Hi,
I am wondering if anyone here is familiar with nattokinase (natto). In addition to PCa, I have Atrial Fibrillation and I have recently been prescribed Warfarin, a blood thinner. Problem is that I am convinced that the medicine is making me very lightheaded and a couple of times I've nearly passed out. Someone recommended natto and a quick research showed that its been used as a blood thinner for a long time in the Far East.
Joe
I have used Nattokinase for fifteen years both before and after diagnosis with stage IV CRPC. It keeps clots from forming in your blood and lungs so accomplishes the purpose of a blood thinner. It is one of several supplements I take to reduce inflamation, which is very important in stemming the spread of cancer.
I have not experienced any side effects taking 100mg of nattokinase twice a day, before breakfast and before bedtime. It should be taken apart from meals. I would not hesitate to use nattokinase instead of a prescription blood thinner, which I guess I have.
Hi Joe,
I found myself on Warfarin about 5 years ago. 2 veins in left leg blocked from the knee two-thirds down.
My doctor said that I should be on Warfarin for 6 months. 3 months + an extra 3 months because of the cancer. I was against this, since I take vitamin K2, not only for bone & artery health, but also because it has anti-PCa properties.
He said that if my leg was clear in 3 months, he would agree.
An ultrasound after 3 months showed one vein clear - but not the other. I had already told him of my intention to use nattokinase. Surprisingly, he agreed to my stopping the Warfarin. He said that the other vein might never clear anyway. And that I should listen to my body if the nattokinase wasn't working.
I did listen, & increased the dose when the leg started to ache.
But here is how nattokinase can be used with confidence. The D-dimer blood test indicates whether there is an active clot. Nattokinase will raise D-dimer levels as the fibrin of the clot is degraded, but levels will fall as the clot disappears. You want D-dimer to be as close to zero as the test measures. And you will need a maintenance dose that achieves that.
Nattokinase will also lower fibrinogen. It needs to be low-normal. Inflammation can increase levels, which makes clots more likely.
I use this:
swansonvitamins.com/nutrico...
Don't guess at the proper dose - use the blood tests & adjust accordingly.
& when you are off Warfarin, you will need to take K2 to reverse the arterial damage:
lifeextension.com/Vitamins-...
My wife had A-Fib ten years ago. Was in the ER because the heart was racing for hours. Was told she would need to be on meds forever. The drug stopped working & she was told to double the dose. That wasn't very successful. She was given a device that she wore in bed one night. It recorded periods of dangerously high heart rate.
I found a paper (below) where it was suggested that Taurine + Arginine would fix many such problems. 2,000 mg Taurine + 1,000 mg Arginine 3 times daily worked quickly (within a week). She still takes a morning dose (always on an empty stomach). Your case may be different, of course.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/167...
None of this should be construed as medical advice, of course.
-Patrick
Winni..., Patrick and Nalakrats, Thanks so much for the quick and informative response. My first read-through tells me that I should stop the Warfarin and start using Natto instead. Some years back, I was taking one cap for general health purposes but I stopped that when I first found out that I had PCa about 10 years ago. In the next few days I plan on getting deeper into the source of information provided by all of you although some of it is deep stuff and over my head.
Malakrats, is there any concern with bleeding and inability to clot while supplementing with those mega doses? Is there a minimum level of fibrin one must maintain?
Joe
I have been on warfarin 8 plus years. I have never felt lite headed or dizzy on the medication. Check with your pharmacist on its side effects. If you have a blood pressure machine check your blood pressure When you feel light headed. You could have hypoglycemia. Of course talk to your doctor about this.
Dennis
Dennis, good call.
I do have a BP machine and I have checked the vitals but I didn't experience any significant changes. My BP and heart rate are naturally on the low side usually 115-120 over 55-60 and a heart rate around 60. Would a low hypoglycemic affect blood pressure rates? Printed side affects of warfarin include dizziness and lite headed. I suppose that it wouldn't hurt to check the blood glucose at those times, I have yo find out how to do that, thanks,
Joe.
Nalakrats,
I am in awe of you. To independently arrive at the taurine/arginine hypothesis.
The sad thing is that many are on a lifetime prescription because of a trivial amino acid imbalance. & the remedy has no side effects & little cost.
I'm glad you mentioned it, because my wife is no longer a solitary anecdotal case.
-Patrick
Nalakrats
I’m very interested in the protocol you developed on your own.
I’m 72, a Gleason 6, on Active Surveillance, so far. I also have both BPH and ED. I do not have your training and expertise with dietary issues.
Until recently, I took Citrulline every day and then on weekends, when I’m more sexually active, I took a 500 mg Arginine booster. This enabled me to take less Cialis. Now that I have cut out the Arginine, I need to take 20 mg of Cialis.
The reason I stopped Arginine and Citrulline is that there’s a fairly new therapy that is proving effective against prostate cancer. It’s becoming more accepted and better established – it’s called Arginine Deprivation Therapy.
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...
nature.com/cddis/journal/v5...
As I understand it, arginine does not have the same effect on all forms of cancer – some it seems to slow down, based on preliminary studies – but so far, arginine deprivation appears to slow the growth of prostate cancer. So is the corollary true – does taking arginine as a supplement fuel the growth of prostate cancer cells?
I would appreciate any thoughts you may have on this.
Steve
Your life's work is amazing. I found you, or this site, while searching for enough data on nattokinase to convince the picu Dr.'s to switch my 18 year old child from Lovenox to nattokinase to eat up a blood clot found in his arm (after a nursing error with IV manual pumping of fluids). He has a rare mitochondrial disease and his blood pressures began to rise after and during administration of the lovenox. I'm from/in nyc as well. And when you mentioned "food science " did you mean, of Vermont?
Hello, I'm so sorry for the delay. I am not used to using these forums and it got lost in the mix. My children have Mitochondrial Disease G8363A. He had 2 clots. one in his arm and another in his IJV (internal jugular vein) It was not called deep vein thrombosis. He had an infection sepsis set in and a procedure done could have caused at least the one in his arm. I stopped the Lovenox and now his blood pressures are way way better. It was an injection form into his leg which caused a hematoma and required surgery to remove fluid. Every injection there was a knot in that spot for days. My apologies, i thought when you mentioned food science i thought it was the manufacturer of DMG (Dimethylglycine), a nutrient I give to my children. He was on Lovenox for a few weeks and I couldn't take it any more. They had me sign an end of life type form giving them permission to not give the lovenox and stating it may kill him by not giving it.
I gave them the japanese study that said Nattokinase had both Anticoagulation properties and anti thrombosis properties but they said because it's not enough trials and stuff to prove the supplement they didn't want to give him it under their care as a replacement for the Lovenox. I told them that Serrapaptase was similar in some ways but they ignored it and allowed me to start using that but had their ethics department and legal department not let me give nattokinase.
A few weeks after starting serrapaptase the clot in the arm was resolved. (no they don't attribute it to serrapaptase ) But the clot in his IJV was still there but NOT larger. He suffered for 2 weeks on it, it caused (they won't admit it so this is my conjecture) peritoneal membrane bleeding, enlarged liver, the hematoma and wild blood pressures that were not controllable with the adding of multiple blood pressure medications. Today nephrology announced they are cutting another blood pressure med off. The good blood pressures all started AFTER STOPPING Lovenox. This was a a big case where Hematology, the picu team, legal department, nephrology, ID (infection disease) Ethics department and legal department were all involved. I even offered them ANAMU (guinea hen weed. Leaf only)
They wanted it to last for a month or 2.
My son and daughter has been on Nattokinase only 2000 fu for years. My son la la, the one in the hospital, been off and on it as his kidney disease caused him to need dialysis and they would give a tiny bit of heparin in the line and i didn't know if it would have any adverse effects. But after the studies and even one looking at the heparin and natto rections i see no need to withold the Natto. I thank you for sharing your work. I feel it's ok to increase the nattokinase to at least 2 capsules (4,000 fu). My daughter is 20. Both my children that has their disease activated are trached and gtube dependant. My younger 2, Lazarus and Luke, (9yr 7yr) have not received vaccines so they are not showing any signs of the disease. (Hannah Poling court case determined the vaccines trigger the early onset of the pre existing mitochondrial disease of that little girl.)
Of course i'll run it by the doctors (the increase) but they don't like to do their studying jobs when you are doing something that they don't agree with.
Many blessings to you. Any other knowledge and/or suggestions are welcome. Today they are doing another check of the size of the clot as we are near discharge.
The other day during rounds they asked his mom if we started the Nattokinase. My wife said NOPE. You told us we can't so we will start at home. I don't know why they asked but if we did we wouldn't tell them. (and they have strict instructions NOT TO START ANY MEDICATIONS WITHOUT PASSING THEM BY US) They are still administering the serrapeptase.
Blessing!
(I will let you know the results!! )
My sincerest apology. I was working on a few hours of sleep.
My son (18yr) is no longer on Lovenox. I found this thread while looking for more information on nattokinase. My son does not have prostate cancer.
He has a blood clot in his IJV (internal jugular vein. He is taking 120,000 spu of serra. We reported to the doctors we will be doing 4,000 FU of Natto when we get home. (the hospital refused to use natto) He weighs 32kg so hematology says no other treatment option is available for him because of his weight and kidney disease. (pharmaceuticals)
Thanks for your thoughts and ideas.
Yes. Thank you for any help you can give. He just got another check of the clot yesterday. Results are that it has not gotten bigger. It's still the same they said. I'm getting a print out of the report shortly.
Lovenox
Starting Adt
bleeding after hyperbaric oxygen therapy
New news I didn’t know yesterday- Cancer causes blood clots
