Advanced Prostate Cancer
4,305 members4,140 posts



I am wondering if anyone here is familiar with nattokinase (natto). In addition to PCa, I have Atrial Fibrillation and I have recently been prescribed Warfarin, a blood thinner. Problem is that I am convinced that the medicine is making me very lightheaded and a couple of times I've nearly passed out. Someone recommended natto and a quick research showed that its been used as a blood thinner for a long time in the Far East.


12 Replies

I have used Nattokinase for fifteen years both before and after diagnosis with stage IV CRPC. It keeps clots from forming in your blood and lungs so accomplishes the purpose of a blood thinner. It is one of several supplements I take to reduce inflamation, which is very important in stemming the spread of cancer.

I have not experienced any side effects taking 100mg of nattokinase twice a day, before breakfast and before bedtime. It should be taken apart from meals. I would not hesitate to use nattokinase instead of a prescription blood thinner, which I guess I have.


Hi Joe,

I found myself on Warfarin about 5 years ago. 2 veins in left leg blocked from the knee two-thirds down.

My doctor said that I should be on Warfarin for 6 months. 3 months + an extra 3 months because of the cancer. I was against this, since I take vitamin K2, not only for bone & artery health, but also because it has anti-PCa properties.

He said that if my leg was clear in 3 months, he would agree.

An ultrasound after 3 months showed one vein clear - but not the other. I had already told him of my intention to use nattokinase. Surprisingly, he agreed to my stopping the Warfarin. He said that the other vein might never clear anyway. And that I should listen to my body if the nattokinase wasn't working.

I did listen, & increased the dose when the leg started to ache.

But here is how nattokinase can be used with confidence. The D-dimer blood test indicates whether there is an active clot. Nattokinase will raise D-dimer levels as the fibrin of the clot is degraded, but levels will fall as the clot disappears. You want D-dimer to be as close to zero as the test measures. And you will need a maintenance dose that achieves that.

Nattokinase will also lower fibrinogen. It needs to be low-normal. Inflammation can increase levels, which makes clots more likely.

I use this:

Don't guess at the proper dose - use the blood tests & adjust accordingly.

& when you are off Warfarin, you will need to take K2 to reverse the arterial damage:

My wife had A-Fib ten years ago. Was in the ER because the heart was racing for hours. Was told she would need to be on meds forever. The drug stopped working & she was told to double the dose. That wasn't very successful. She was given a device that she wore in bed one night. It recorded periods of dangerously high heart rate.

I found a paper (below) where it was suggested that Taurine + Arginine would fix many such problems. 2,000 mg Taurine + 1,000 mg Arginine 3 times daily worked quickly (within a week). She still takes a morning dose (always on an empty stomach). Your case may be different, of course.

None of this should be construed as medical advice, of course.


1 like

Patrick--Did not see this till today---8/19--I had severe A-Fib and something called Bijiminy[May have not spelled it right]. Started the Taurine/Arginine routine 4 years ago[on no drugs, and not one event]--Never read a paper on it--developed the protocol myself--as a food scientist and diet and nutritionist--myself. What got me there is that in the heart Taurine is the amino acid in greatest abundance than anywhere else in the body. Looking at the molecule, it provides a wonderful pathway of electrical conductivity.

I believe the Taurine kind of completes the circuit, thus negating the need of drugs to interfere with unwanted fibrillations. The Arginine--what I call poor mans Viagra, increases the diameter of arteries and veins, allowing for better blood flow, and it reduces while before being fully metabolized, blood pressure. Since I am a Gym Hog even at 73--my routine is 1,000mg Taurine/1000mg Arginine--morning and before bed. And in the afternoon for gym 1000mg Taurine/2000mg Arginine, 1000mg, Citruline[which converts to Arginine, and 500 mg Ornithine--This is due to extreme weight lifting, and stressing the heart and arterial system to the limits.

Now my Cardiologist, who I see once a year for a routine EKG--we just sit and talk, and refuses to stress test me---says he cannot reach the levels of stress that I create in the gym--that I am doing a stress test every time I work out.

As to Natto, I also take Serrapeptase[research this]--I have been taking both in combo for about 20 years. And current research is more favorable to the Serrapeptase, even though Nattokinase is quite active also, in dissolving the fibrous outer coating of [Pca cells]. In vivo tests show the enzymes do indeed dissolve the outer coating of the cancer cells. Also indicated is that Pancreatin also has some affect--if you use it on an empty stomach, instead of after eating as a digestive aid. So the theory is that compromised outer shells of Pca cells allows for other drugs/supplements to more easily attack or attach themselves to those cells causing Ocosis/Apostasies.




I am in awe of you. To independently arrive at the taurine/arginine hypothesis.

The sad thing is that many are on a lifetime prescription because of a trivial amino acid imbalance. & the remedy has no side effects & little cost.

I'm glad you mentioned it, because my wife is no longer a solitary anecdotal case.



Patrick, Started taking supplements in 1967. Thought they cost too much so I opened up a Health Food Store in 1969. Which became a chain--the first chain in NYC.[Land Of Plenty] So I have been involved for a long time. Sold the business in the mid 70's and went on to other stuff--but Food Science, came along with me thru retirement in 2005.

It is kind of funny--My cardiologist says that it will not be my Heart that kills me. And my Urologist says it will not be my Pca that will kill me.

So I hope to settle on Old Age to kill me. Check out 'Serrapeptase and Prostate Cancer' on Bing or Google--few interesting articles.





I’m very interested in the protocol you developed on your own.

I’m 72, a Gleason 6, on Active Surveillance, so far. I also have both BPH and ED. I do not have your training and expertise with dietary issues.

Until recently, I took Citrulline every day and then on weekends, when I’m more sexually active, I took a 500 mg Arginine booster. This enabled me to take less Cialis. Now that I have cut out the Arginine, I need to take 20 mg of Cialis.

The reason I stopped Arginine and Citrulline is that there’s a fairly new therapy that is proving effective against prostate cancer. It’s becoming more accepted and better established – it’s called Arginine Deprivation Therapy.

As I understand it, arginine does not have the same effect on all forms of cancer – some it seems to slow down, based on preliminary studies – but so far, arginine deprivation appears to slow the growth of prostate cancer. So is the corollary true – does taking arginine as a supplement fuel the growth of prostate cancer cells?

I would appreciate any thoughts you may have on this.



Gosh Steve I do not know what to say. Just based on my use of L-Arginine---I should be dead by now. I had 2,000 Mgs yesterday before Gym, workouts, 2,000 Mgs before bed, and 2,000 Mgs this morning--all on empty stomach. I use Ornithine with Arginine before workouts due to the synergistic effect of opening up arteries for blood flow, due to the release of Nitric Oxide. Citrulline converts to Arginine if my memory is correct. And it is good as a post workout amino, While Arginine is great before sex, and before workout. By the way you were not taking enough L-Arginine if you wanted to get maximum erection effect.

My experience pre-surgery, was 3, 000 mgs 30-40 minutes before Ejaculation. You have to experiment on the timing---and having food in your stomach affects the full working of the Nitric Oxide affect, from Arginine.

I scanned the articles as to cancer---seems to be more concern with cervical cancer. I have been using the Arginine Protocol, since 1993.

I do not believe it caused me to have Prostate Cancer. Something caused my Brca-2, and PTEN genes to mutate. The betting is that since I was low T for 25 years, that a Biological negative transgression occurred, which is tied to the Low T. It was not L-Arginine, in my opinion. Remember when eggs were good, then no good, then good again, and then not good, to finally be good. Each Gov't sponsored, study had scientific date to prove their point at that particular time, for each study.

Now Arginine is a non-essential Amino acid. Non-essential means we do not need it from foods as the body makes it. Essential amino acids means we have to get them from foods. Since the body makes Arginine, to go on to cause other biochemical reactions---do you think God would allow Arginine to be made, if it was going to kill us. I would argue that as we age, the body does not make as much of it as it use to, which can be related to poorer erections and ejaculations, as we age. Meaning the amount of Nitric Oxide is less available. Viagra, was formulated on the workings of Arginine. Though it works a bit differently. I am not a Doctor, but play one at home. When able before surgery---the ejaculates had 2-3 times the amount, of fluids as normal which allowed the orgasm to be much extended. Of course as I said above I used 3 grams before horizontal pleasures.

I ain't stopping--as it is a major benefactor to heart health.



Middlejoel--read the other posts. Good info--I will expand. I am not a doctor, but a very serious Chemist, Food Scientist, and hold also a degree in Diet and Nutrition.

This will be a multi-faceted reply: Nattokinase has been used by the Japanese first about 1993. Its purpose was to replace blood thinners. It itself is not a blood thinner--but as another poster indicated it reduces fibrin. It does this but dissolving it. If you have low fibrin in your blood it is very hard to form a clot. I have been using since 2,000 or 16 years. I also had A-fib. Today it is gone. More on that later.

There is another enzyme which is Serrapeptase. It also reduces fibrin by the same process of dissolving the fibrin. I have added this and I am using in combo with Nattokinase. Serrapeptase was added about 10 years ago. Serrapeptase is the enzyme in the cocoons of moths and butterflies,, and it is the key material that dissolves the outer coating, allowing them to escape and fly, off and live their cycle. In vivo, it has been observed in many labs that these materials just plainly eat up/dissolve fibrin.

OK: next. Dosages: As I said I am not a Doctor, but this is what I take: Nattokinase 100mg. of 2000 Fu units---2 of these on an empty stomach in the morning. And I take 40,000 SPU units--2 of these also with the Nattokinase. At night before bed, on an empty stomach I take one of each.

Now there is some research, but I will just bypass references and get to the bottom line: I take 1000Mg of Taurine 3 times a day, in 1000 Mg capsules. Also on an empty stomach. I know this empty stomach thing is hard--but I already had one heart attack 23 years ago and I am not wanting another--or a stroke. The way this works, as proposed by the papers I absorbed, is that much of the Taurine goes to the heart muscle. The heart has the greatest % of Taurine, when compared to other amino acids. It has been proposed that the electrical signals of the heart travel thru pathways of Taurine in the heart. What is being proposed more Taurine less A-Fib attacks. I was on metaprolol, as needed when I got an attack. I had the attacks on and off for about 10 years. I know the Nattokinase and Serrapeptase, where preventing the possibility of a stroke but the A-Fib thing was pretty bad with me when the attacks came. I started the Taurine protocol 4 years ago. I have not had one attack since. My Cardiologist, knows of my strong leanings towards Natural Healing--and just says--if you think it works keep using it! So this is up to you. Taurine is in red meat---but I am mega dosing to make sure I get enough. I use it as a drug, and not as a food.

OK: good news about these 2 enzymes as related to fighting PROSTATE CANCER: As reported in some papers, and you can find them by searching---In Vivo, when these enzymes are in the vicinity of prostate cancer cells they tend to dissolve the outer coating of the cancer cell allowing for T cells to attack, or it makes it easier for Vitamin K1-K2 complex to cause cell death by ocosis. The K1 is the actual killer--the K2 is what transports calcium to the bones--needed if on ADT as I am. It appears from what the papers are saying is that prostate cancer cells have a fibrous outer coating, that protects them from our immune system, from getting in. Whatever drug or material used--you want to get to the nucleus of the cancer cell and squash it.

So in conclusion to your inquiry: By all means consider the use of Nattokinase, the new one I suggested Serrapeptase, Taurine for the Heart[A-Fib], and a K1-K2 complex. I use Doctors Best Product line for the Enzymes and the Vitacost Label for the others[K1-K2] complex, Taurine] You have the doses above, that I used--it took many years to determine dosage. I buy all of my stuff, at prices anywhere. And further, I have many years at this--so what I am doing is my documentation--and I will not miss a day or a dose. That is how serious I take what was written above.



1 like

Winni..., Patrick and Nalakrats, Thanks so much for the quick and informative response. My first read-through tells me that I should stop the Warfarin and start using Natto instead. Some years back, I was taking one cap for general health purposes but I stopped that when I first found out that I had PCa about 10 years ago. In the next few days I plan on getting deeper into the source of information provided by all of you although some of it is deep stuff and over my head.

Malakrats, is there any concern with bleeding and inability to clot while supplementing with those mega doses? Is there a minimum level of fibrin one must maintain?



No--there is no concern about bleeding. But when I had my surgery, I told the Urologist of my use, and he was concerned---so I stopped the Natto, and Serra a week before surgery. I do not think it is mega dosing--since the company I buy from has a 10,000 FU capsule for Natto and a 80,000 SPU for Serra. So my total intake per day is 6,000 FU units for Natto, and 120,000 SPU units for Serrapeptase

Remember when off warfarin, you can consume Vitamin K, so that is your ace in the hole---and with us needing bone health, and the new data about K1, causing cell death to Prostate Cancer Cells, by Ocosis--I would do your due diligence--and proceed or not. I am not a Doctor--but then Doctors only take a 3 credit course on nutrition---I have 45 years in it--and still got PCa. So find out by study. I understand your concern about stroke. It is a biggie.

As an aside My cardiologist that I have had for 8 years has never offered me a stress test. I ask, and he always say's your in the gym 4 days a week, and that stress tests will not reach the level of stress that I create in the gym. I do some serious heavy lifting--even while on ADT. As to strokes---he lets me do my own thing. So I have no current Doctor except in the past, Naturopaths--who are fully previous Internal Medical Doctors confirm with me that I am doing the right things. Wish you luck in your investigations.



I have been on warfarin 8 plus years. I have never felt lite headed or dizzy on the medication. Check with your pharmacist on its side effects. If you have a blood pressure machine check your blood pressure When you feel light headed. You could have hypoglycemia. Of course talk to your doctor about this.



Dennis, good call.

I do have a BP machine and I have checked the vitals but I didn't experience any significant changes. My BP and heart rate are naturally on the low side usually 115-120 over 55-60 and a heart rate around 60. Would a low hypoglycemic affect blood pressure rates? Printed side affects of warfarin include dizziness and lite headed. I suppose that it wouldn't hurt to check the blood glucose at those times, I have yo find out how to do that, thanks,



You may also like...