Belated Introduction and Bio - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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Belated Introduction and Bio

bigbassman profile image
17 Replies

Hello All:

I'm 67, Dx in 2-17 with stage 4 PCa, 1 bone met. In 6-16, PSA was at 10, Ratio of free T to total was 0.12, so my urologist recommended TRUS biopsy. Friends had told me it had been painful. so I researched heavily. Also, my urologist was associated with the local hospital, not a recognized world-class PCa centre. The TRUS 65% accuracy and a PCa network contact's 3 erroneous TRUSes before stage 3 Dx convinced me to get an MRI-TRUS fusion biopsy. No response from anyone after several attempts at the local PCa centre at 2 hospitals to my requests for intake/consultation, or referrals from family docs, and no one would requisition an MRI so I paid for one in Buffalo in 9-17 The attending radiologist felt with 95% confidence I had adenocarcinoma, large PCa tumour. I used the names of former PCa patients and some well-known PCa specialists in a walk-in doc referral to connect with a radiation oncologist in 9-16 at a local hospital clinic considered one of the 5 best on the planet. After viewing the Buffalo MRI report, the radonc ordered his own MRI, which confirmed the first MRI result. They agreed to use their MRI data to do a targeted TRUS biopsy, which seems to have accuracy similar to a formal MRI fusion TRUS biopsy. PSA had reached a max of 18 by then. Pathology report indicated Gleason 8 (4+4) in 8 of 10 cores, 4+3 in one core. Initial Dx of stage 2c PCa in 11-16 was upgraded in 2-17 to stage 4 after CT and bone scans showed one bone area highly suspicious for PCa, and several other areas of concern.

Radonc ordered Lupron injection, and I was told further treatment was contingent upon disease progress. (a period of 3-6-12 months or more before any further Tx) The most Tx I could expect would be possible pelvic EBRT and SBRT on the bone met. No direct Tx to the prostate, including no Brachytherapy, and no advanced scanning. After lengthy delays between clinic visits with radonc assistants, I felt I was being offered very little information or inclusion in my own Tx process, so, after consulting with guys in the informal PCa survivor network I had found, I spoke with Dattoli Cancer Centre in Florida in 3-17, where several of these men had received Tx resulting in 8-10 years of ongoing cancer-free living. I booked a Tx program with them for 6-17, the earliest they had, thinking I could cancel if I found promising Tx locally. In the meantime, I sought consultation/second opinion from a radonc at another acclaimed hospital who had been involved in developing new PCa Tx guidelines, focussing on the benefits of early multi-modal more aggressive intervention in PCa. After finagling a consultation with him, again facilitated by the same walk-in doc, I was told I would be continuing on Lupron, I might receive EBRT on the pelvis, SBRT on the bone met, but would not receive BrachyTx. I was also told BrachyTx and possibly other radioTx was investigational at this point. It was clear to me that, despite progressive Tx innovation recommendations in the journals, I could expect limited Tx options in my own case, and worse, two radoncs offered Tx options which, in many respects, seemed at odds with each other.

Thinking I might benefit from advanced scanning, such as PSMA PET scans, I found that the limited number of PET scanners in my area are reserved for research only, and finding no clinical trials here for PET, I eventually found A PET scanning service owned by a doc within a reasonable travelling distance. After 4-5 phone calls and messages to the contact number, I'd had no response. No response after email and phone contact attempts by well-connected guys in my PCa group, and not even after contact attempts by a radonc who knows the doc who owns the PET scanner. Unbelievable, given I was a paying customer.

Without delay, I confirmed the Dattoli program, which offers treatment with curative intent, something I could not expect at home. It cost me in the high five figures to do that, but my existing options offered little hope, since the Tx offered by Dattoli is not available to me here, at any cost.

I'll summarize my contact with Dattoli by saying that I received 37 radiation treatments with their 4D DART system, (10 follow up treatments due in 1-18 for pelvic lymph nodes only) then BrachyTx by Dr Dattoli, who has 25 years experience focusing on PCa. I received a plan with triple blockade ADT ( trelstar LHRH injections, Casodex and Avodart ) Also off-label meds for anti-tumor support, anti-cancer dietary information and many other supportive lifestyle recommendations.

No reputable PCa treatment centre can or should promise a cure, but at the least treatment with curative intent offers something beyond vague prognoses with wait-and-see minimal intervention for advanced PCa. Every case is essentially unique, although some generalizable concepts can apply to groups of patient experiences. As always, I'm hoping for the best, prepared for the worst, and I am not going to worry about my situation until I have something to worry about. In my case, I felt the the Tx being offered locally offered little hope, limited and conflicting information, and obstructive/difficult access to diagnostic and treatment resources, despite the inclusive and rich public face presented by many treatment centres. Do your research, exploit whatever resources you need to connect with the most promising treatment options, and refer to forums such as this one for information, which can be a very important and relevant addition to your war chest.

Best luck on your own journey with this lousy disease. There are many stories of success and positivity to counterbalance the negatives we so often encounter. I refuse to give in to defeat and negativity. And I hate that my magic wand and crystal ball are still in the shop.

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17 Replies
Billash profile image
Billash

You used the abbreviation TX several times, what is this referring to ?

bigbassman profile image
bigbassman in reply to Billash

It's common to see abbreviations such as Tx, Dx etc to mean "treatment" and "diagnosis." ie, "Radonc" is radiation oncologist. You can usually catch the drift as you read through one or more posts, especially if one person's abbreviations are different than another's. I use abbreviations because my mind works much faster than I can write or speak, and I don't want to lose my train of thought. Admittedly, I've made up abbns which may not be standard.

Dan59 profile image
Dan59 in reply to Billash

Dx= diagnosis,tx=treatment,MO=Medical Oncologist,RO=Radiation Oncologist,TTP=Time to progression NGI=Never Give in. ADT=Androgen Deprivation therapy,TIP=Testosterone inhibiting pharmacueticals

Dan59 profile image
Dan59

It is great you sought such aggressive treatment, Dattolli is a known center of excellence. Did your insurance not cover this treatment? I hope you are done with this disease.

bigbassman profile image
bigbassman in reply to Dan59

I'm not from the US, so no insurance coverage. I suspect my government health insurance will just use the "standard of care" to deny me any other advanced care, or compensation for having to go out of its jurisdiction. Well organized non-profit groups have tried for decades to get the government to even subsidize more cancer meds, and we can't even get old technology scans easily, let alone newer advanced scanning unless it's part of a small number of research and clinical trials.

BigRich profile image
BigRich

Also off-label meds for anti-tumor support, What off-label meds did you use?

Rich

bigbassman profile image
bigbassman in reply to BigRich

Metformin. Also advised to take 5000 units of vitamin D3 daily.

BigRich profile image
BigRich in reply to bigbassman

Thank you for the reply.

Rich

Roland632017 profile image
Roland632017

Hi bigbassman

I congratulate you being so thorough on your investigation and findings. You should explore more on cancer basics. hysir highlighted me on inflammation and immunology on verywell.com website. I also had opposing views on cancer basics regarding treatable/cure for cancer with Dan59 and AlanMeyer. Anyway on immune system if the white blood cell can kill a foreign invasion/cancer cell it does have the memory effect and proporgate a chain event hence the immunology, By not being blunt any number of factors can cause a reversal cure, So I will not standby and let some Urologist and oncologist says our cancer is incurable and treatable. What do you think.

As for me I am still surviving with Advanced PCa Stage 4 T4 N2-3 M2-3. I am on this forum since 1 Dec 2017. Be in touch.

Don1157 profile image
Don1157

I have sought all my treatment locally, Kansas City, and even though it is not a big name center, I trust my Docs implicitly and they have offered me the best treatment available for my situation. Had a PET scan in Decatur, Illinois, not Mayo, the other choice, I got the best service and the exact scan that I needed and I did not have to wait months for Mayo. My Dr’s are all PC specialists and knew what they were doing, and had done research through a University Medical Center. Getting local treatment is good, it’s having no insurance and no money is what leads to problems.

JimVanHorn profile image
JimVanHorn in reply to Don1157

Hi Don, I had no insurance in 2004 and was told I needed 42 radiations for PCa. I priced it at 2 hospitals at $130,000.00. Then I found a urologist here in Orlando who told me they would charge me what Medicare pays them, $30,000.00! I still had to borrow the money, but what a difference. It pays to check around.

drsridhar53 profile image
drsridhar53 in reply to JimVanHorn

Just a piece of Info which may interest American Friends who have been advised 40 Radiation Treatment for Pca. I had it here in India last year for the equivalent of about $ 4000. They use the same Machines used in the US. It is worth a shot. I can give contacts for those interested.

podsart profile image
podsart

I am considering Dr Datolli-- sounds like he doesnt take any insurance--is that true?

What was the cost of seeing Dr Datolli--do you get to see him or an associate?

How long had to wait for appointment?

Sorry for all the questions

yamobedeh profile image
yamobedeh in reply to podsart

Dattoli takes insurance. Check with them about details. My 5-figure reference was due to foreign exchange rates and having to find accommodation there. They have a no charge phone consultation with Dr. Dattoli or his associates, could be an hour more or less. They called me within 24 hours for the consult. I spoke with Dr. Kaminski. Have your questions ready and read up on the clinic beforehand. I was offered an appointment to start the treatment process in around 3 months. I didn't ask for it to be moved up because I wanted to exhaust my options locally. Hope this helps.

JimVanHorn profile image
JimVanHorn

Thank you for all your information. I have had three biopsies and the second and third I was put in twilight sleep with little pain. I have stage 4 metastatic PCa since 2011 and had 30 radiations, Lupron every 3 months, and Xgeva in the 2nd and 3rd year for bone density problems. My PSA has been 0.00 for 6 years now. My Gleason was 4+3=7. I have little side effects from Lupron now except for no testosterone. I am 72 years old now and have to watch my B12 and iron (ferrin) levels. I happen to have heart, diabetes, and liver diseases, so I really do not think of PCa as something that is going to kill me. PCa is a slow growing disease and many men have had it for years,but they did not have Lupron! I have a great life and feel good most of the time. Hope you are the same.

George71 profile image
George71 in reply to JimVanHorn

Jim,

You said "but they did not have lupron" -- did you mean that it was a good thing that they did not have Lupron -- as the reason others lived years?

JimVanHorn profile image
JimVanHorn in reply to George71

Hello again, I meant that although Lupron was on the market, it was only approved for women as a luteinizing hormone to help women who could not bear children. In women the drug tells the pituitary gland to send a hormone to release mature eggs and then have artificial insemination. It was approved in the 1990's for men when it was found to inhibit the formation of androgens in men. That is what I meant that some men did not have Lupron in the past.

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