Maybe it’s not actually that big of a deal...

[cjnolet]

So I ended up here after a lifetime of being different. I found out I was different around the age of two, on my birthday actually, when it came time to open gifts and the first gift I opened was a bubble lawnmower. We still have the home video of that moment. Immediate hyper focus, tuned out the rest of the world, and drove that lawnmower around for the rest of the party. In the video you can hear people telling me that I have other gifts to open and other things to do, but I didn’t care. That lawnmower is what I wanted to do and that was stimulating to me at the time.

That moment pretty much sums up how he next 32 years have gone for me. In some ways it’s been a struggle. Getting through grade school wasn’t easy but while other kids did the school thing and often played when they got home, I did the school thing and often obsessed over my hobbies when I got home. It was always something, drawing pictures to sell to neighbors, starring bracelet businesses in my elementary school, obsession over computer hacking, building websites, whatever it was, it often occupied my brain 80% of the time. Mind you the other 20% was often consumed with thoughts necessary for body function.

So fast forward through a rough patch of teenage years, through my 20s, 3 different college degrees and into my 30s. I have a wife and kids now. I still hyper focus. My poor wife puts up with it but has finally been able to express her discontent with it alll. It’s not that she’s not happy that my brain works the way it does. She loves my music, my passion for things, and most of all the fact that I’ve been able to pay for a house for us and put food on the table.

So in the past 2 years, I’ve gone through a short dj career spinning at 3 different clubs, a software startup with an almost fully complete MVP for investors, and now into PHD research. My hyperactivity and need for stimulation has put quite a strain on my abilities to be as a father and husband as I can be.

So last year, after I jumped from my side job as a dj (and just randomly quit one day when I got bored) into the startup, which I quit for the same reason, I realized maybe there’s something wrong and I need help. I started seeing a therapist. He had me question everything I was doing l, everything I though, every value I had. I went from a fairly confident extroverted professional to a self deprecating introvert that needed desperately to feel liked. I decluttered my house with my wife, we planned a 3rd child (which is now on the way), got into mindfulness training . But this wasn’t right. That isn’t me. I spent hours on the phone with my wife and mom saying really silly things about how I felt about the world and why I’ve always been so wrong and “horrible me....” I’ve not a self deprecating person. Often times I’m too busy to do that.

So this was all pre adhd diagnosis. I had been diagnosed as a kid but the most I knew about it was that my mom told me I can’t pay attention for shit. I just figured I grew out of it. Come to find out, it stayed with me to adult hood and my obsessions are actually caused by it.

But here’s the thing. Who the fuck is anybody else to say that’s a bad thing? My mind locks onto stimulating things. As a computer scientist, it’s gained me quite a reputation for solving problems that most non-adhd just don’t have the focus nor the capacity to solve. I’ve truly reached flow many times I’m in my life as a result of the way my brain is and I have had a very successful career doing what I’m good at- aiming my brain towards extremely hard problems and knocking the solutions out of the park.

So who the hell is a therapist or anybody else to tell me I’m wrong? So my wife and I agree that I need to work harder on being present with them, something that I have certainly been working on. But who the hell is someone to make me out to be “mentally ill” when Im able to do things others just can’t. I think the real problem is the stigma, not the disorder. Sure there’s been many challenges along my path and if I was given the ability to make excuses growing up, I’d likely have allowed those barriers to hold me back. But being ignorant to the fact that I really did think so much differently than everyone else, I just assumed those challenges were normal parts of growing up.

I absolutely refuse to allow the stigma associated with this disorder to make me feel like any less of an individual. I am capable, I am wonderful. And so is everyone else with this condition. Don’t let anybody make you think ur just a product of a bad brain. If we were alive at a different time, like 2000 years ago, we would be the naturally born entrepreneurs, innovators, dreamers. Our school system today is meant to cater too much to the averages and not enough to the Einstein’s. I absolutely refuse to let anyone break me down anymore.

I’ve since stopped this shit show that was my therapy and I will continue to succeed the way I’ve always known how- by using the unique tools God has given me and listening to what the universe has in store!

[Hidden]

I see your point, but I don’t feel like Einstein and I think people 2000 years ago would have done just fine without people like us. ADHD is a developmental disorder. You maybe very lucky to be very smart. I’m not as smart as you are, but I’m not stupid, I have a plethora of knowledge in my head, but it’s just in my head. I’m not doing anything with it. Things come in my head, but not much gets out. This even hampers my creativity. I don’t really hyperfocus, it’s more like I can’t shift my attention to what I need to shift my attention to, so I ignore it. But we are all different with different problems.

[cjnolet in reply to Hidden]

I understand. The frustration I’m sharing in this post comes from a lifetime of being different and trying to focus on my own strengths rather than always having to allow my differences to be a negative thing. I found myself in therapy today talking with someone who’s projecting their perception of adhd on me and it really made me feel stigmatized and dehumanized. In short, it’s pretty humiliating, actually.

I say back for a moment to look at who I am and who I’ve always been. Maybe to some that might appear to arrogant, to me, it’s more like being kind to myself and giving myself the credit I deserve (which I often don’t do enough of). I have definitely noticed “superpower” tendencies throughout my life. MAybe that’s a product of the hyperactivity; I’m not completely sure. What I do know is that I have an infectious energy that spreads to people around me and it often results in me having crazy visions and others following along for the ride. It’s put me in the lead in many situations in my life and I’ve ultimately allowed myself to become stigmatized and give up on myself, telling myself I’m not worth a damn and shouldn’t be in the position I’m in. Reality is, I need to be more kind to myself and give credit where credit is due. You can me smart, and for that I do express my kindness thanks, but I don’t feel very smart. People, especially introverted engineers at work, all have their own problems and often my inability to socialize with a snappy wit like everyone else puts me in a position where I’m constantly reminded that I’m different, for better or for worse.

I’m beginning to realize it might actually be for better, if I thought exactly the same as everyone else, Id be quite bored. I prefer to think the way I do because it provides me a way to perceive the world through my own lens, to be a visionary rather than follow the status quo. Whether that ever results in something that actually changes the world is irrelevant. I’m along for the ride either way.

[Gabesmom594 in reply to Hidden]

Ellapony, I definitely relate to what you're saying. Cjnolet is very lucky to be the way he is. He is able to make it work for him and that is true gift. I have so many ideas that pop in my head of things to make and things to do but the ideas seldom materialize. I love to build things, especially to upcycle items that would be tossed into something useful and beautiful. I love doing this but sometimes a project that should take an hour ends up taking a month. It is what it is though.

[cjnolet in reply to Gabesmom594]

I definitely agree with your last statement. It takes me longer to do most things than others as well. My mother growing up would call me "leo the late bloomer". The pattern I demonstrated was that while all the other kids would learn something quickly and move on, I'd often have to figure it out on my own because I missed the "message" that the other students got, from my inattentiveness.

I was diagnosed as a combined. And I'm still learning about how this neurological disorder has effected others in my life. I do deeply apologize if some of my posts seem a little insensitive- that's definitely not my intention. Rather, my mind doesn't stop thinking and when I have gotten to a point where I've drawn some conclusions for myself, I like to get them out and into the open. Perhaps as a sort of validation or a memoir for myself for a later time (to remember what types of things were going through my head). I think this might often be one of the reasons, as Hidden puts it, that I have such a high-pressure "word faucet" when talking to people I care about; like my wife, mother, and my two best friends.

Recent self-reflections have been causing me much pain- mostly because I have not been giving myself enough credit and it's been causing me to lose all self-confidence.

Thoughts go through my hyperactive mind at the speed of light most of the time. I find many of those thoughts to be very intellectually profound- as they generally have to do with deep thinking of the world around me and experiences I've had, in order to better understand them. For me, I think this causes a very scientific way of thinking, though sometimes a small piece of confirmation bias can really throw a seemingly objective interpretation of the world into nothing more than a random spiral into the Neverland of Corey's imagination. All the thoughts end up getting jumbled up, I believe this happens because of assumptions.

Hyper-focusing on my diagnosis have caused much of the pain, because it's had me questioning too many insignificant details about the way I am. In some ways, I find it's made me stronger by introspecting my behavior and my surroundings. In other ways, I think it's become more of a mere distraction and has been taking from other, more important, things, like having confidence in myself in order to man my household and give my wife & kids the proper attention.

Not sure if this makes sense. I do apologize if any of my ramblings are offensive to you guys. I'm also gaining an understanding of the larger population that suffer from this condition and I'm finding, through your comments, that my own assumptions based on the way I think, don't always translate to everyone else.

[icDavey in reply to cjnolet]

Don't make trouble for yourself that isn't there. But I have to ask, if you work so much more slowly than others, how the heck do you accomplish so much? I envy your accomplishments. To what do you credit them? Forget about thinking of ideas. The follow-up, focus and energy are not typical. I think you should analyze the difference between you and other ADDers and write a book of advice.

[cjnolet in reply to icDavey]

I’m quickly realizing that much of the hyperfocus might have more to do with the hyperactive/impulsive component than with the inattentive component.

My main difference is that when I go on these “stimulation binges” , they tend to last for 8 months to a year. I’ll consume myself so deeply with them that many people who may meet me for the first time during that period may just assume I’ve been into that subject/topic for my whole life. It’s not ALWAYS a “8 months and never again” and often it’ll be more like “8 months and crank it up a notch” when it’s no longer stimulating.

Two reasons I mention being slower learning than others and still being able to do stuff is because of the hyperactivity and hyperfocus- 1) while others without adhd would tend to shift their focus on thngs more important/acceptable at any given moment, I’d just as soon focus on the same stimulating topic without any shift for the entire 8 month binge, if I was able (without any other responsibilibies). 2) it takes me longer to learn the specific details of something so that they become a “science” but once I have them down, the hyperactivity often does allow me to rely on my creativity and intuition in order to crank stuff out with impeccable speed. I have sometimes used the example that “I’m not any smarter than anyone else, just more hyperactive, so if I can fail 100 times before someone else has even tried once, I have the advantage of speed.” Perhaps this is an Edison way of approaching problem? Whatever it is, I find it very pragmatic and any creative mind with a mild intelligence would be bound to learn something just from the shear processs of doing, failing, doing again, failing again, repeat.

This does cause people around me a little anguish when they do require my attention. Even though I do tend to take longer learning things In general, the shear amount of focus that I apply to things of interest during that period allows me to work more frequently on those things than other things. Based on frequency alone, if I spent 10x the time focusing on the same task as someone with non-adhd focus, I will surely appear to make more progress than them in a shorter period. This is just based solely on the fact that while others have completely shifted their focus, I’m still going hard at whatever it is that’s stimulating me. Those two things- an inability to control my focus and stimulation chasing, are both my gift and curse and I always thought they defined the combined type of adhd.

That’s the part that walks the line between an illness and a gift and that’s the reason I seeked help to begin with. I’m working with my wife and kids to be less irritable and gain better tools to give them the attention they need. It’s not that I’m never physically present for them, I do stuff with them and they do get a lot of my time.

A good example, we went on a long family walk today. Wow, we walked about 5 miles together. But most of the time, I was in la la land, thinking about a series of stimulating learning tools that I want to build for kids with ADHD to help them gain an advantage during their grade school years by giving them a stimulating way to learn what they might be missing in school. Since the common school system doesn’t seem to really provide what these kids need, and they are often missing important details that puts them at the same level as other students, I feel like having tools for them to learn, that take into account the unique differences in the way their brains work, would be a natural next step in educational products.

Problem is, in my head I’ve mapped everything out from a series of really stimulating board games to help them learn history, to math and science and reading/writing tools. During that period, I’m not paying attention whatsoever to the world around me, it’s like my body is on autopilot and is using only enough of the rest of my brain in order to function physically. So was I really present during that time? If my child Was to get hurt, I’d have physically noticed and been able to shift my attention but often during this period, of I’m conversing with someone, it would surely have been about the topic of my hyperfocus.

My wife appreciates the way I am because I’m putting food on the table. But at the same time it is extremely hard to turn the stuff off. More than anything, it’s the irritability of being forced to shift my hyperfocus that makes me hard to deal with, I believe. Because I’m inattentive to the social temperature of my surrounds a lot of the time, I have a tendency to have somewhat of a short fuse. Not necessarily in an abusive way, but I’ll do what I can to get my brain back into stimulation mode and distractions can become annoyance. Obviously I don’t ask to be this way, but I’ve lived with this brain for 34 years now. Seems strikingly similar to that 2 year old tuning the world out to play with his bubble lawnmower. The difference is that now I have people to be responsible for.

[icDavey in reply to cjnolet]

Sounds like you have a lot of it figured out. It also sounds like medication could be the key. Make sure you are taking ENOUGH! The system can be so stingy with worrying about abuse and all. Medication and mindfullness. And build some stimulation into your marriage so you have more to hyperfocus on there. BEWARE. Stimulation seekers tend to nurture conflict around them to "keep things interesting". By the way, I am 63, not diagnosed til 45. Also wondering.....do others seem to think that you "ask too many questions"?

[cjnolet in reply to icDavey]

Well. I’m not sure if others think that. I am an extrovert and I have a tendency to dominate conversations with people I feel comfortable talking to. Otherwise, I think I tend to validate my thoughts quite a bit with people. Many times that means stuff I’m researching at work and many times it turns out the people around me have no idea what I’m talking about.

[icDavey in reply to cjnolet]

I have read your longest post more completely now. And what I am most struck by is two things that are related. You do need to be more forgiving of your own foibles. That is true for many of us. It's true for many of everybody. But just because you need to be forgiving, it doesn't mean you need to stop looking. I know self-reflection can be painful. I know there's got to be a temptation to look away. But you are learning to cope with your strengths and weaknesses. ."Know thyself", as Plato said. You are sensitive, thoughtful, and articulate. None of those are faults. You make such a big deal out of being different. I recently saw an article from a psychology magazine talking about a particular study,. The headline was"it's official, we are all weird".

Life is hard. It's hard for everyone. There is no escaping it. You sound like you are coping quite well. Be forgiving of yourself. Keep up your introspection. And love your wife and kids. And you will do just fine.

[HadEnuf in reply to Hidden]

Ironically, people a few thousand years further back would probably have been wiped off the face of the planet, without “us”: the agricultural revolution changed human living conditions that much. When spotting the next meal or an isolated, hidden attacker out of the corner of one's eye ceases to become the singular, crucial, survival skill, the selection pressure favoring a tendency to shift attention under minimal stimulus very nearly vanishes.

That most of the selection pressure against “us”, at present, is social (rather than physical) probably accounts for our not having vanished, along with our contribution to the survival of the species in times of crisis. (The very “deficiencies” that hamper our living in a sedentary culture frequently enable us to help others through emergencies that leave them at best bewildered: one friend's story of a neurotypical EMT trainee's abject failure at triage in a disaster situation is a particularly stark illustration.)

The historic hostility of “modern civilization” toward aboriginal cultures that—among other factors—enshrined a sense of time more like that associated with ADHD neurotypes and that held less social orientation toward expectation and predictability is frightfully telling, to put it extremely (perhaps misleadingly) mildly.

In point of fact, much of our “disorder” lies in other's unwillingness to accept our non-conformance with their own comfort. This seems rather codependent of the rest of the human race; but it's never been difficult to see we live in a culture that inculcates codependency at little or no benefit to most but at great benefit to a few who derive substantial wealth and power from control of others without regard to those others' well-being. (Yes, I am attributing the “dark triad” trait of non-empathy to the majority of those who style themselves “leaders” in order to act as rulers: there are entire, long-standing schools of social and political thought predicated essentially on this premise.)

In reality, the toxic culture surrounding us is at least as deserving of being labeled, “mentally ill”, for intolerance and willingness to systematically undermine if not attack anything different. As a race, humanity is little better than chickens pecking to death any member of their flock on which a spot of blood might fall; and there is very little difference between trying to “cure” us by making us like others and the “kill the Indian, save the man” policy of the deeply abusive “normal schools” that perpetrated cultural genocide in the United States of America.

That doesn't mean we don't need to find ways of coping with life in a world fine-tuned to a vast majority who seem to require predictable fulfillment of expectation and thoughtless safety. It does mean we need to reject the notion we are somehow “wrong” or “defective”, rather than simply “different”.

Yes, we have a tougher path to walk and we can't expect those without a common frame of reference to be able to make that any easier for us, as they can for one another; but we can't afford not to demand they get out of our way and let us walk the path to which we were born, rather than trying to force us to walk theirs in its stead, simply because they cannot imagine a way other than their own.

We never had the option of such blindness: while I may regret our sufferings, I am tempted to pity their unawareness.

[Hidden in reply to HadEnuf]

HadEnuf, I have to say, you are deep. It will take me awhile to digest what you wrote here. Honestly. But then again, does it matter now if we were the saviors of civilization some tens of thousands years ago, if we can’t function in society at the present? There were other humanoids around in those times and they are not around anymore, they got extinct. Civilization is not going to go backwards to hunting, unless maybe the whole system will collapse, but other than that we have to fight against stigma ourselves. I don’t think arguing about being a functional hunter in a digital society is going to help diffuse stigma.

[HadEnuf in reply to Hidden]

Civilization, historically, has a habit of collapsing: in the long run, it's not a question of whether it will go backward, but when and to what degree. Stigma is a product of closed minds and willful ignorance: not to fight it—along with all ignorance—is to doom a deeper and earlier collapse. Note all I am observing, here, is history's tendency toward repetition.

The skills that served our species in those earlier times transfer, or our type would be extinct, already: thousands of generations since the advent of agriculture would have been more than enough to accomplish this. That doesn't mean others are likely to recognize this skill in play; and at times we all pay sorely, as a result.

In my case, this applies to recognizing risks others disregard unconsciously. Those more committed to a plan than to the goal it serves (generally true of the majority population, who tend to distinguish poorly between the two) will often try to dismiss my caution as perfectionism—and do so at their peril, because I am right more often than I would like.

I understand, they deal continually with egg-headed perfectionists: they make the mistake of assuming, by virtue of my profession, I am another of those, rather than the hard-boiled, hard-headed realist I am—usually, more committed to the goal than anyone else (if only because I do not confuse it with the plan) but quicker to see when plan and goal have diverged.

To me, that no plan survives contact with reality is more than words, or even a complaint: it's reason to be ready to modify the plan at any time—not a very popular position in the neurotypical world, but my heredity denies me the luxury of subscribing to its comforting illusions.

I am also told frequently to be less thorough (for the sake of speed to protect a plan) than experience has taught me to be—often through harsh lessons they want to pretend were unlikely. A good way to hear crickets is to ask, “Why, then, have I experienced so many?” The expression when someone considers how often they may have denied the contribution of undue haste to costly mistakes is not a pretty one.

Thanks, I will do what I know won't screw everyone over: if they want to screw me over in return for not doing the like to them, I suppose that's their prerogative.

Note that none of this is about excuses: there aren't any, on either side of the question—all that matters is how to use what we have at our disposal, most effectively, without letting ignorant preconceptions get in the way.

Anything less is simply an idiotic waste we can't afford, as a species: our position on this planet is too precarious for us to be stupid—and nature can happily replace us without ever missing a beat.

[HadEnuf in reply to HadEnuf]

In shorter terms, society's failure to make the best of what we have to offer—instead of making everyone miserable trying to force-fit us into the wrong mold—is a pathetic and disgraceful waste, for which we all pay, every day.

[Hidden in reply to HadEnuf]

I see you point HadEnuf and largely agree with you. But I’m just a person trying to hold my life together. I don’t have the any skills to solve problem as large as you present. I can’t even hold my own little life together. This is too big of a scale for me to think of.

[HadEnuf in reply to Hidden]

It's not a problem for one person to solve: it's a problem for an entire culture in need of healing itself, from within.

All we can do is nudge those who contribute to the culture (as every one of us does) in the best direction we know how.

Doesn't make it any easier that this includes nudging ourselves!

[Hidden]

Cjnolet, I really like you. I want to say that. I was by no means trying to discredit you in any way. ADHD affects us all differently and some of us have other conditions that affect our ADHD conditions. I love the input and honesty that you contribute here. I didn’t mean to sound like a defiant jerk. LoL. But that can be a problem when we write, you can’t hear my voice. You truly sound like you are very smart. I am truly not as smart as you are and that is just a fact. I also scored very high on the ADHD assessment chart, so I’m rather dysfunctional in that way. I also have not stared taking medication yet, but I finally have an appointment with the psychiatrist on Monday. You do have a lot going for you and I think that is a great thing. You are also quite a bit younger than I am. When I was younger I was quite driven to distraction, (I’m not saying that you are, but that is what I did with my time and I was all over the place, because I didn’t know any better) I didn’t see it then, but looking back, I can clearly see that I was. I honestly wish zoning out was a bit more like hyperfocus, I actually like to call it that, but in reality for me, it just feels like I’m zoning everything out that I should be able to shift my focus on. You are not offensive at all. You are sharing your experience. God knows that we do share the word faucet 😂😉

[icDavey]

You are one of the luckier ones whose symptoms manifest as marginally acceptable personality defects. Beyond that, you have turned it all to advantage. Good for you!

Researcher Russell Barkley answers the question, "How do we draw the line between an unusual personality and a treatable disorder?" by saying simply, "When harm is incurred." It really is that simple. It sound like your wonderful wife may have incurred some harm. It might be a good idea to check in with the kids to see how they feel. You seem to be fine and dandy!

So long as life is working the way you want it to, there is no point in "borrowing trouble". Please be sure that you are not in denial able harm that you are experiencing. Consider that some moderate medication treatment might actually improve your performance by increasing your concentration and self disciple. Otherwise, if it ain't broke, don't fix it!

[cjnolet in reply to icDavey]

IcDavey,

You are very right. My wife and kids are what prompted me to seek treatment to begin with. But at the same time, I think I was beating myself up way too much about small things and it got it the point where it wasn’t making anything better anymore. I do things with the kids, like playing games, talking about their day, etc but you are totally right, i often lack that thought process of asking people how they feel and diving into their own emotions. I think this is really the personality diffference. It’s not that I don’t have empathy, it’s that it never crosses my mind, amidst all the other crap floating around in there.

I am still taking vyvanse for now. My wife does mention that I’m a little more pleasant and less anxious and irritable on it. Im also seeking out an ADHD coach- I’ve found a licensed professional who also has the hyperactive/impulsive adhd diagnosis. I feel this might be more beneficial than the typical non-adhd therapist because they have the ability to understand, very deeply, the way I think.

I’ve spent a lot of my life oblivious to my surroundings and still managed to find a way to be successful in my career. I think it was a shock to begin feeling like some condemned pile of crap with a learning disability. Immediately my therapy seasons felt like I was being put in a box and labeled and assumptions were being made about my abilities (and disabilities). I don’t think that part was necessary, really. Maybe im in denial, but I can never think of my brain as a disability. Maybe I’m just thinking about it too much, as usual.

[icDavey in reply to cjnolet]

You sound a lot like me - except I am also dragged down by depression which saps my energy. Very analytical, very self aware and very sensitive. Count that wife as a blessing. Mine just left after 28 years together and at least partly because of the effects of my symptoms on her. Treasure her and do everything you can to make her life soft and comfortable. You seem less irritable. Also a symptom of mine. Try to be patient and gentle with yourself. It is frustrating to forget, to always be behind and to miss those social cues that always get you in trouble - but you are doing the best you can. Regarding the counselor, perhaps marriage counseling with an ADHD emphasis would be most useful. Help her understand you and help you understand how you affect her. The relationships of an ADHDer is always fraught. Don't under-emphasize it. Blessings and good luck.