Any thoughts on Baking soda and molasses? Manunka UMF +20 Coffee enemas as a means of fighting advanced prostate metastatic cancer?

[Daddysdaughter]

Has anyone tried this and found it to work? What if you use Manunka Honey instead? All thoughts ideas and experiences welcomed!!

[Blair77]

What medicines is he currently taking for his prostate cancer?

[Daddysdaughter in reply to Blair77]

For now just Lupron till he returns from his Europe vacation.

[Blair77 in reply to Blair77]

I would read the LATITUDE study if I were you.

[Daddysdaughter in reply to Blair77]

Just Lupron, he will start Xtandi when he returns from Europe

[pjoshea13]

Cancer myths & quack treatments replicate like chain letters on the Internet.

"Baking soda and molasses?" Baking soda and maple syrup gets more Google hits.

Perhaps the best way to handle this one is to mention Tullio Simoncini, the struck-off Italian doctor who believes that my cancer is due to a yeast infection.

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tulli...

The idea of baking soda is to increase the alkalinity of the blood.

"The pH of the body's extracellular fluids is normally tightly regulated by buffering agents, the respiratory system, and the renal system, keeping the pH of the arterial blood plasma between 7.36 and 7.42."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Acid–...

Mess with that at your peril.

Oral baking soda, with or without the sugars, enter the stomach to meet acid. Take enough baking soda & the pH will quickly go from 2 to 7. However, the stomach recovers quickly & the pH falls again.

When stomach contents leave the stomach, the pH rises again:

"With a pH of approximately 2, chyme emerging from the stomach is very acidic. The duodenum secretes a hormone, cholecystokinin (CCK), which causes the gall bladder to contract, releasing alkaline bile into the duodenum. CCK also causes the release of digestive enzymes from the pancreas. The duodenum is a short section of the small intestine located between the stomach and the rest of the small intestine. The duodenum also produces the hormone secretin to stimulate the pancreatic secretion of large amounts of sodium bicarbonate, which then raises pH of the chyme to 7."

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chyme

"Sodium bicarbonate" = baking soda; isn't that ironic?

Anyway, oral baking soda cannot boost plasma pH above 7.42. And normal plasma pH is unlikely to affect the acidity within a cancer cell.

Nonetheless, sooner or later a man with PCa will hear about Vernon Johnston, "who beat his Grade 4 prostate cancer with a baking soda, molasses protocol and endless vegetables as a diet."

There are over 2.3 million American men living today who have received a PCa diagnosis at some time. How many have tried baking soda? Where is the buzz in PCa groups?

...

"Coffee enemas" That sounds like Max Gerson:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_G...

...

"Manunka UMF"?

I think there is a good case to be made for thr propolis produced by New Zealand bees. It is very high in caffeic acid phenethyl ester (CAPE).

bio30.com/BIO30-Propolis/wh...

I wouldn't touch the honey though - the ratio of sugar to phytochemicals is too high.

Search for a post I wrote a year ago: "Propolis - CAPE"

-Patrick

[Daddysdaughter in reply to pjoshea13]

Thank you for all the info, I know there's a lot of hype on these "cancer cures" I don't believe that they do, I was curious if anyone tried it.. and I'm sure many have. I have read over the last few days about the vegan diet with no flour, or processed foods and no sugar.. I am trying to educate my father on the right choices at this point rather then doing any of these fad "cures". It just came up every time I looked up best diet for advanced metastatic PC..

As far as the honey, I think honey is healthy, but I get the downside of sugar.. I will look into CAPE. Thank you for being so informative!

[pjoshea13 in reply to Daddysdaughter]

When I hear "vegan" I tend to think of Dean Ornish & his 10% fat vegan diet. Dr Myers has said that his low-fat diet patients do not do well. He recommends a 40% Mediterranean diet.

Anyone here on a high-fat vegan diet>

-Patrick

[Hidden in reply to Daddysdaughter]

It is good that you are putting out these ideas to this forum and getting feedback. We here have seen very questionable 'alternative' treatments that are really just quackery. I wish good health to your father. My daughter is also very supportive in my cancer journey and I very much appreciate that and applaud you in your efforts.

[spm58 in reply to Hidden]

Since we're throwing treatments out, has anyone tried bryophyllum piñata leaves for cancer? I actually have heard some good support of this. Just wondering-

[Daddysdaughter in reply to Hidden]

Thank you so much! He is out on vacation enjoying Germany and other European countries now. I'm so glad that he is doing it. And thank you for your support and input.

[DS_WAVL in reply to Daddysdaughter]

With any treatment, "Alternative" or not, there is no One Size Fits All solution. Every cancer is unique and every patient is unique. Your father's team of physicians know his history and the nature of his disease.

Cancer treatment is vexing and complicated, with no certain outcome- hence the appeal of quacks who promise simple solutions while peddling false hope to the desperate and suffering.

Caveat emptor, and good luck.

[edd1717 in reply to pjoshea13]

Try drinking alkaline water for everyday drinking.simple way to raise the ph.look for water stores.i buy it for 1.50 a gallon. Gerson therapy works,need to cut out as much meat as you can,eliminate all chemicals from the house cleaning,soaps etc. You need to go organic for all cleaning,but especially go organic with your underarm deordant,tooth paste,shampoo and soaps. This alone eliminates 500 different chemicals to tour body. More vitamin c,b, d,e all of them. I have more stuff to say I'm sleepy.

[Hidden in reply to edd1717]

Gerson? No. Research it and you will see why.

[seekr1 in reply to Hidden]

Hi WSOOeddle, I was looking into the Gerson therapy. Please let us know why you don't like their approach.

Thanks a lot in advance!

[Hidden in reply to seekr1]

It is quackery. People spend a fortune on this ineffective treatment when they could be getting legitimate medical care. As I mentioned, just google it. This came up in 10 seconds:

en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Max_G...

Here's a snippet from this web site:

"Gerson described his approach in the book A Cancer Therapy: Results of 50 Cases (1958). The National Cancer Institute evaluated Gerson's claims and concluded that his data showed no benefit from his treatment.[1] The therapy is both ineffective and dangerous.[2][3]"

[Daddysdaughter in reply to Hidden]

I agree we never did it! After i looked into it and read about it!

[Roland632017 in reply to pjoshea13]

Hi Patrick

I still consider you a genius and highly educated/informed on all aspects regarding prostate cancer and even beyond. I salute you.

From the early start I was fooling around that was why I referred myself as a lab rat.

So Lab Rat 1 trying Doxycycline/Vitamin C. It is effective for 2 weeks but not to the extent which I am impressed. And for that matter I over dosed on a 850 g canned peaches in syrup that landed me in hospital ER for my second left ureteric stent.

So while recovering on Christmas Day here in Sydney and having chatted with Dan59 and seeing Neal's 18 months failure on Zytiga &ADT (he later corrected as 3 years before castrated). I then came across Vermon Cancer cure in slightly more details.

You were correct in some aspects but truely you have neglected the critical bottleneck.

The bicarbonate causes what you clearly claim and I would agree.

The ultimate function is to raise the Urine pH to a healthy range ( 6.5 to 7.5 ) And in pH term from 5.5 to 6:5 it is 10 times.

You would also need to get yourself acclimatise by doing it gradually.

But coming to Vernom. He is when newly diagnosed Stage 4 PCa and psa 22 when biopsies confirmed PCa, He was on some medication and psa was 5.8 when he embarked on his baking/molasses treatment and after 12 days his psa is 0.1 and his bone scans show no metastasis.

This is in line with your research/report on the need for Bone Scan for PCa patient with < psa 8.

So the ultimate success is to be able to manage Urine & Saliva pH.

Nalakrats had done the ceacium chloride treatment before and he would certainly be fully aware about the crucial role regarding pH control.

Next if you can maintain your Urine pH @8.5 for 5 days or longer. God knows what will happen to the cancer cells.

My situation got tweeted a little bit but I found that maintaining pH 8.5 for 9 days will cause bleeding ( thinning effects like from warfarin/heparin) not too dangerous for me unless you suffer from blood clotting issues.

I hope I did not bore you.

Laughter is the best medicine. LOL

Roland

[Dr_WHO]

I am sorry, but baking soda and molasses can not not work. It is chemistry. Baking soda or sodium bicarbonate NaHCO3 is a buffer. It reacts with stomach acid to make carbon dioxide, salt (NaCl), and water. The equation is

NaHCO3 + HCl ---> CO2 + NaCl +H2O

No baking soda will make it to your blood stream.

It would take a lot of baking soda to neutralize all of the acid that is in your stomach. Taking the amount of baking soda listed in the YouTube videos will be the same as taking Tums.

[rococo]

I tried it several tlmes. Brought the psa down twice but never sure since it wasn't consisistant.. After a few days the right dose will turn your urine alkaline when the ph tape turns dark blue. Never more than 3 wks, too risky.

[Darryl Partner]

You can use our direct message system without needing email. Just click on the persons' name and then message

[Darryl Partner]

Malecare has a simple aphorism: Everything you put in your mouth changes your life.

There are many credible, incredible and bs-laden presentations online. A university based position is no guarantee of a useful presentation, nor are popular ones with millions of adherents. Perhaps one day we'll find a diet that proves helpful ....perhaps. It's likely that a helpful diet would have been helpful if initiated earlier in ones life, assuming we know what that diet would be. For now, a diet that breeds happiness and a sober bmi and body weight will likely be your most helpful course.

[Gary64]

I'm not one to dismiss anything that might help but there are hundreds of potential alternative therapies discussed on the web and most are likely not based on any scientific research. You might want to do a search of Gordon Saxe, MD/PhD, at UC San Diego and find the results of the study that he did in 2006 on the impact of plant based diet and stress reduction on advanced prostate cancer. Although I wasn't an official participant Dr. Saxe allowed me to me sit through the study which was scientifically performed and wasn't just anecdotal which you'll typically hear online. I got to know the participating patients and can say that the results were impressive. You can find the summary of the study if you look for it. I've stayed in touch with a couple of the participants and they continue to do well more than a decade later.

[Daddysdaughter in reply to Gary64]

I will look into it. For now he is trying to avoid all animal products and eating plant based except that he cannot find soy/almond milk in the morning for coffee while on a tour in Europe. He still is eating fish as protein so it completely plant base.. Baby steps is what I told him. Thank you I will look into the studs and see if I can find some info.

[Gary64 in reply to Daddysdaughter]

Good luck. Tell him not to obsess over a little milk. Green tea would be better than coffee.

[Daddysdaughter in reply to Gary64]

I sent 3 different kinds of green tea plus green tea pills just in case.

[Daddysdaughter]

Nalakrats, thank you for your explanation. Now I understand the mechanism and the chemistry behind it all. I will try it out when he returns from. Germany!

[seekr1]

Hi Bruce, please let us know what fruits have less sugar since I've been eating bananas, grapes, etc.

Thanks a lot in advance!

Luis

[Wife2]

The warning here is this: cancer scares people. They run to doctors to pursue a fix just as they search for alternative treatments to cure. Heres what i know. Money corrupts. Therefore , the medical community is corrupt . Information on alternative approaches is sketchy and geavily discredited by the medical community and ALL of us scratch our hardest to stay here one more day. But, at what cost? Truth is, this is your fathers journey. What he wants, how he chooses to live each day of his life is the ONLY factor to consider. For some, like my husband, natural is the ONLY way to go. In reality, if a man lives long enough, he WILL be diagnosed with pc. The likelihood that he will die of something else is higher than the odds of his dying from pc. TRUTH. However, if its aggressive, it needs to be fought from ALL fronts. If its not, you have options. One thing i KNOW is this: chemo kills. Maybe not during this battle, but it will win the war. Believe it. What matters is this: It doesnt matter what you do beyond living each day to the fullest and making memories that will carry you all through this. Its free, non caustic and as natural as it comes. If chemo, surgery, etc is his choice, support his immune system first and formost. From a natural perspective, clean up his diet, detox his organs and lymph system so he has a fighting chance at combatting the ill effects of chemo, radiation, etc. And the natural defenses of his body are able to do their job. Standard medical treatments are ALL highly toxic and damaging to a body. The only medical center that focuses on the whole body is Cancer Centers of America. If possible, that would be my choice. Good luck to you all.

[Hidden in reply to Wife2]

Great input . You are speaking from

Experience and I like what you have to say. “ live each day to the fullest” Thank you.

[Hidden]

I’m doing it, but Nalakrats can give you the low down..The molasses’s is key . Manuka is magical but better off on its own.. I had a friend and many others have done Coffee .,E .. I have not. Nice to see you post.. prayers for him..