High blood sugar: Well, our MO was a... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer
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High blood sugar

teamkv
teamkv

Well, our MO was a definite BIG NO on prescribing Metformin. Even after reviewing Kevin’s fasting glucose numbers and the pile of studies I had on Metformin. We were told to get his primary care physician to prescribe it. (Problem is he doesn’t have one).

Anyway have been researching and reading here about other options and of course berberine shows up. So we are trying that for now.

Found this I thought I would share.

foundationalmedicinereview....

Peace to you brothers and sisters.

Kathie

35 Replies
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Metformin is an extremely versatile tablet. Very useful and cheap as well. Its available in Bombay, India over the counter (no doctor's prescription is required) for as little as ONE US $ for 30+ tablets.

Is you husband on zytiga or xtandi? These drug can make your fasting blood sugar go way up. I am on xtandi now and it is happening to me. I am assuming my sugar will go back down after I am off xtandi.

Are you taking any blood sugar medication, Magnus1964 ??? Like metformin, for instance ??? I am on Metformin 500 mg, 4 tablets a day to keep my blood sugar down. Its the steroids like Prednisone taken along with Zytiga that send blood sugar levels up.

I am reading as a boarder line diabetic. So no I am not on any medication for high blood sugar.

teamkv
teamkv in reply to Magnus1964

Nope he is not. He had higher than the range blood sugar before any of this started.

I also get metformin from my primary care physician. He usually gives me a prescription for any drug I ask for.

teamkv
teamkv in reply to GP24

Gotta find one of those primary care docs.

Magnus1964
Magnus1964 in reply to GP24

WOW, Who is your doc, must be great to know you can get anything.

GP24
GP24 in reply to Magnus1964

So far I just asked for drugs that I think will help with my PCa and had no problem to get a prescription for these.

Currently, I take Berberine and I use cinnamon regularly because the prednisone with Zytiga began jacking up my fasting BS as well as HgbA1c...because it may interact with other drugs which could effect zytiga, I take 500 mg at night....

Fish

Kathie,

The best reason for allowing patients to use safe supplements and drugs like metformin is that it allows the patient to feel that he is somehow doing something for himself. This is important after so much control has been taken away from him by the cancer.

I hope you will take this as advice for dealing with doctors. They are trained as scientists, and if you toss at them a "pile of studies," you are almost certain to get a negative reaction.

Doctors study "levels of evidence," and none of the studies in that pile rise up to the level that any doctor would regard as anything more than suggestive of an association. In fact, he could toss back at you a similar pile suggesting no association. There has been only one study on metformin so far that rises above that level of evidence. It showed that there was no cause/effect relation for prostate cancer, metabolic syndrome, or hyperinsulemia due to ADT.

"This study detected no impact of MET addition to ADT on the risk of metabolic syndrome and no additional anti-tumor effects. Control of hyperinsulinemia related to diabetes by MET does not necessarily imply MET has a similar action on hyperinsulinemia due to ADT"

ascopubs.org/doi/10.1200/JC...

It might be a good approach to start by acknowledging the truth of what the doctor is saying, and tell him that you are feeling desperate and would like to try it anyway even though you know intellectually that it probably will not do anything.

cujoe
cujoe in reply to Tall_Allen

Good Grief!

NPfisherman
NPfisherman in reply to cujoe

The horror...Does this guy endorse broccoli sprouts? Really?

Don Pescado

cujoe
cujoe in reply to NPfisherman

I guess I should have saved a link to the post??

NPfisherman
NPfisherman in reply to cujoe

Should have posted it on his blog...

Don Pescado

One last thing...my MO nor my PCP would Rx the metformin...the K arm for Stampede trial is involved with metformin and I am not sure when to expect the preliminary data...Berberine may have other advantages...:

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

spandidos-publications.com/...

oncotarget.com/index.php?jo...

Have a great weekend....

Fish

teamkv
teamkv in reply to NPfisherman

Started it today. And thank you. For now after reading copious PubMed studies we felt Berberine is the way to go. Getting a glucose monitor as well. The body is wholistic, if all systems are working optimally the whole body benefits.

cujoe
cujoe in reply to teamkv

Kathie, Even though I am not currently on any treatments, I am with NP and take berberine and use the spice cinnamon generously in smoothies, morning cereals, and protein drink mixes. As for berberine, this statement is from the Examine.com website:

"Berberine is one of the few supplements in the Examine.com database with human evidence that establishes it to be as effective as pharmaceuticals." (emphasis added.)

examine.com/supplements/ber...

ANd here is a meta-study of berberine's safety and effectiveness:

Meta-analysis of the effect and safety of berberine in the treatment of type 2 diabetes mellitus, hyperlipemia and hypertension

sci-hub.tw/https://doi.org/...

There is conflicting evidence that Milk Thistle (Silymarin) may assist in the uptake of berberine while also helping with liver function. Research for yourself and draw your own conclusions about any benefits of that combination.

As NP says above, it is also possible that berberine has benefits other than those provided by metformin. In fact, I have yet to run across a study that showed berberine to be inferior to metformin. Be Well - cujoe

PS I seem to remember Patrick posting recently that for PCa, it was more effective to take metformin when blood sugar levels were low (between meals?) rather than the standard recommendation to take with or immediately before meals. No idea if this would also apply to berberine, but since they both work on similar metabolic functions (via AMPK activation), it would seem to work there as well. Patrick?

NPfisherman
NPfisherman in reply to cujoe

Man, cujoe....Call me Fish or by my nom de guerre-- Don Pescado....LOL... I take Berberine at night for 2 reasons-one being drug to drug interactions with ranitidine and zytiga , but also because it is hours after I eat and so, it is on an empty stomach... Now, where do you order the broccoli sprouts seed again..? Using broccomax in the meantime... How long till they sprout and you can eat them? Also, Nalakrats was advising taking with pickled cabbage--like Kimchi I guess...do you know why?

Thanks in advance, amigo...

Fish or Don Pescado depending on my split personality...

teamkv
teamkv in reply to NPfisherman

I’ve turned into a broccoli sprout farmer too. Put 2 1/2 T in a large mouth mason jar with a strainable lid. It takes about 3 days for them to be ready. I got my supplies on Amazon. Water every day and then drain.

teamkv
teamkv in reply to teamkv

Skylety 4 Pack Stainless Steel Sprouting Jar Lid with 2 Pack Stainless Steel Sprouting Stands for Wide Mouth Mason Jars Canning Jars to Make Sprout (White) amazon.com/dp/B07G2129X6/re...

NPfisherman
NPfisherman in reply to teamkv

Thanks...

Fish

cujoe
cujoe in reply to NPfisherman

How about Fisherman Don? Covers both bases.

Well, the best on-line source for broccoli seeds and How-To info used to be The Sprout House (sprouthouse.com/), but they seem to have removed most of the self-help/how-to and put it into free DVDs you can add to any order. Their seed prices are very competitive for NonGMO/organic seeds and include shipping. Several time a year they run specials and they offer a large variety of other sprout seed mixes. (I refuse to buy anything on Amazon, but I'm sure there are many offerings there.) Some supplement houses also carry broccoli sprouting seeds, but not always the non-GMO/organic varieties I prefer. There are loads of how-to videos on Youtube.

You can buy a sprouter, but it is simple to make them out of mason jars. All you need is a piece of synthetic window screen for the top and a mason jar top retainer ring. (I've made several no-rust retainer rings from plastic nut-butter tops by cutting out the top portions.) Most sprouting seed packages have instructions on the bag - and they tend to differ somewhat in soaking time. I soak anywhere from about 6 to 12 hours and have not been able to tell any difference in time to sprout, quality, or germination rates. Rinse after the soak and then 2 to 3 times a day for the first day and twice a day thereafter. I used to set jars on an angle to continue to drain out after rinsing, but now I just shake out the excess H20 and shake the seeds away from the screen and lie the jar on its side. I do use Brita filtered tap water and I let it sit overnight before using to let the chlorine gas off. (I also do that with my drinking water.) I'm using one pint jars with 3 small teaspoons of seeds, but if you are sprouting for two or more people, you might want to use quart jars with +/- 2 tablespoons of sprouts.

The research linked below (and referenced in the NutrionFacts video also linked), indicates that the sulforaphane production of sprouts peaks at about 48 hours. While it is not very clear in the research, I have to assume that the clock on that would start after the seeds begin to sprout. Otherwise, at 48 hours, you would be eating mostly seeds. That means I start eating the sprouts at about 2 1/2 to 3 days out (I've been known to eat them earlier) and usually finish a jar off in two days. (And that's just me eating them by myself.) I usually have at least two jars going all the time and wash and reload as soon as one is finished off.

Biggest Nutrition Bang for your Buck

nutritionfacts.org/video/bi...

Broccoli: Sprouts vs. Supplements

nutritionfacts.org/video/br...

Physiological and Biochemical Metabolism of Germinating Broccoli Seeds and Sprouts

sci-hub.tw/10.1021/jf203599v

And here are a several Dr. Greger bonus videos on broccoli and health/cancer. The first one explains why you should use some mustard powder when you eat it cooked:

Second Strategy to Cooking Broccoli

nutritionfacts.org/video/se...

Raw Broccoli & Bladder Cancer Survival

nutritionfacts.org/video/ra...

DNA Protection from Broccoli

nutritionfacts.org/video/dn...

Broccoli vs. Breast Cancer Stem Cells

nutritionfacts.org/video/br...

Sulforaphane: From Broccoli to Breast

nutritionfacts.org/video/su...

I rarely ever need to refrigerate or freeze them, since I never have any "left overs", but apparently both methods will preserve most, if not all, of the sulphophane content. I am now in the habit of adding them to every salad, sandwich, and smoothie I make. The taste is very mild, so the options for using them is endless. In general, I avoid using them in cooked dishes, as I am concerned that the heat might reduce their benefits, but occasionally have added them to cooked entrees as a garnish.

As I have said in some earlier posts, you may (likley WILL) produce some potent "Room-Clearing" gas, until your digestive track gets used to your new addition to its flora. I don't remember how long it took me to no longer have any issues, but I seem to remember it was quite a while. So, be forewarned that you may need to be very careful about trying to "slip one out" in mixed company. Best to make sure there is a dog in the room first - to direct the blame toward; i.e., "ROVER!!, how could you??".

Good Luck and Happy Sprouting. Feel free to message me with any questions. Eat Well to Be Well - cujoe

NPfisherman
NPfisherman in reply to cujoe

After the sprouts start, maybe just call me Rover...actually, Don Pescado is like Don Fish...

Cujoe,

Thank you so much for the information... Will get ordering...after all, TA just made a post on curcumin which is one I take, so I added at the end of my response to him....Guess maybe I should just stick to broccoli sprouts....we'll see how he takes that....LOL...There is a double blind study on curcumin now... maybe he believes nothing good for this disease comes from mother nature...except sprouts...

All the best,

Fish

cujoe
cujoe in reply to NPfisherman

While I don't speak much Spanish, I'm a bit red-faced that I didn't pick that up.

Well, I've been taking curcumin (C3 formulation) for about 10 years. I started it for my CLL based initially on research I did for my late bro' when he was diagnosed with pancreatic cancer. (His wife never would allow him to try it?!)

There is a Dr. Aggarwal at MD Anderson who way back 10 years ago did a very small curcumin supplement study with pancreatic cancer patients with results in most that were better than for chemo - but don't tell TA, since it was not double-blinded, so not real research. (I'm pretty sure the patients that did better on curcumin, didn't much care about that.)

Here is an interview with Dr. Aggarwal where he talks about inflammation as a driver of cancer. (Curcumin is WELL documented as a powerful ant-inflammatory agent - granted one that needs help with absorption; i.e., combine with bioperine and since it is fat-soluble, always take with some fat.)

Pioneering Biochemist Bharat B. Aggarwal, PhD, of the M.D. Anderson Cancer Center, on Discovering Novel and Effective Cancer Treatments

naturalmedicinejournal.com/...

Be well - cujoe

HOPEFULSPOUSE
HOPEFULSPOUSE in reply to cujoe

Great article - thanks for the link!

teamkv
teamkv in reply to cujoe

Berberine is also an anti inflammatory.

NPfisherman
NPfisherman in reply to cujoe

Great article, cujoe... well, I read through the post your amigo put out about curcumin and there was nothing that showed curcumin is not effective....just that it effects PSA values...I pointed out a double blind study going on now, but he doesn't buy it...says it is based off PSA and curcumin effects PSA and only radiographic free progression or regression counts...wonder how long that study might take?? He even backpedaled on broccoli sprouts...saying that study was based on PSA...I do declare....what will it take to get that boy hooked on a little voodoo?? ROFL....

Take care and thanks for replying, amigo...

Don Fish

cujoe
cujoe in reply to NPfisherman

Heck, there are all sorts of things that affect PSA. So what? We all know by now that PSA is an imperfect indicator for PCa, so just because somthing makes PSA go up or down does not always indicate a positive or negative cancer outcome. Cherry picking your rationale is as deceptive as doing so with data. Be Well - cujoe

teamkv
teamkv in reply to cujoe

Hmmm good to know and makes sense. With taking other stuff on an empty stomach, he doesn’t have any time left that his stomach is empty!!

HOPEFULSPOUSE
HOPEFULSPOUSE in reply to teamkv

I would suggest monitoring to see if it does have an impact as there can be absorption issues. My husband tried it for a couple of months at the suggestion of his ND but the test results didn't show any different so he went back to metformin.

teamkv
teamkv in reply to HOPEFULSPOUSE

That’s a great idea. Could also test to see if it works better on an empty stomach too

youtube.com/watch?v=rhc6-In...

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 04/27/2019 8:40 PM DST

Found dosage info on the examine link,

Right after you eat.

Before my prostatectomy I had a blood sugar level of 1.33g/L, after around six months of Firmagon my blood pressure had risen alarmingly to over 200/150 and I had a blood sugar level of 1.9 g/L.

I started Irbesartan at 300mg per day and after a couple of months my blood sugar was down to 1.66g/L, my blood pressure was still alarmingly high at around 180/150 so I added Amlodipine at 10mg and Metformin at 2 x 500mg per day.

My blood pressure is now down to 140/95 and my blood sugar is at 1,33g/L so a cocktail of Irbesartan, Amlodipine and Metformin is working for me.

If the Irbesartan and Metformin are making life hard for any residual prostate cancer cells all the better, I am anticipating coming off the Firmagon in September when we will see what will happen.

I have a very receptive médicin traitant, French for personal doctor, and we have a good dialogue on the stuff I am taking in addition to the main meal of Firmagon!

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