"A change in diet may reduce risk of ... - Advanced Prostate...

Advanced Prostate Cancer

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"A change in diet may reduce risk of lethal prostate cancer" Your thoughts on the study results below?

GeorgeGlass profile image

What do you all think of these findings, particularly regarding the foods listed? Some of them are known to be heathy, such as: fish, beans, nuts, pulses, spinach and beets!

Also - What if you already have aggressive prostate cancer, then does eating the less lethal food, mentioned below, become less or non-impactful?

medicalnewstoday.com/articl...

"The researchers found associations between more aggressive prostate cancer and three metabolites – phenylacetylglutamine, choline, and betaine."

"The researchers found that men with elevated phenylacetylglutamine in their blood serum at the start of the study were 2.5 times more likely to die of prostate cancer than those with the lowest levels. Men with increased choline or betaine had almost twice the risk of lethal prostate cancer as controls."

"Phenylacetylglutamine is produced when gut bacteria break down phenylalanine, an essential amino acid. Choline and betaine are in some foods, as well as being formed by gut bacteria.

Phenylalanine is in high protein foods, such as dairy, meat, poultry, soy, fish, beans, nuts, and diet sodas sweetened with aspartame. It is an essential part of many proteins and enzymes in the body and, when converted to tyrosine, is used to make the neurotransmitter dopamine.

CholineTrusted Source is found mainly in animal products, such as meat, fish, eggs, and dairy, although pulses, nuts, and seeds are sources for vegans. Foods high in betaineTrusted Source include shellfish, wheat, spinach, and beets.

The researchers found that men with elevated phenylacetylglutamine in their blood serum at the start of the study were 2.5 times more likely to die of prostate cancer than those with the lowest levels. Men with increased choline or betaine had almost twice the risk of lethal prostate cancer as controls.

Dr. Sharifi commented: “[Our findings] suggest that food intake has a complex interaction with gut bacteria to affect lethal prostate cancer risk.”

Some gut bacteria convert choline and betaine into trimethylamine and trimethylamine N-oxide (TMAO)Trusted Source, which a previous studyTrusted Source found may also increase the risk of cardiovascular and neurological disorders. This is the first study to show an association between precursors of TMAO and cancer.

“Betaine and choline are being converted into more toxic chemicals in some. This does not mean they are bad for everyone. It’s the diet-microbe interaction that leads to the cancer.”

— Prof. Tim Spector, Professor of Genetic Epidemiology, King’s College, London, and co-founder of Zoe, a health science company."

69 Replies

Some say that diet doesn’t effect pc much . I call that as BS . Food is medicine . Garbage in ,what do we expect ? I’ve been on the holistic whole food no animal proteins diet from a naturalpathic Oncologist for six years now . I cheat once in awhile now after six years undetectable . I am positive that it is better on the heart and digestive trac. The methane produced by raising meat is a tremendous factor in global warming . The world would be a better place without meat production .. It will never happen . However I do relish a top dog rib eye once a year . 🏋🏽‍♂️👍

Shooter1 profile image
Shooter1 in reply to Lulu700

Up here in North Idaho a lot of the land is good only for trees and grass. Beeves eat grass and make meat. No feedlot beef in my house. Grass fed, grass finished, usually straight off the range to the locker and my freezer. May not be perfect, but lots better than any corn fed animals for you. I still don't eat a lot of it and wild caught salmon is normal. Lots of vegi's and fruit. Now if you want to lend me a fine cook, say Sharise, I'm sure my diet would be better. That gal of yours can turn out mighty fine food. Life Is Good, especially with a fine wife..

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Shooter1

Farm raised fish with antibiotics and the giant feed lots across the world are doing damage to the planet .. . I see where 25% of beef eaten in the US now comes in whole frozen carcasses from Nicaragua where they kill the natives for the land and burn the forest to raise grass . As long as it come in whole frozen and they cut it here they don’t need to claim it’s foreign or it’s Origen . All fast food hamburger mostly .

Shooter1 profile image
Shooter1 in reply to Lulu700

Don't eat farm raised fish as you say 'not good'. No imported beef. All local grass only . Don't eat 'fast food". Agree with all you said. Best wishes to you and good healthl\. Life is Good, let's both enjoy it..

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Shooter1

Warm temps here . Life is good . Thank God for everyday under the sun 🙏❤️

cesces profile image
cesces in reply to Shooter1

Dr. Myers had a real issue with cornfed meat.

Something to do with the generation of arachnoidic acid.

Shooter1 profile image
Shooter1 in reply to cesces

I've seen this elsewhere too. Agree, crowding, shots, feed animal byproducts, way excess fat. Non of that good for you. Won't eat it again...

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Shooter1

Yep ,we are not even talking about what they eat in Asia ,bats and such , crazy .

Muffin2019 profile image
Muffin2019 in reply to Lulu700

The only beef I have is once a week and not missing it.

Runner1957 profile image
Runner1957 in reply to Lulu700

Hi Lulu. I am looking for a good natural diet. Do you have any info you can share?Appreciated.

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Runner1957

I do what the Naturalpathic Dr Uzick . Suggest.. plant based , whole food diet ,no processed food or animal proteins .. He says that if i love meat that once every ten days or so a grass feed or wild game or deep water fish is ok . The big thin* for me was cutting all processed sugar and flour . My be,over brother Mike passed two years ago from heart issues . He was born in 57 . Bad diet and big drinker . He never said no to anything . Retired from the USPO at 62 but at 63 was gone. This is a heart healthy die5 too . Which is important to us that survive on adt . Good luck Runner! 🏋🏽‍♂️

Miket218 profile image
Miket218 in reply to Lulu700

Sounds like your diet includes Kool Aid. At least it doesn’t produce methane. Drink on. 😊

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Miket218

Yah! Do not drink the koolaid ! My friend had two sisters in Jonestown that did! Very sad , young girls . 😫

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to Miket218

Are you trying to be condescending of Lulu? What do you mean by him drinking the kool-aid?

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to Lulu700

Good response as always!

Is an ounce of nuts with 40 ounces of veggies and fruit and some oatmeal and olive oil as "bad" as a plate of some mashed potatoes with gravy and a big-gulp?

Declaring foods good and bad is simplistic. What else do the foods bring to the table? Fiber? Vitamins? Minerals? I can understand limiting red meat and egg yolks. Bang for the buck is tenuous.

The study is observational. If you overeat I'd say that there is a better chance that you are fat. And less chance that you are physically active.

And, as you mentioned, while some of these are correlated with getting APC, are they coorelated with mortality if you have APC?

I'm not going to start cutting out all protein when we know that it helps prevent cachexia and is part of a healthy diet.

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to RSH1

I am not declaring them good or bad. I just want people to see the data so that they can reduce their levels of some of this foods. This provides a standard level and how to adjust intakes to be on the lower end of the spectrum for phenylglutamine, choline and betaine: How much choline should you take a day?

An average diet supplies 200-600 mg of choline daily. Adequate Intake (AI), as established by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Institute of Medicine, for adults is 550 mg per day for men and breast feeding women; women, 425 mg per day; pregnant women, 450 mg per day.

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to GeorgeGlass

Hi George, I'm very not shooting the messenger. I don't know how much choline we should get but probably on the low end of normal. Some is necessary for body processes.

This is an ongoing debate on this forum. I became a vegetarian days after my diagnosis. Later I switched to eating fish. That was 29 years ago.

I believe that eating healthy is one more thing you can do for yourself. It just makes sense. Why, if you have a hormone fed cancer and eat meats from domestic animals shot full of hormones to make them grow bigger and grow faster. It's like crying to your doctor to cure your lung cancer while you're still smoking.

I eat wild caught fish and organic fruits and vegetables. It's not a cure, but I believe it can help in the long run.

Ahk1 profile image
Ahk1 in reply to Magnus1964

I do the same exact diet and like you said, it makes sense.

Pretty much the same as I eat Magnus. Good response as always. Some foods are healthy but only when they are in moderation. For example, if someone was living in the woods, they wouldnt be able to eat 10 oz of nuts per day because they have to crack them open one by one. The body has never evolved to having some of these foods in such easy access and quantity.

Also: I just want people to see the data so that they can reduce their levels of some of this foods. This provides a standard level and how to adjust intakes to be on the lower end of the spectrum for phenylglutamine, choline and betaine: How much choline should you take a day?

An average diet supplies 200-600 mg of choline daily. Adequate Intake (AI), as established by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Institute of Medicine, for adults is 550 mg per day for men and breast feeding women; women, 425 mg per day; pregnant women, 450 mg per day.

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to Magnus1964

Similar diet and thoughts here.

The study references 'elevated levels'. I couldn't find how 'elevated' is defined and what quantities of those foods listed will result in elevated levels.

I found this: Also: I just want people to see the data so that they can reduce their levels of some of this foods. This provides a standard level and how to adjust intakes to be on the lower end of the spectrum for phenylglutamine, choline and betaine: How much choline should you take a day?

An average diet supplies 200-600 mg of choline daily. Adequate Intake (AI), as established by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Institute of Medicine, for adults is 550 mg per day for men and breast feeding women; women, 425 mg per day; pregnant women, 450 mg per day.

findanyanswer.com/which-nut...

My take after reading tons of NIH studies is choline in eggs/chicken, casein in cow milk, and animal protein are the biggest offenders associated with progression/recurrence (not cause). So I’ve reduced my intake of those things and switched to goat milk (a less offensive form of lutein), cut eggs down to twice/wk, and eat lamb when I do eat animal meat (no hormones). Then add the foods to make the immune system stronger and inhibit progression- like sulfrophrane, lycopene, and MCP.

Miket218 profile image
Miket218 in reply to timotur

Chicken is also hormone free.

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Miket218

Studies last year pointing to chicken causing cancer .on the news!

timotur profile image
timotur in reply to Lulu700

Yes, choline in eggs and chicken...!onegreenplanet.org/natural-....

Explorer08 profile image
Explorer08 in reply to timotur

With regard to lutein, I found this NIH citation regarding the action of lutein on prostate cancer cells:

pubmed.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/251...

I've been taking a Lutein/Zeaxanthin supplement for years as part of a regimen to fight off further degradation in my vision.

timotur profile image
timotur in reply to Explorer08

Explorer: thanks for posting that about lutein. I made an error above and corrected it-- it is actually casein in milk that is associated with progression. And I found that goat milk has a less harmful form of it.

ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articl...

wjmh.org/Synapse/Data/PDFDa...

gundrymd.com/does-goat-chee...

Also, here's a list of lutein-containing foods-- kale, broccoli, brussel sprouts, etc... eggs are also on the list, but choline in eggs complicates things.

verywellfit.com/learn-about...

If this was in any way true why aren’t ALL men afflicted with PCa - we are a sub-set with a specific disease that arose from many millions of transactions over many years - as I have stated repeatedly elimination of certain food types is not the answer, or even the beginning of the answer.

MrG68 profile image
MrG68 in reply to clayfin

Different people have different body types. Your genes you inherit are biased towards their environment. If your ancestors grew up in Alaska wrt New York City you’d have a different genetic makeup. It’s worth pointing out that even though you have certain genes, you can influence how your genes are expressed from diet. So you can literally turn genes on and off. There’s also the effects of epigenetics. You expression can be changed epigenetically due to your environment. Methylation for example will do just that. This is also related to diet because it relies on folate etc.

So, the point I’m making is really that diet is a big consideration. But it’s not the only consideration. If you focus on diet alone, the chances are you will be less successful than you could have been.

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to clayfin

I think elimination of some foods is clearly a good option, not just for cancer, but for heart health and other disease prevention. This discussion is however about reduction in portion size of some foods: I found this: Also: I just want people to see the data so that they can reduce their levels of some of this foods. This provides a standard level and how to adjust intakes to be on the lower end of the spectrum for phenylglutamine, choline and betaine: How much choline should you take a day?

An average diet supplies 200-600 mg of choline daily. Adequate Intake (AI), as established by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Institute of Medicine, for adults is 550 mg per day for men and breast feeding women; women, 425 mg per day; pregnant women, 450 mg per day.

findanyanswer.com/which-nut...

When diagnosed with cancer, a common impulse is to change lifestyle as a heart patient who suddenly understand that it is not ok to enjoy a cheeseburger for lunch anymore. Maybe it can help you feel better but sadly, there is no diet, superfood, vitamin, or drink that makes a clear difference on cancer cells.

Anomalous profile image
Anomalous in reply to Gemlin_

Not like its going to cure anything

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to Gemlin_

It's not about changing the cancer cells as much as it is about changing the gut microbiome and thus improving the immunity in your gut, which allows the cancer meds to be more effective in suppressing the cancer for a longer period of time.

Vitamins, foods and lifestyle can all cause small statistical bumps. The key is discovering the things that give you more than a small nudge in the "good" direction. Since a cure does not yet exist I will have to settle for things that slow the progression. What slows the progression for one person might have no effect for somebody else.

….I read these submissions and I think to myself, what sort of blood tests are required to measure these compounds?

A specialized lab. Don't need to test the levels. Just reduce some to get to the lower end of the intake based on the numbers listed below, try to get a daily intake of choline closer to 200-300 than to 600, and so forth.

I found this: Also: I just want people to see the data so that they can reduce their levels of some of this foods. This provides a standard level and how to adjust intakes to be on the lower end of the spectrum for phenylglutamine, choline and betaine: How much choline should you take a day?

An average diet supplies 200-600 mg of choline daily. Adequate Intake (AI), as established by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Institute of Medicine, for adults is 550 mg per day for men and breast feeding women; women, 425 mg per day; pregnant women, 450 mg per day.

findanyanswer.com/which-nut...

Well, lets not eat then.....right?

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to rocket09

Nobody is saying that - It's about moderation with certain types of foods.I found this: Also: I just want people to see the data so that they can reduce their levels of some of this foods. This provides a standard level and how to adjust intakes to be on the lower end of the spectrum for phenylglutamine, choline and betaine: How much choline should you take a day?

An average diet supplies 200-600 mg of choline daily. Adequate Intake (AI), as established by the Food and Nutrition Board of the National Institute of Medicine, for adults is 550 mg per day for men and breast feeding women; women, 425 mg per day; pregnant women, 450 mg per day.

findanyanswer.com/which-nut...

Thanks for this post George. The gut microbiome is a chemical factory and the study of the interaction of foods with the gut microbiome is a pretty new science. There are some interesting videos on Youtube about this, featuring professor Tim Spector. I posted a link to one on this site and it was deleted by the administrator. The main practical diet points I remember are (a) try to eat a lot of different plant foods. He suggests 30 different types per week. (b) Eat fermented foods as long as they don't have a high salt content. (b) Try to avoid highly processed foods, I.e. those with lots of additives, not just processed meets.

Purple-Bike profile image
Purple-Bike in reply to Graham49

Dont all fermented foods have a lot of salt? Sauerkraut,kimchi....

MrG68 profile image
MrG68 in reply to Purple-Bike

Nope. There are various fermentations. Kefir being the obvious one. I actually create a stater culture with a few kefir grains and coconut water in a quart mason jar. After a couple of days the liquid is good enough to ferment fruit. No salt in there. You can use this culture over and over by leaving about a cup and adding more coconut water. This will allow you to get fruit into your diet without the sugar. I include this fruit in with some coconut kefir but add a bit of stevia. You have to be careful because with fruit fermentation you can end up with a lot of alcohol.

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to MrG68

Could you make a video of this and share with everyone? Maybe there is already a video youve seen, to share?

MrG68 profile image
MrG68 in reply to GeorgeGlass

There’s no need to make a video, it’s pretty straight forward.1. Get a mason jar and fill with 3/4 full of coconut water.

2. Put a spoonful of kefir grains. I ferment kefir so when they’ve grown to much I’ll put some in there. You can buy kefir grains on Amazon. If you use a metal canning lid, the one that comes with the jar, you’ll need to open and close it about twice a day to burp the gas.

3. Leave for 2/3 days, burping as required. You should taste it after this time. It should be sour and fuzzy. If you taste sweetness leave it for another day.

That’s your starter done.

Now to make the ferment.

1. Pour 2/3 of the ferment into another sterilized mason jar. Add a bit of filtered water, about a cup.

2. Add ripe fruit into the starter and seal. Burp if you have the canning lids.

3. Ferment until the sugars gone. Different fruits have different fermentation times. Best way is to taste it to see if the fruit is sour. If not leave for another day and retest.

Typically I found that by trial and error the following fruits take something like:

Bananas - 2 days

Mango - 3 days

Pineapple - 4/5 days

Pomegranate - 3/4 days

Papaya - 3/4 days

It depends on your temperature. You just got to get stuck in an experiment.

If you ferment fruit too long you’ll get alcohol. Just be aware of that of driving! IMO bananas and pomegranate taste the best.

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to MrG68

Thanks, does it have to be coconut water?

MrG68 profile image
MrG68 in reply to GeorgeGlass

I’ve always used coconut water, but I guess water with sugar would be good enough. The bacteria feed on the sugars.

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to MrG68

That explains why different store brands have varying levels of sugar in them, even though they are "unsweetened" Wallaby has the least sugar. Lifeway recently lowered theirs from 13 g per serving to 9 grams.

MrG68 profile image
MrG68 in reply to GeorgeGlass

Tbh, from my experience when it comes to anything with live cultures, it’s FAR better making your own. When you buy something, the cultures can vary drastically. You usually get a level of cultures at time of manufacture and these can degrade really easily. A simple ferment has more bacteria than the whole bottle of supplements. It’s not hard to do. No need to be frightened. You’ve just got to get in an experiment. You’ll have it cracked on a couple of ferments.

Graham49 profile image
Graham49 in reply to Purple-Bike

I buy my fermented foods and pick the brands with lower salt content. I try to eat a small amount each day. I thinks it's a case of not going over the top with the salty ones otherwise it could put your blood pressure up.

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to Graham49

I concur wholeheartedly. Also prevents or reduces heart attack and stroke chances when you eat healthy. Many guys die of those things prior to PCx death.

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to Graham49

Yes, I agree, Google keeps suggesting new articles and study results to me because it knows I am interested in the study. I'm learning more and more about the topic, and applying the findings into my intake. It will help my heart health at a minimum.

Don't eat anything that begins with the letter A through the letter Z........

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 11/19/2021 6:24 PM EST

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to j-o-h-n

Except “ two scoops of chocolate chip”!

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to Lulu700

j-o-h-n <===<<< smacks head on desk......I forgot about my Chocolate chip ice cream (two scoops).....I'm such a schmuck...... Thanks Lu for reminding me.....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Friday 11/19/2021 7:50 PM EST

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to j-o-h-n

No smuck . A Minch ! Y un compadre Mio!

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to j-o-h-n

❤️ Got nuttin but love for you 🍨🍨

Gemlin_ profile image
Gemlin_ in reply to j-o-h-n

Just two scoops? Ice cream has a low content of antioxidants so we have to eat significantly more than two scoops to get our DRI. 😇

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to Gemlin_

Now ya talking... (thanks, I'll show that to the prison warden, my wife).....

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 11/20/2021 11:46 AM EST

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to j-o-h-n

Wait? You’ve a warden too! They all must be related .. just lookin out for us .

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Gemlin_

👏👏😂

GeorgeGlass profile image
GeorgeGlass in reply to j-o-h-n

lol

RSH1 profile image
RSH1 in reply to j-o-h-n

Solved! No fats. No carbs. No protein. No eating.

So we need to get all of our calories from alcohol. Drink up!

j-o-h-n profile image
j-o-h-n in reply to RSH1

Cheers........ for:

Good Luck, Good Health and Good Humor.

j-o-h-n Saturday 11/27/2021 11:46 AM EST

To me it’s highly likely a change in diet can have a profound effect in cancers. I put a lot of weight behind it. I think that there’s more to it than that though. I don’t believe you can just list certain foods and/or supplements. If you research the work from Nicholas Gonzales he states that you body type has a lot to do with it. Some people do better on a vegan, some on keto others heavily skewed with meat. This makes sense if you think about it. People who have descended from say Inuits will thrive on their diets that are close to their ancestors etc. So, IMO it’s not enough for just diet considerations. Everyone has a different body composition. What works for one doesn’t work for another. For what it’s worth, Gonzalez apparently had great success with porcine enzymes with people in advanced stages of cancer. His protocol today involves enzymes, diet, body type considerations and the use of coffee enemas to clear out toxins.

If you don’t take all those things into consideration then I would suspect that it increases your chances of failing to combat your condition.

Note: I said the word condition as opposed to disease or other terms used frequently. I believe that cancer is a state of the body. The cancer isn’t a foreign entity that somehow you managed to be the infected with. It’s part of your body, it’s actually been made this way due to its environment. Having a ‘war on cancer’ and treating it as such shouldn’t be the way it should be looked at. Again IMO it’s better to look at how you got to this state and what you can do to maximize your chances of counteracting it. Diet is certainly one of the key pieces of the puzzle, but it’s not the only one.

A healthy and balanced diet is good. For me that includes wild elk, deer, geese, grouse and ducks. I had a smoked Canada goose for dinner- dang that was good.

Lulu700 profile image
Lulu700 in reply to Chugach

That’s sounds delicious ! 😋

academic.oup.com/ajcn/artic...

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