vitamin K

[joeoconnell]

i am taking 81mg dose of aspirin as a blood thinner to prevent stroke, i have a pace maker Afib. was on some fancy blood thinner till i bled internally. what about vitamin K vrs Aspirin is that a no no ?

[pjoshea13]

Joe,

There are two phases of clot formation: clumping of platelets & fibrin accumulation.

Low-dose aspirin (81 mg) is sufficient to inhibit platelet aggregation.

Nattokinase would help clear any fibrin build-up.

Vitamin K wouldn't help with either.

Aspirin - even low-dose - has its risks when used chronically. Nattokinase does not have the same risk. However, you need to monitor D-dimer to know if you are on an adequate nattokinase dose. If you are, you don't need the aspirin IMO. Again, I'm not a doctor, etc.

-Patrick

[joeoconnell in reply to pjoshea13]

thanks Patrick

[Neal-Snyder in reply to pjoshea13]

Patrick,

YOU'RE NOT?! Are you kidding? You mean you're not a doctor anymore, because you're retired? Or that you're not OUR doctor? Or that you're a biologist, maybe? Please allow me to understand what has prepared you to read & comprehend tons of medical research findings. Thank you very much for all the valuable information you give us, & for replying to my astonished questions in this post.

Neal

[pjoshea13 in reply to Neal-Snyder]

Neal,

Just a harmless drudge with too much time, trying to make sense of it all, - to gain more time.

Researchers want their papers to be understood, & terminology isn't that much of a hurdle.

-Patrick

[Neal-Snyder in reply to pjoshea13]

Patrick,

I'm really amazed. Somehow I thought I read that you were an MD, back when I first began seeing your posts. When I saw the frequency of your posts, I decided you had to be a retired MD. I guess I must have just assumed you were an MD, based on your apparent comfort with medical lingo & concepts. To my eyes, medical researchers want their papers to be understood by others in the field of medicine, & the terminology is a thicket.

So what is your background? My mind would be a bit less boggled if you were a scientist. BTW, you're not just doing no harm; you're providing many men with a great service. Thank you, indeed.

Neal

[Dan59 in reply to Neal-Snyder]

Patrick is certainly an amazing researcher for us, Thank You Patrick!

[pjoshea13 in reply to Neal-Snyder]

Neal,

I began life training to be an actuary (what did I know?), but the insurance company that took me on asked me to consider joining a new systems department. There were no 3rd generation computers in the country yet - so no experienced programmers. The only employees who could pass the IBM aptitude test were in the actuarial department.

So I was paid peanuts as an actuarial student while working in a field that was otherwise very well paid. The decision point was after meeting my wife (50th anniversary today). & I moved to a company that built systems & ran them wherever they could buy time cheaply. Every company with the new computers had excess capacity in those early days.

& so I became a systems generalist, which was wonderful training for entering strange new worlds, getting quickly up to speed with the jargon, & designing systems that were not mere copies of what they already had.

I also had another hat. The company did not make money from building systems, but from running them. New systems always seemed to waste computer resources - for which we were charged. So I had to quickly revamp programs others had written so that we could recover our investment & make a profit.

Basically, everything I was doing was preparation for the research I needed to do after I immediately failed RP & salvage radiation.

Ultimately, one cannot be a generalist, & I was forced to specialize in benefits systems. & Ironically, I retired as partner in an actuarial consulting company at 52. Full circle.

-Patrick

[Neal-Snyder in reply to pjoshea13]

Hi Patrick,

Fascinating! Thanks very much for responding. (I never knew you responded, & was disappointed. Probably my bad because I get so much email that I miss ones I want to see.) I just stumbled into your reply because I still had this thread open.

It's great that you went to work on extending your life, & that you share what you find so the rest of us can benefit. Congrats on the early retirement, & it's wonderful that your career was such great prep for what you're doing now.

I was able to get my mind around the medical science involved in determining what injuries to children are inflicted & which are accidental, including whether the injury is consistent with the explanation. I needed to do that in order to advise my clients when we had a case, & to present expert witnesses (usually pediatricians, or burn docs) at trial. (Interestingly, the doctors who are able & willing to do this are often experts in this.) I also got a grip on other medical topics in my field.

Otherwise, I find medical writing difficult to follow, in no small part because of the frequent terms that are new to me. I'm trying to some extent, but it's not in my wheelhouse as much as the medical side of the child abuse & neglect field. Do you use a medical dictionary? I did at work, but don't have 1 now.

Often, I'm clear on what conclusions to draw, as far as what to consume & what supplements & vitamins to buy, from your posts. Other times, I find it hard & wonder if you could make that clearer for dummies, or if the answer just isn't clear to anyone.

Thanks again!

Neal

[JimVanHorn]

Aspirin does not effect blood clotting time with or without Vitamin K. Vitamin K effects the clotting time of Warfarin or Coumadin, not aspirin. Aspirin does effect the ability of your blood platelet cells to form a blood clot so you may bleed more than usual if you are cut or get a bug bite.

[joeoconnell in reply to JimVanHorn]

thanks Jim