply
GeorgeGlass

Life has no meaning without God or afterlife for the soul. Nothing matters on Earth if there is no heaven. We are all entitled to our opinions. Most of the charity and kindness in Earth come from believers of God. That while John Lennon philosophy, imagining there is no God is backwards. America has more divisiveness over the past few decades, that is commensurate with the increased % of people who say they don't believe in God. Let's just agree to disagree. You have the freedom to decide as you like but i pray that you will accept God and accept bridge to eternal life instead of turning away from him.

Best wishes for you.

George

1 like
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Patrick-Turner

I find that I don't need to have meaning, and the meaning of life is that it has none, and God isn't necessary, or heaven, or a souls. I am quite happy to not depend on all these imagined things that have no more credibility than Santa Claus, fairies in the garden. Life just is, until it ain't, and I see the wondrous things around me that Nature took so long to evolve.

I know many good ppl believe in God, but many real arsoles also believe in god, so because anyone does believe God does not make them a better person or the world any better. Some ppl believed the Sun was God. In that case the Sun was real, but what was unreal and stupid and evil was the imagined belief that the Sun had to be worshipped and appeased, so ppl were taken up upon a stone pyramid, and had their hearts ripped out to make the crops grow better, and for other devious reasons. So beliefs and dependence on God beliefs can be very dangerous, and as I said before, history tells us that rivers of blood flowed due to religious wars, and the sooner we liberate to be more self reliant and less damaging to Nature and each other, the better.

I like the hospital staff where I get cared for. Few ever talk about God. He or She, or It is just not needed.

But to many, the communally imagined God is something that helps ppl get on better, but if I went to mass, not a living soul would talk to me, and I'd go home wondering why are those folks so cold, unfriendly, and I'd not ever want to go back again, and I have not, since age 15.

But many of these God botherers sort of know its all BS, but some like other things besides God, so last Saturday I went to a music concert at a small Anglican Church in Cook, in Canberra, and 25 musicians played as best they could to about 150 in audience, and its all classical, with another variation of Four Seasons by Vivaldi and it was all just fine,

and God was not mentioned, no sermon, no BS, and even though it was a lovely afternoon, its only meaning it had was that it was a lovely afternoon, with gathered ppl. I spoke to a few, but most felt awkward, about the closeness of talking to someone they don't know. So I went home alone, and it was about as good as life gets. Much of the classical past of music was about worship of God, because if ppl sang about anything else they might end up burnt at a stake. But the Music transcends the idiotic fairy tale about supernatural beliefs.

BTW, there has always been divisiveness in all societies, and its part of the human condition. It is reality, deal with it. God is not there to swing things to suit you.

Patrick Turner.

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GeorgeGlass

You don't understand because you have rejected God. After you die the truth will be revealed to you one why or the other and I hope YOU can deal with that outcome. For your sake, it would behoove you to accept God before your death but that's your choice.

Reply
Patrick-Turner

Hi George,

I have not rejected God, because God is just not there to reject. I have to share the Planet with many who believe God Is There. But IMHO, God = He, or She, or It, and is merely a communally agreed upon imagined entity that most ppl in most societies have agreed upon and then we have given imagined God to have all these 1,001 human qualities and nearly all tribes and societies have imagined this thing or being outside themselves to be worshipped, and it must be made happy, to gain favours and relief from human suffering that has always been a huge part of all mammalian life since it evolved millions of years ago.

Once anything with a complex brain like us evolves, pretty soon this type of brain finds it has to imagine what is there, but it just ain't, but the imagined God helps many ppl get through the day. Many believe in the horrible old God of the Old testament, and that Jesus was God, an even more absurd and crazy idea to me.

Then after Jesus died, ( No, he didn't ascend to Heaven without wearing a space suit, OK ) and what he taught us was all mostly written down, but to get ppl to believe in Jesus, a pile of fake stories were added, all the miracles, and ppl tend to love the idea of joining a New Faith they could then arrogantly assume was better than everyone else's. Persecutions and wars soon followed and many ppl really found it impossible to not sin by embracing the seven vices and it was difficult to practice the seven virtues, and many struggled to follow the ten commandments, and yet they said they believed in God. God was on their side when they went over to Vietnam to kill 3,000,000 of "them" and only have only 50,000 of "us" die.

So I have my reasons for leaving out anything to do with God in my daily or nightly life.

IMHO, when I die, there will be no truth revealed. This idea is no more than wishful thinking by those anxious about their existence while alive. We all suffer this one. But I put my head on a pillow at night and sleep fairly well despite multiple get ups to pee, and other pains and aches and I can say "Wot, me wurry?" Nope, nobody will inform me of anything when I die. There's no story teller up out there someplace to say "Now listen up good Patrick, because youse is a bloomin slow lerner, and us keepers of the truth have a few things to tell ya that ARE the truth, and ya better start believing or else we'll send ya downstairs and youse can burn for Eternity"

The whole idea of truth being revealed later is all quite neurotic to me. I question all things. if you question, you become a rebel, and if other ppl know you don't believe in God then pretty soon they get a yearning to force you to conform, to believe, and to accept that 2+2 = 6, an that the Earth is really flat, and evolution did not happen because God made it all in 7 days.

Nobody at all has returned after dying to tell us all they met God, or Jesus, and they have not brought a video back where showed what went on at the meeting. ( Has to be an un-faked video, OK ).

The only outcome from me dying is that 84Kg of waste bio material will broken down from complex molecules to simpler ones, and these will meet many other molecules and then reform into other things, plants, maybe some animate life, whatever, and that's The End for me, but existence continues. Some ppl might remember me, and then feel this so strongly they think I am still there, somewhere, as a soul, or a spirit, and this is another story of ppl believing their own BS. I think I happen to be a most non obnoxious and a good law abiding person, and one who always wanted who he ever met to be good and nice, and so nobody should remember me badly and condemn me as an un-believing heathen who should have been burnt at a stake when alive.

2 weeks ago, I met a lady of 40, alone in the café where I had lunch, and I was talking to a man at next table how we all should practice good without being distracted by God, so "goodness without God", and she said something, not sure what to us, and I then tried to converse with her for a couple of hours. Unfortunately, she was so softly spoken I could hardly hear a word she said, even though I have no trouble with the radio at home or other men who speak nice and clearly, so I began to see her reticence at being human, and thus why she was alone. But she was right into God in a big way, and I didn't mind, I think I might have said basically that goodness matters, God does not, and its just an idea... Anyway, she offers me a "healing prayer", and I graciously accepted because that's a way some ppl express their good will to others, even strangers, and while she held one hand against my sore hip and other on my chest, she mumbled a long beseeching prayer that I be healed.

I thanked her. I also mentioned that I was 72, riddled with cancer, and there was a huge and unfortunate generation gap between us, and that what we might ever do together could only be friendship that in good circumstances is the way ppl bridge gaps. Because she seemed alone, and was travelling the world from Canada, I suggested she turn up at the local athletic club where no doubt she'd meet some healthy men her age.

She didn't agree, or not agree, but then all she did was as a result of God calling on her to do so. So I doubt she wanted a handsome heathy young man to be with. Now all this is perfectly benign, and thank goodness she was not some Nazi extremist or a sales rep wanting to sell me crap I never ever would buy.

We parted feeling good, I guess, but since then, it seems that if I did get a healing, then its happening extremely slowly, because the pains and aches continued, and I needed to tweak my medications to get the least pain. Does God only heal those who believe in Him? What sort of God won't heal those who don't believe in him? Would you not think that a good sort of God would have given a Kwik-fix healing to entice me to believe?

I'll leave you to ponder all that, but no doubt I won't have the slightest effect on the strength of your beliefs. Most ppl contain a bagfull of ideas that other folks think ought to be got rid of, or "re-cycled" a less untactful suggestion.

So George, I hope have a good weekend, and do whatever behooving you see fit.

Its lunch time, I need to eat, and Hoo Noze who I might meet.

Patrick Turner.

Reply
GeorgeGlass

I've noticed that atheists often speak about God more than anyone else. If it's not important to them and they don't believe in God then why speak about it unless they want to control everyone else's thoughts or else it makes them feel better about life and the lack of meaning/ no afterlife, if other people agree with their atheist beliefs.

The other mistake atheists make is thinking that believers of God worship and pray only for coping or comfort, especially in their time of need. This couldn't be further from the truth. I've had a wonderful, very-fulfilling life so far. So much so that dozens of people have told me that I should write a book detailing my life. I realize that that life was due to the graces and blessing of God and not due to anything special about me.

I've been worshipping God my entire life because it connects me with the Lord and fills me with the holy spirit. You don't believe in those things, which is why you don't feel the enrichment and meaning from it but now matter how many theories and anecdotes you write to me, you have absolutely no possible way to prove your position. There is no evidence that God doesn't exist. Anyone who says definitively that God does not exist is arrogant and full of themselves. They fail to admit that humans are not the creators of the universe and aren't smart enough to know everything about the universe and who was responsible for that creation. Even if a big bang formed our universe, it doesn't mean that it just happened without God's initiation.

A quote that comes to mind when someone is 100% sure of something that they can't prove is: “The problem with the world is that the intelligent people are full of doubts, while the stupid ones are full of confidence.”

― Charles Bukowski

I'm not calling you stupid but I do think it's ridiculous and arrogant to act like you have evidence that there is no God. I admit that I don't have irrefutable evidence of the existence of God but I've read and seen enough anecdotal evidence for me to firmly believe in God's existence and our opportunity for everlasting life after this earthly experience.

Regardless of our difference of opinion, I wish you the best, as well as everyone else on this site who are dealing with disease.

Cheers,

George

Reply
Patrick-Turner

Hi George, most of what you say is a pile of things that I can't agree with, and I've had a nice life too.

I am fully aware of ppl who believe God and the Lord are real. I understand how they attribute a nice life to what imagined god beings gave them. I never for one second thought you would alter your beliefs after I presented evidence that beliefs in God or the Lord, etc are nothing more than imagined beings who are not real. You are completely free to say this guy in the sky, who really is an unreal entity in your mind gave you the nice life.

All those claims make no sense. And I meet God Botherers who would have far more to say about God, especially on those "Christian" TV stations and radio stations. I have zero need to equal their output of torrents of words.

God exists only as a communally agreed upon imagined and defined entity, that's what I believe, so I do believe in the god they have imagined. Man made God, not the other way around.

But to me, God is no more real than Santa Claus.

Christ was real, but was just a man. He had some wonderful ideas that few ppl really follow because what they follow is what a given church decrees to be righteous. I was brought up Catholic, and happy to never go to Mass since I was about 15, when the penny dropped, religion was a grand con job. Opiate of the masses perhaps.

I believe Nature is there. This is the indefinable thing that is infinitely larger than any of us, and its been there for eternity. It matters not one bit that I cannot understand Nature, we were never made to be able to, and its arrogant to suggest otherwise. So while we are here, just be good because time is running out. If God is real, who made God?

I am totally unable to be brainwashed, hypnotised, conned or talked into buying junk that's bad for me. Like Jesus, I spent 25 years as a carpenter. But due to DNA imperfections that an imperfect Nature had installed into me I had to stop being a carpenter because knees went bad. I've spent life since 1993 being interested in electronics and worked for peanut wages for 18 years before I retired from helping ppl to have better audio sound gear. Listening to Bach's music sounded well. Bach had 21 kids, and it seemed he was extremely into sex, so was that excessive lust? But he basically was brilliant with musical compositions, and of course to be favoured in his time he had to be a Christian and we have to wonder if when he was a humpin' of his missus did he think about God? Anyway I quite like all classical music, especially when played in small churches with good acoustics and I am moved by works by Vivaldi, a priest, but that's where it stops, I see no value in any god worshipping.

There's wonderment in Nature, and music. I don't much like the huge cathedrals built to intimidate us little ppl to grovel in the presence of God. I find that the Egyptian pyramids to be a terrible expression of slave labour all based on ancient God beliefs that were pure BS.

Same goes for the south American beliefs in their gods to whom their priests felt they had to give human sacrifices to, to curry favours, better harvests. Ripping ppl's hearts out on top of stone pyramids. So much BS, everywhere you look throughout history.

There's about to be a big court case here because a very good football player quoted the bible on FarcePuke where it said gays and atheists were destined to go to Hell, along with a lot of others. His bosses sacked him, claiming he broke terms of his contract. He thinks he has a right to religious freedom no matter what the contract said. Basically, he virtually said all these pp should go to Hell, and many ppl got mightily upset. The footy player probably thinks God inspired the writing of the Bible, and so as a result of him quoting such inhumane parts of the bible ppl said he agreed with God who said all these folks were going to go to Hell. So nobody knows what legal outcome will be, but it seems God is on trial for saying what nasty things ought to happen to ppl, but I for one don't think it matters much because such beliefs are so invalid.

The footy player wants $10 million as compensation for a blown career, and probably his life is now ruined and probably his belief in God will not change one bit, but of course if he can't play football any more then he could become a carpenter, now that's an honest trade, is it not?

Being a carpenter pays far less than being a star footy player. Jesus didn't seem to mind not being wealthy, nor did I.

Meanwhile, my Pca seems under control for now.

It probably will come back. And BTW, I don't believe that will be the work of The Devil, the evil entity we imagine to be behind all the shit that happens in life.

Try to have a nice day at church tomorrow.

Patrick Turner.

Reply
GeorgeGlass

Patrick, Just because you say you have evidence doesn't mean that you do. Evidence is irrefutable proof, beyond a reasonable doubt. Nobody on earth has that. They may be arrogant and think they do, but they don't. Man isn't smart enough to comprehend the complexity of the universe, at least at this point in time and I don't believe they ever will because man will be gone from the earth within a short period of time - less than a thousand years.

What you call botherers on TV are spreading the word of God and connecting millions of people with God and the holy spirit. Why do they bother atheists? Because atheists have their own God, which is a church of belief in man, which is a failed pursuit because man is not perfect like God. Man has many faults. When man gets cocky and arrogant he believes he knows all about the world and the universe. There are many more "botherers" on TV these days with no morality, no belief in right vs. wrong. Ultimately, it doesn't bother me very much because I have grace in knowing I will have eternal life. Those who renounce God will not have that. They are unsettled inside and thus, they usually act out by trying to control the thoughts of believers without even realizing that they are doing it. That's why they are always telling people that they don't believe in God.

Thanks for your wishes. Church was moving and informative on Sunday as always.

By the way, I dont think the devil is behind my having cancer but I do think that people in life can be affected by stress and other forms of negative thoughts, which are inconsistent from what God teaches us in the bible. When we become too consumed with work and not enough time on God and rest, we compromise our health.

Take care,

George

Reply
Patrick-Turner

Hi George, I know that scientists believe in whatever they think is the truth about what they observe, and the best scientists leave room for doubts, because they ain't arrogant and are humble. Unfortunately, many devout believers in God have no real evidence of God's existence except what is imagined in their heads. God is a communally agreed upon imagined God. And then a pile of ppl in other religions have their gods, and they all believe theirs is the Only True God, and its all a pile of BS. The bible is a pile of faked up stories to get ppl brainwashed to believe in God, and get their soul to heaven if they are good, and they go to hell if they don't be good. The story of Jesus was not written about until many years after he died on a cross because he was a darn nuisance to Jewish elders and the Romans. He was a rebel with a good message that has been ignored grandly by God believers on a massive scale. I would argue its good to believe in Jesus, if you chuck out all the stuff about God, and Jesus being God's son, and all the theological nonsense is being abandoned slowly, because some ppl persist in not arranging their behaviour on evidence based ideas.

What if Jesus was not a man? What if a woman called Jesine was born to change much of the world? How soon would it have been before she'd have been labelled a Jezzabel? And ignored by most men?

The beliefs in God simply appear quite irrational to me, but all anyone has to do while alive is to be a good person without any silly God belief,

just as billions of ppl before the Bible was written did. They often had strange beliefs, all imagined, but unless they were good to each other their survival was threatened, so that's why those who were good were able to get women pregnant more often than those who were arsoles,

and this was and is just an evolutionary trend. The good were good at living the longest, sharing and caring, they wanted their tribe to be strong.

How many ppl who believe in God are hypocrites? They sin daily with greed and gluttony and practice the other 5 vices, and few of the 7 virtues.

I doubt beliefs or goodness or badness affects the way we get cancer or not. Plenty of horrid ppl died at 95. Plenty of good ppl died at 30.

DNA behaviour is unaffected by most things, although smoking is likely to encourage lung cancer, and eating too much is likely to bring on diabetes. Hard work made me strong not weak. Health runs out at whatever speed our DNA determines as well as what influences the traumas of life are.

I began my adult life being a carpenter's apprentice, and chose the same job as Jesus. I felt like Jesus every time I made a table, chair, window or formwork for concrete. It was hard real work, and I felt whole but many of my peers dived into occupations where they could not "succeed" unless they sinned grievously on a daily basis.

I saw how corporate behaviour was so "un-godly" and inhumane, and un-Christlike, and for me, life was always simple, work hard to earn your dollars, make others happy before yourself, and yet I never attracted a bride who would stay on the porch, and even the devout Christians were always looking for a better man, shopping around, and the whole darn thing about connection with other ppl was difficult, nobody meant what they said, and any belief in anything up in the sky someplace merely confused everyone if they ever contemplated anything serious.

I am happy to not believe in fairy tales, content in knowing there is no afterlife, and I do not need anyone to agree with me so I have no desire to attend a church where atheists celebrate the idea of godlessness.

I am mentally secure enough to not need a daddy in the sky. I never had a family of my own, so your kids will not have to compete with mine at buying dwindling earth resources.

I have found I don't need a tribe to belong to, and family life is not necessary. I didn't find love in life, and that just does not matter.

I don't even know if I am an atheist and you don't and can't know, because atheist is a label dreamed up by ppl's minds. Whatever I am is of little consequence, but I leave room for doubts, and from what little I know, there is some force bigger than we could ever imagine that led to the evolved existence of us, and the Universe, and a possible infinite number of universes beyond the one we find ourselves within.

But whatever huge entity there is can only be its unseen self. We are arrogant to say this entity is God with human characteristics, and perfect. Is anything perfect? by whose definition? - its a crazy silly idea to assign human characteristics to something we imagine is there.

We have only little finite minds, and the full study of Infinity and Eternity seems like it can't be seriously analysed by small finite minds. I won't mind dying while knowing very little about the reasons for the whole of existence.

Following the last of 4 x Lu177 shots last May, my Psa is gliding down and is now 0.57, and despite the fact that I do not share your beliefs in God.

Nature exists. And we do, and its benign of me to ask Nature to grant you a long life. Whether Nature devotes some more life to you or not is unmeasurable, but I mean well.

If Jesus Christ returned to us today, I'd happily have him come and stay at my house, and I'd ask him to get busy fixing many things on my house, and let him use all the tools of my time as a carpenter and not charge him any rent. I'm sure we would have much to talk about at dinner time. I know a girl who believes in God a lot, so she'd make an ideal GF for Jesus 2.0, so He'd be nourished in mind and body for his stay here. But we all know what happened when Jesus 1.0 got real busy preaching. Lots of trouble. Ended badly. Such a rotten end to a wonderful bloke. History tends to repeat itself.

Patrick Turner.

Reply
GeorgeGlass

Nature was created by God, like everything else to include all the scientific discoveries regarding dark matter, anti-matter, relativity, gravity, the theory of everything etc etc etc. Much of it still isn't understood by the world's smartest scientists because it is designed by God to be beyond our understanding. You don't understand anything about Jesus. Things didn't end badly for Jesus. They ended better than anyone ever imagined. I believe he arose from the dead and was brought into heaven at the right hand of God. All of the worlds sins were forgiven if they choose to ask for his forgiveness. For those that chose not to believe it, that is their choice and I believe will truly end very badly for them, either in hell or as dust, but not in heaven. One man's perspective on the resurrection: Billions more people believe this as well: lightworkers.com/4-reasons-...

I find it intriguing that you comment so frequently on your cancer and on your non-belief in God. I don't connect the two. I am devoted to God whether I have a disease or not. I didn't start running to him when I got a disease. I think there is something bothering you inside that is causing you to discuss God and your cancer. Possibly because, like many people, you think that if their was a God, he wouldn't allow this to happen to you.

You are smug in your views, and that is your right, but I wouldn't want to be smug in knowing that my life is no more important than a cockroach on the street or a fly on the wall, which is what one believes if they believe that there is no God and no meaning to our lives on Earth. For those that want to have such limited thinking, to each is their own. God has given freewill to mankind because he was created in a higher image than the other living creatures on earth and God pays close attention to how people choose to live their lives with freewill. A world that does not believe in the 10 commandments is a world with no future, which is where we are headed on Earth, but none of that matters. All that matters is who is going to heaven. God can create other planets and other creatures to dwell on those planets, anytime he chooses. You seem to have some misperception that the only reason why people pray to God is to heal their bodies and solve their problems. That's not true. Most prayers from Christians are praying to God to ask him to guide them to do the things which God intends for them or to help others in need. I think you have been watching too many Hollywood movies, where actors are praying to win the lottery etc.

As I've said before, scientists are often so wrapped up in proving a thesis and thinking they are smarter than others that they dismiss any kind of theory that is spiritual and cant be proven by them. It happens in theology and in many areas of everyday life. Here's one example:

One encouraging awakening in the scientific world is that many more astrological scientists are now strong believers in God, mainly because they realize the universe is so complex that it is very improbable that it could exist without God. This, coupled with so many scientifically documented miracles occurring on earth strengthen their belief in God, or at the very least, make them indecisive about their position on God vs nature. Many however, are too arrogant and narrow-minded to admit that God might exist. Here is a good discussion on that:

Here is a good video discussing a defense of God and religion:

"A smart atheist and a smart believer both know that they either do or don't believe. An ignorant atheist and an ignorant believer both believe that they know."

" My paraphrased take away was ‘logic without empathy yields sociopaths’. Look around. I’ll bet that this can be proven scientifically."

As I've said before, I wish you the best. I don't expect you to ever change your views but I humbly request that you watch the videos in this message I'm sending to you and that you contemplate them. It cant hurt you. Whatever you decide, happy trails and peace in your mind and heart. I will not be replying again after this for two reasons: I have too many other things to do in my life which include charity work and helping others (which is something the Christian community does a thousand fold compared to the atheist community. This is just a fact, not boastful) and I want to be able to help those other people. The second reason is that I don't believe in trying to win debates. The concept of winning debates is a childish, prideful behavior that occurs frequently in today's social media driven world. I'm not here to debate with you or anyone else. I have engaged in this conversation in an attempt to provide my views on God, which I never said you had to believe in but I do think everyone, and the world, would be better focusing on God. I also wont read any response you send to this Patrick because I don't want to get drawn into further discussion. I think your side and mine have been stated in full but if it makes you feel better to get the last word in, or say else anything disparaging about Jesus and God, that's something you have to live with but I wont be reading it.

I trust in God always.

George

Reply
Patrick-Turner

Unfortunately, your efforts to convert me to being a God Botherer is in vain because afaik, God did not make Nature. Men invented God in their imagination as a response to feeling alone, and to control other ppl.

Nobody has the slightest idea who or what a real God might be and it would be extremely arrogant if not insane to say this God has human personal characteristics.

Nature is just there, it IS, and we ARE, and that's all anyone needs to know, and we all need to behave better to ensure the welfare of others, ourselves, and future of our Planet, while we are alive, because nothing lives after death.

Maybe you could relate your preaching efforts to explaining just how bothering god will cure prostate cancer, but I've met nobody who said God cured their Pca, they all died. If Jesus was alive today, he'd be appalled how his simple way of life has been mis-interpreted.

Just get on and be good, OK.

Patrick Turner.

Reply
john205

Congratulations on your good fortune. I have been having steel cut oats with walnuts and blueberries every day for almost 10 years. Also lots of fresh fruits and vegetables, fish and almost no red meat. It lowered my cholesterol from 260 to 170 without drugs, in the first 6 months, so I was thrilled. Unfortunately, despite that, I had a diagnosis of metastatic prostate cancer 1 year ago with PSA 148. So now we have a sample size of 2 for steel cut oats. It's a good diet plan for general good health, but not with a clear relationship to prostate cancer. Diet studies would be worth doing but I don't think Quaker Oats will fund it...and neither will big pharma, NSF or NIH. Nevertheless, keep eating well.

1 like
Reply
pjoshea13
pjoshea13
in reply to john205

I like steel cut oats cooked in water (nothing added), but actually prefer the whole groats, which don't take a lot longer to cook. But I get an unpleasant sugar high with both within 30 mins.

I suppose that the fat in walnuts would slow digestion & smooth out the release of glucose, if there was enough of it. Unfortunately, the fat is 10% alpha linolenic acid - a no-no for many with PCa.

-Patrick

Reply
cashlessclay

John, I not trying to push steel cut oats as "anti-cancer". Rather, I realized that breakfast

makes or breaks the diet, and if I can get through breakfast without killing the diet - - the

rest of the day is easy in comparison. So, a small portion of oats, with lots of walnuts, little

liquids, and some raspberries allowed me to do that. Interestingly, blueberries did not work for me, although I did not do extensive test in that area.

Reply
FRTHBST

Really good discussion about diet. I was diagnosed last October; PSA 11, 4+3 Gleason 7 upped to 9 by pathologists at MD Anderson. Became vegan right after the urologist delivered the news. My thinking wasn't that a completely plant based diet would be the healthiest for everyone in all situations- for me it was a search for something I could control when faced with the massive uncertainty unleashed that afternoon. And if I couldn't control my external environment, then I would change my internal one. My PSA has remained fairly stable, 11(8/18), 8.8(11/18), 9(1/19), 15(3/19), 8.5(5/19).

I have devised what i jokingly refer to as a Penitente diet(Penitente Brotherhood being the followers of a local traditional Catholic offshoot that practice ascetic ritual involving self flagellation, etc.)

For breakfast I have a medicinally green drink;

Since my starting point was to devise a diet of foods that cancer would at least not prefer, I started with cruciferous vegetables(https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29806738)

Broccoli cooked for 3-5 minutes then soaked in cold water to stop the cooking(this time frame ups the bioavailability of beneficial sulphofuranes, etc. without damaging them)

Broccoli sprouts soaked in water with a few pinches of salt heated to 158 degrees for 10 minutes( Each sprout contains as much sulfofurane as a mature plant and A biochemist determined that this process increased the sulphofurane bio availability many times and salt helps science.gov/topicpages/f/fr...

1/4 tsp of brown mustard powder(shown to increase sulphofurane absorption by 4xhttps://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/29806738)

A slice of green cabbage

2 stalks of celery

some fresh ginger

ground flax seed(ground in small batches stored in freezer)

fresh cilantro

fresh parsley

half an orange bell pepper

Drink lots of green tea and take more than a few supplements

Everything goes into the vita mix. End up with about a quart which I pour into a mason jar and chug down(very intense experience). In the first few months made 2 quarts and drank another in the evening. This seemed like too much, cruciferous vegetables are in general goiterogenic and can lower thyroid function. My energy and thyroid numbers were down a bit.

I stay away from starches that are quickly broken down; wheat, rice etc. and opt for so called resistant starches like cassava and sweet potato. Do eat some Quinoa, again in interest of altering my diet from that before diagnosis.

Lunch might be a couple of wraps made with a cassava or coconut flour tortilla, hummus, onions, tomatoes(not too much-stay away from nightshades bc of potential for inflammation. Though cooked tomatoes are another story), greens or more sprouts.

Dinner always includes lightly cooked greens, kale, chard,broccoli rabe, whatever I have around. Over the months I have gained a few vegan cooking skills- still have a long way to go. You tube shows, like Bosh! and cookbooks "The Living Kitchen: Healing Recipes to Support your body during Cancer Healing and Recovery", "Nourish", others discovered at the library, so many out there that provide inspiration. Some recipes contain meat and I skip those. I try to stay away from processed proteins, will do the occasional Beyond Meat burger. No soy, whey or shakes. No fruits except tomatoes. No sugar of any kind. Some nuts. I try to water fast one day per week or at least stretch out the interval between dinner and breakfast. Drink mostly alkaline water(know that the kidneys maintain blood ph at near neutral no matter what one consumes, so maybe only result is stressing kidneys, but local health food store has filtered water machine that offers high ph water and I am trying to change my internal environment)

In the beginning diet was completely plant based. I exercise with walking and swimming and I lost so much weight I was worried. 6'0, 185lbs. before diagnosis down to 158 after 3 months. Asked one Oncologist as he was looking at recent blood work showing blood counts, lipids, proteins, glucose, all low, if my diet might be dangerous. He is French and he looked over his glasses and replied "No. What eez dangerous is zee American diet." Now I do eat some fish when I'm feeling depleted.

All of the oncologists consulted have recommended localized treatment as no metastases showed up on the original scans, however with a Gleason of 9 and a tumor that fills the entire left half with an extracapsular extension, some micro metastases are likely. With a stable PSA, rather than go for RP or Radiation immediately I am pursuing a metabolic approach. It seems reasonable that micro metastases might be easier to control and possibly eradicate now and then proceed to localized treatment with a better outcome. lots of assumptions here. I have read Jane Mclelland's book, "How to Starve Cancer" and noted on PubMed how much recent research is going into repurposed drugs. The Care Oncology Clinic protocol seemed worth a try. I have just begun taking their 4 drug cocktail. In 3 months the Oncologist and I will re-assess. I have found a GP who is working with me on some added treatment- IVC, Dypridamole, maybe some others.

The doctors have all advised me that I have to be comfortable with the treatment I choose. They put it this way I think because there are no guaranteed cures. All of our cancers are our own cells and they have unique constituents. For some of us, caught early RP will be enough to interrupt whatever process caused those prostate cells to entertain dreams of world domination, for others it will take something else. Keep up the hope and humor!

2 likes
Reply
GeorgeGlass
GeorgeGlass
in reply to FRTHBST

Great post frt. Very good info. Please keep providing updates. I'm doing some of the things you do but could do better. I get a little tired just reading your routine. I need to get a new girlfriend who can make all that food for me while in exercising 😙. What did you do differently been March and April to lower that PSA. Just FYI - my psa was s around 11 then i did treatment and it went up to 38 in a few months worth a 2-3 week doubling rate. Keep working your current strategy and find the right doctor for your backup plan.

George

Reply
FRTHBST
FRTHBST
in reply to GeorgeGlass

Sorry about the delay in replying. I think that the temporary increase in PSA could have been due to carrot cure experiment during that time(very sincere and well meaning people and I’m sure it worked for them. Worked after all of the chemo and other treatments they’d gone through, not for me though.)

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Myriammole
Myriammole
in reply to FRTHBST

Did you think of doing a test for circulating tumor cells? You have great results with your diet!

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Myriammole
Myriammole
in reply to FRTHBST

What was your diet before diagnosis? What did you do apart from diet ? did you have PSA tested before diagnosis (if yes when before and how high)?

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FRTHBST
FRTHBST
in reply to Myriammole

Before last August it had been years since I’d had a a GP much less an exam. My approach to medical care was to stay fairly active, not consume too much red meat or alcohol. My diet wasn’t extreme in any sense- some days I did drink 5or 6 cups of coffee. I ate some variety of meat, often with salad, definitely not focused on health though.

Before diagnosis my work in the worlds of film and video and as an auto technician kept me active, not aerobically so. I had taken up swimming the year before. That was sporadic, not dedicated. This changed after diagnosis. Now I try for 3 times a week.

In 8/18 the results of my first ever PSA came back as 11 and I was on my way to Urologist, biopsy and recommendation for either radiation or surgery(depending on the specialty of the consulting doctor-observe this with complete respect for these dedicated people.)

My idea with diet was to make as extreme a change as I could in what research said would be a positive direction. My thought was that this would at least give me some time.

The test for circulating tumor cells is a good idea. Conversation with the local MO I’ve been seeing has mostly been centered on his continuing insistence on the value of radiation. I will see him again after 3 months on the coc protocol in September for an evaluation. No certainty here, I do feel positive about my decisions so far.

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j-o-h-n

Hello MoAli...

Chocolate chip ice cream (two scoops)....

Tried kale ice cream.... and they had to scoop me up off the floor....rather get poked in the eye with a stick....

BTW where are you located, Treatment center, doctor's name(s)? All voluntary...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 06/22/2019 1:05 PM DST

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GeorgeGlass

What was your hdl throughout your life? How do you account for your hdl riding from 30-60? Cardio exercise, a specific food item, both?

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cashlessclay

Prior to diet, my hdl was 36 to 40. My total cholesterol was 229 to 270. Triglycerides were

166 to 380. June 2019 results were hdl = 62, total = 172, and trig = 52. It was not cardio nor a specific food. My best guess is that the removal of fast carbs had the most impact on the recent results. Note, I'm only concerned with "fast" carbs (high GI index) and not complex carbs.

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GeorgeGlass

Ok. Thanks. I have never been able to get mine above 39. I don't eat many fast carbs. I do eat oatmeal barley brown rice porridge with a few blueberries and nuts in the morning but i usually have a salad beforehand.

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Greatfaith

Thank you! This is very valuable information. My husband was told he has stage 4 metastasized, mets in bones but not lung and liver, two months ago. Being a personal chef (and author) I have done a lot of research about the effects of diet and prostate cancer. I am in the process of finding out as much as I can about men who have been able to help reverse prostate cancer through diet, cutting out red meat, dairy etc. I plan to eventually write a book if I can obtain enough evidence certain diets are really effective in keeping PSA levels down and halt cancer cells from growing. He's undergoing chemo right now, but is changing his diet and eating habits in hopes to stop the cancer and live and longer and healthier life. I really appreciate you sharing your diet with this great group of people who all want to help those we love!

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LearnAll

Right kind of food certainly has a role in dealing with cancer along with medical treatments. I am reading a book : "how to starve cancer:' pretty thought provoking and interesting. The author ,a physical therapist was given only 1 year by oncologists in 1999 and here she is alive and wrote this book in 2018. She had metastatic cancer.

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SeosamhM

Thanks for the tip, LearnAll...looking now....is she J. McClelland?

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rassusukumaran

George, Welcome to HealthUnlocked. Was unable to get through to your Email for some reason. If you have new mail address would appreciate a note. Am still on your diet and hoping for some positive results. Is it OK to add 2 tea spoons of ground flax seeds to seel cut oat breakfast? Why is the amount of water such a critical factor at breakfast?

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cashlessclay

Hello Rassu,

I do not use flax seeds. I believe that flax seed oil is not a good idea.

As for flax seeds themselves, my guess is it would be OK, but I see no

need, since I'm achieving my goal of "stable disease" without them.

As for water and steel cut oatmeal, liquids as water or almond milk

used to presoak, cook, or just as a complement, raise the insulin

response to the meal, which in turn promotes cancer growth.

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