Overlap with ASD?

[Zuku42]

Hello Friends!

I'm writing because I've been very curious about the apparent overlap of symptoms that can present with both ADHD and ASD (Autism Spectrum Disorder). I've read/heard that there are presentations of both that can often be confused and/or overlap. I know that it's not uncommon for people with ADHD to struggle socially, and I certainly do. I was only diagnosed with ADHD last September when I was 34. I keep wondering if I might also have ASD, but I keep thinking that I don't. But then, I keep coming back and needing to go through the process of reaching that conclusion again.

I can really relate to a lot of ASD, but I feel that I do so inconsistently. I'm wondering if I'm only relating to ASD when it's convenient and I'd hate to do that. I haven't found it easy to find professionals to help with ADHD aside from prescribing medications and have a couple of fears/hesitations for trying to get tested for ASD. I don't score consistently with online ASD tests. Overall, I just feel that I can be very inconsistent. I don't know how to see this. I also don't exactly know how much I think I would really gain from an ASD diagnosis if it were present. I think that, if I do have ASD, I would be on the side of very low needs for support. I only really struggle with being functional on a level I associate with ADHD and the parts I struggle with that make me consider ASD are mainly social/emotional.

So I guess the question is really this: Are there those out there with ADHD that have experienced believing that they are also with ASD? If so, what was it like? I guess I'm particularly interested in knowing what it might be like for someone to have ADHD and believe they have ASD, when they don't. How did you differentiate between the two and what things did you confuse between them?

I'm just at the point of wanting to put it to rest and wanting to decide if it's worthwhile trying to get a diagnosis, whether it confirms that I do or don't have ASD.

Thanks in advance for anything anyone wishes to share!

[MTA-]

My wife and I both have ADHD, and she's most likely on the spectrum too.

The first thing I'd say is to not put so much stock in those online ASD tests. You're probably aware of the conversations around how ASD conditions are defined by neurotypical people, and how problematic that is. So, those tests are all about other peoples' perceptions of you. So say it asks "are you socially withdrawn?"; it's actually asking "would others say you are socially withdrawn?". And the results aren't really indicating whether or not you may be on the spectrum, they're indicating whether or not others may see you as being on the spectrum.

You say you'd hate to base a self-diagnose, while only relating to ASD inconsistently. I get this, but I think it's a worry we need to drop. I was diagnosed with ADHD late too (37 for me), so for years I was being told that it was probably just anxiety making me forgetful and disorganised, and I was pathologising normal forgetfulness. As a result, I became very wary and careful about ensuring that I was absolutely certain before I pursued a diagnosis. But when I was diagnosed, I realised that worry was all for nothing; I knew my own mind, and those who said otherwise were proved wrong. Not to mention that if I'd followed their advice, I still would not be diagnosed. The point is that if you're too careful about this, you could fail to recognise the truth.

Besides, everyone experiences neurodivergence differently. Inconsistency means very little. And there's no absolutely certain test. You're not going to be proved wrong if you start self-identifying as being on the spectrum.

To be honest, I am struggling to think of any ASD symptoms that couldn't also be ADHD, and vice versa. I think you'll have to think about how these conditions present as a whole, rather than as a sum of their symptoms. I think the biggest difference is novelty. We both tend to have special interests that we hyperfocus on, but ADHD people tend to flit from one special interest to another, ASD people tend to have one special interest for life (of course, those are tendencies, not absolute rules). And how do you react to change? Neither of us like it, but I see that changes to her routine kinda drain her; they leave her physically depleted.

One last thing: believe women. Because of the social expectation that women be quiet and compliant, they often end up having to mask conditions like these. So, whereas a man who doesn't like change is free to put his foot down and ensure that nothing changes for him, a woman has to go along with change, and observe the pdychological trauma they experience from it. A man who's not very social never has to experience the pain of being forced to be social; whereas a woman who is not very social has to play society's games, and knows all about that pain. People who have been forced the most to fit into our neurotypical world often have the best insights into what that means.

[humble-rasberry]

I love MTA’s response to this. I’ve also tried to figure this out for myself. I read somewhere online that it’s actually more rare for someone to have only ADHD, meaning we probably all have a little ASD. I have friends and family that have been diagnosed with only ASD, and I will say that the biggest difference I see is with memory. One of my best friends on the spectrum has the memory of an elephant. She remembers the most specific things- and will remember everyones birthdays even if they only tell her once. It’s like a super power. She also needs things to be perfectly planned or else everything falls apart. I tend to be more go-with-the-flow and spontaneous, which I think helps our friendship dynamic in that she can keep me grounded and practical and I can help push her out of her comfort zone. But I can also relate to wanting things to go a certain way, even with a more impulsive mindset.

To me, I don’t feel getting an ASD diagnosis would help me much. Treating for ADHD and Anxiety alone give me the tools and help that I would imagine help with ASD as well. But I also think it’s helpful to learn about ASD. I just watched the netflix show “Love on the spectrum” and I loved it just because I felt like I could relate so much in my own social life.

Last thing I will add- I have seen on tiktok a large amount of people recently talking about how they might be on the spectrum. A psychologist entered the discussion to explain that because of COVID and self-isolation, that a lot of us feel confused/disoriented with the idea of socializing. I find myself having to remember that I used to be good at picking up social cues and having actual conversations, but not having any practice these past two years makes me feel like I’m starting over and I don’t know how to talk to people anymore. I think a lot of us are putting this extra stress/pressure on ourselves to be exactly who we were before the pandemic, but I think we need to be patient with ourselves. I say this not to invalidate your experiences with ASD, but personally I feel like this sudden shift in my personality is due to isolation rather than ASD. But of course ASD can also make that adjustment even harder.

Sorry for the long reply, but don’t feel like you need to stress about a formal diagnosis. Tbh, besides going to therapy and taking classes around anger/time management or socializing, there isn’t a magical medication for it. I’m good with dealing with my specific symptoms one at a time. But of course it all depends on what you think is going to help you. If you are going to therapy, it might help to talk about it though. Best wishes my friend 🙂

[Hidden]

I have both, I had my first ADHD diagnosis at 3. I wasn't diagnosed with being on the spectrum until last year. My psychiatrist says she has no doubt I'm on the spectrum, and she knows me well. The symptoms can overlap, but Asperger's social skills are awful, and we feel unbelievably awkward in social situations or interviews etc. The social situations are very nearly painful, and a lot of us go to extremes to avoid them. If social situations cause fear and avoidance, that isn't ADHD. The undeveloped social skills of those on the spectrum are much more than what you see with ADHD. We also have a lot of trouble telling lies. We will tell you the truth no matter how it affects things, people take it the wrong way and get outright angry, but we shoot straight. Being on the spectrum is all about nuances, it's not hard to tell if you know what you are looking for, and only doctors should do that.

So when we are social, it usually ends up very awkward no matter what.

[STEM_Dad]

Try an ASD questionnaire, like this one. It may help you to determine if you ought to be assessed for ASD but a professional.

psychology-tools.com/test/a...

If all you seem to have are the overlapping symptoms with ADHD, then perhaps you only have ADHD. If you have more ASD traits than that, then perhaps you have both.

[Meplus-3]

Hi. I am going to be assessed for an overlap. My 11yr old has both.

[sharkticon]

Yeah lots of people with ADHD also have autism. More recent research seems to even put ADHD in the same family. So if ADHD runs in your family, autism most likely does as well. The cause of them both might even be the same thing, but they just just don't know what that is. As much as we know about these disorders we still know very little. At some point we might find out they are the same thing and find medications that help all symptoms of both. Really ADHD and Autism are just ways of grouping a bunch of symptoms together and giving them a name. So whether you are ADHD or Autistic or both is less important than what symptoms you are dealing with.

Instead of trying to get a diagnosis, I would suggest writing down all the the feelings/behaviors/symptoms that are negatively effecting your life and find the best ways to deal with those symptoms. Because even among ADHD people they already differentiate between inattentive and hyperactive. But you will find as you talk to more people with ADHD that there are many other symptoms that one person will say they are dealing with and another will say they are not. This could be because they have found ways to cope, are not self aware of them, or simply their brain works a little different. There could be multiple causes of what we currently call ADHD. And might even find out that they are several different disorders and end up giving them all different names.

And if you are dealing with symptoms of Autism that don't overlap with ADHD, then I think it would be smart to listen to how people with autism deal with those symptoms.

In short ADHD and Autism are just ways of grouping stuff together that can change over time. But either way you have symptoms that you are dealing with and that's where you want your focus to be.

[Zuku42]

I don't know if you'll end up seeing this reply with such an old post. But I wanted to thank everyone for their responses, they were all helpful and informative. I've done a lot of thinking about things and come to a couple conclusions.

I realized first that it wouldn't really make a difference if I got a diagnosis, since it would really just be for my own information. I also looked a lot at the facts of the diagnosis that I was thinking about. I re-took a good handful of online self-tests. I score as definitely showing autistic traits and I think I'm quite high on masking in the RAADS-R. I was kinda surprised by the results, and I've thought about em a decent bit.

The thing I always run into with things like the DSM is that they remind you that diagnosis depends on whether it's better explained by something else or not. For a long time, I've noticed that entangled with my ADHD and memory is what I can best describe as maybe ... dissociation? I've heard that dissociation can be a symptom of autism, but the thing is that I feel like my symptoms can come and go.

i'm currently taking a full class-load and working full-time, which has been overwhelming, and things have been fraying at the edges. I'm making it through though, don't worry ^_^ But I think I've gotten a little insight from seeing how I fall apart, haha.

I noticed that when my memory is worse from stress/anxiety/mental hygiene, I sometimes have a short spell where something that is familiar, just feels like it's not. There's lots of anecdotes I could bore you with, but I'll spare you =P

It's probably high time I do some looking and find a therapist, now that I know more what I want out of it. You all were helpful with that. I thought about what I wanted to change and what I wanted help with and it really helped me sort a lot out. I figure that this would be a good next step a since it's worthwhile either way. Thanks again for helping me that part out!