My Austistic-ADHD 33 year old daughter lives with a boyfriend who is devoted, and works, but cannot support her. We pay half of her rent and food. We have also paid for various courses (drama teaching, ESL, life coaching) so that she can do something productive but she says she wouldn't earn enough to make it worthwhile, and that all she can manage to do is keep house. She keeps asking me to lower my expectations. Recently she has also been physically unwell. Mostly sharp stabbing pains in her ribs and back. Tests for gallstones and other organic problems have come back normal. (She has had a lot of recent UTI's and been on a lot of antibiotics which might contribute.) She is also undergoing therapy for past sexual assaults and trauma going back to her teen years. She wanted me to be very involved and hear all the details but when I tried to explain my perspective on one of the events she hung up in horror and then wrote to say she threw up repeatedly. She has not spoken to me since. Her boyfriend called to tell me that communication from me is "not safe", that my thinking is "old-fashioned" and I should look into therapy myself so I can fully comprehend and support her in her pain. It's been six weeks now. She has changed her bank password. We're still sending money to pay the bills. Every penny she has is from us. Her dad's health isn't great (heart) and she hasn't so much as sent a text to ask how he's doing, though she purports to love him very much. I have sent her the occasional "I love you" notes on Whatsapp, but she hasn't responded. I hate the idea she is playing the victim as victimhood surely begets more of the same. The trouble is if she is now branding herself chronically ill AND traumatised (partly by me, apparently) that seems a recipe for life avoidance. What I have read in several articles is that autistic females are much more likely to be targeted for sexual assault as they may unintentionally give off a vulnerable signal, and also often have a delayed response to danger. Sort of like Fight, Flight and Freeze. I admit I probably didn't "protect" her enough, but it wasn't deliberate. I had no idea she was autistic or more likely to make poor decisions. Anyone else caught up in this Blame Game? Any insights or advice welcome.
Adult daughter refusing to speak to us - CHADD's ADHD Pare...
Adult daughter refusing to speak to us
I’m actually the kid in a similar situation. i have had to go no contact with my mom due to ptsd and her traumatizing me (she trafficked me, and still pressures me to do things like that for money), on top of my adhd and anxiety diagnoses and possible asd. Whenever I was in contact, it would really mess up my mental health and I insist on being the best parent for my kid. To do that, I need no contact. I can imagine how it can be confusing for you, but respecting the no contact and getting yourself mental health help my be beneficial, especially just to process the pain of mostly losing your kid or having a kid with these disabilities. My apologies about her dad, I can imagine how tough that is.has he tried to reach out to her?
I work in special education. Asd has a wide range of behaviors, but the one that sticks out in your situation is perseveration. Although ptsd does have you cycle back to the trauma, it seems she perseverates on it and not on healing. It does take years of good counseling but she may be going no contact to try and heal some. Please respect that the best you can. Contact the boyfriend for a while. It is more likely she will come around if the boundaries are respected.
That being said, if her disability is as severe as you say, she needs to look into getting social security disability (if she’s in the US). This will allow her to earn her own money and be more independent, and still have time for her mental health. It sounds like she also has ptsd, and should look into that diagnosis too. Kudos to you for researching about her asd, but make sure they are always scholarly. There are organizations that believe that asd can be “cured”, even though it’s got genetic components.
Thanks for this insight!I appreciate it very much, as it is very important to to have thee view from someone diagnosed, and you have a wealth of information. It is helpful to me.
Hi Manamichi, Thanks for the thoughful reply and I'm so sorry about your own situation. Though it sounds a lot more extreme than ours. Yes, she does have ptsd. And she has complex, combined ADHD (diagnosed a few years ago) and traits of ASD. We have always listened, encouraged, commiserated, tried to offer opportunities, paid for courses, bought her anything she felt she might need (Apple watch, etc.) and now mostly feel tired and confused. She cut us off very abruptly, without explanation. She has always said she is "resolution based" but I'm not feeling any desire to be so. Her Dad is almost 89. At what point is the person with ASD not just a bit responsible for becoming so self-absorbed they neglect others? I will look into her getting some government assistance but her changing her bank password seems ironic since she certainly isn't refusing our money.
Well… at her age, she should be not feeling like mom is managing her finances. So I get the password change. It’s possible she doesn’t want you to know some of her expenses. It is also possible that boyfriend is abusing her in a way that is cutting out connections to her friends and family. Be cautious on this though.
It is her choice whether or not to be in contact with you and dad. Unfortuantely pushing for the relationship could push her further away. Her responsibility will happen if dad passes away and she didn’t get to say goodbye. This is a natural consequence that may just have to happen.
She could be dealing with her own things and need space and talking with you seems to be triggering, even if all it is is a reminder that she is making poor decisions and doesn’t deserve your compassion. She may be feeling judged too though, which can also be triggering for those with ptsd.
Take this time to focus on you through counseling and if you feel you make progress with processing this, offer the opportunity to do counseling together. Although counseling with my mom didn’t go well, it does provide a safe opportunity to say your side of things and get hers.
Hope this helps with insight.
Hi Mamamichi (got it right this time) As far as feeling I'm managing her financing she has multiple learning disabilities (we were told when she was 12 she would never be able to live alone) and I have worked with her for years to get her understand how to work with the money she is given, gradually adding debit cards and in the last couple of years even a credit card with a low limit. I file and pay her taxes. I applied for and obtained a Disability Tax Credit for her. I have set her up a tax free savings account (meaning I funded it and chose the investments and have been managing it in the hopes of growing a nest egg for her future) and that's what she's now blocked me from. It's all very well to say she's at an age when she should be independent but every penny she has is family money. We've always been partners in this, so no idea what she's now been told, but I guess I know by whom. I have a feeling while she is gaining sympathy from her therapist she is not actually telling the whole story that she has always been completely supported. I never look at her personal accounts by the way, I just pay her a couple of thousand a month and leave her to do her own budgeting. But the saving account I do need access to.
As far as getting counseling myself, I don't think it's necessarily right for everyone. I know it's the new "go to" but I also know that if I talk to a therapist they will get "my version" just as her therapist is getting hers. It's so easy to blame. It's easy to think in black and white. I don't hear of a lot of therapists pointing out all the grey. I do read, study, meditate and offer unconditional love. I would consider doing counseling with her, and maybe that will happen in the future.
Goodness! The savings account was for a nest egg when you’re not there, and she has access to it now without your oversight? I wouldn’t even allow that for my kids when they are an adults. I would just save for them and give it if it’s needed, especially with the mental health. Now I see why you’re concerned. You have done well to try to teach these financial skills, but maybe it’s time to see what she does with it herself…
My brother will never fully be independent. He’s living off the state and social security. It’s because of him I get where she’s coming from and why she has no real money of her own. My brother is 44.
I can kind of see why you do t want to go to counseling… but if nothing else, it helps you process it. You are doing a good job with taking care of yourself even without counseling though.
I'm sorry about your brother. In Canada we're each allowed to have a tax free account. I have already have mine so I had to do hers in her own name. She has no idea how to choose shares or mutual funds, so I will have to try to get access again...when she's speaking to me again! Because we are giving her money she probably is not eligible for government support. I think family can only give 10k a year and she gets a lot more than that. I may set up a trust fund for her. (Another reason I distrust therapy is that it may encourage the person having the therapy to see themselves as abused or victimized. Perhaps this one is suggesting I haven't been sympathetic enough - though I feel I have poured it out. Then again the parents of special needs kids are bound to get empathy fatigue from time to time.) Have a good holiday weekend and thanks for all your thoughts.
Daughter in mid-twenties will not speak to us ( mom, dad) and this has been going on for two years. Towards the end of her choice to not speak with us, she was, and still is (she will text me once in a while) very angry at us; I tried to discuss this with her, but she only said that "we know what we did" and that we need therapy and when we get it together, then she will communicate with us. She got very abusive through phone calls before she stopped communicating with us, and texts no better. I am giving her the space she has requested. I have tried to do research as well, but I am looking up nothing specific, as I do not have any specific diagnosis. At first it was very difficult - no communication- but I have my boundaries too.People don't come with manuals. We do the best we can.
Hi Lllearn, Two years. I'm so sorry, how very, very hard. Everyone does things to hurt each other, often because we overreact out of fear and I know I have handled things badly when the child turns out to have Rejection Sensitivity and never, never forgets a criticism. I was mishandled by my parents on many occasions but actually I never blamed them. There were reasons for their choices, I tried to understand those, and I went on regarding them with affection and respect. It's almost as if the therapists that our daughter has seen (many) don't think to encourage her to see her own part in misunderstood situations. It's like she has a free behaviour ticket just because she has ASD. But I don't think any mental condition absolves us of behaving with love and consideration of others. Even if our loving perspective disappears from time to time, it can always be revived and rethought. Cutting someone off with no explanation or hope for better communication isn't okay. Are you saying you have no idea what her issue with you is?
First, let me thank everyone who already contributed to this thread. It feels to me like parents of adult children are a minority in this group, and our issues are different. So many experiences shared in this thread are exactly what I have been going through. It's so helpful to know I am not alone. I wish diagnosis in mental illness was more straightforward. It takes so long to find out what's going on, and even then, it seems like you're not sure. My own daughter's diagnosis has changed over and over since around 2015 when we first became aware she was struggling with anxiety and depression. Eventually she was diagnosed as ADHD. I believe she and her dad and I are all somewhere on the autism spectrum, though none of us have been diagnosed as such.
Mamaichl, it was helpful to hear your perspective. Thank you for sharing with us.
My daughter is in a relationship with someone who also sees her dad and I as the problem and reinforces that idea. I was close to my daughter until the partner stepped into the picture. So it's really hard for me to know how much of the no contact demands are really coming from my daughter vs the partner vs a counselor putting unhealthy ideas in her head (the no contact request came just after a shift to a new counselor and was also attributed to the counselor's advice).
My strategy from the beginning was to remain consistent. I send an email every week with a family update and I love you message. I almost never get a response. But my goal has been to show that we are continuing to live our lives, seeking healthy ways of being happy (we're all into good food and hobbies in a big way). Home still exists, it's hear for her if/when she decides to come back to us in some form.
I kind of freaked out when this no contact thing first started, though. I felt like I didn't even know if she was still alive or what was happening. At some point I called the police in her area to do a wellness check -- and they said she was fine but didn't want contact with us. I still kept up my emails. I was afraid to just fly out to see her. I didn't even know if she was really still living in the same place. Then this past October I just got on a plane, flew out to where she lives, and showed up on her doorstep. (She was angry that I came unannounced, but I was afraid if I told her when I was coming she would hide.) The partner answered the door, said "oh, it's our nightmare", and slammed the door on my face. Of course I cried my eyes out there and then. But then I pulled myself together and treated myself to a visit to the local yarn store (I'm a knitter!) And while I was there she texted and said she would talk to me over zoom with her counselor present. During that conversation I was able to confirm that she's okay, she has health insurance, she's taking her meds, and she wants the regular emails though she said she wouldn't always respond (that's an understatement!!).
I feel like things got slightly better after the visit. She has some contact with some other relatives. I'm putting together a care package for her upcoming bday. About once a month I get a two liner email. The other day I got two two liners in the same day -- I felt like the richest person in the world.
I guess what I feel like I have learned is that -- yes, this is horrible and painful, but there's not a lot I can do to change it, especially since she is an adult. I feel like if the email is just a regular part of my routine, I can do that thing out of duty rather than trying to get something back that I know I won't get. So then I am not so hurt or disappointed with the effect. And I can continue to seek health on my own side.
Hi WoollyMammoth, Thanks for your thoughts! I am also trying to "take the high road". I sent her a Valentine picture, Easter picture etc. on WhatsApp. I can see that she sees them. I am not asking her for contact. She doesn't hit a thumbs up or heart or anything in reply, but I know she's there, and I will continue to do that. She told her boyfriend to tell me that all communication must go through him. (He's only 25, she's 33 - and he's nice enough but rigidly sharing his generation's belief they have all the answers. ) ("Youth is the age that has no pity" etc.) At which point he told me I should look into therapy, that I didn't understand the "hell" she was going through. I said I would like to be included in her journey, but he said my opinions were not "safe." ) Well, I've done the heavy lifting for thirty years so I will take a break. You said " My own daughter's diagnosis has changed over and over since around 2015 when we first became aware she was struggling with anxiety and depression." Yup, us too, we've had bi-polar, BPD etc. Finally ADHD with ASD components. Like you, her Dad and I are living happy, fulfilled lives together. It's just that he's 88 and has had 5 stents and open heart surgery and had a subsequent small heart attack in the past year. She knows this. I have no idea how she will react when we come to Canada this summer. Your tale of being humiliated on their doorstep is heart breaking. Why can't their therapists say "yes, you're suffering, you need to heal, but there' no need to be cruel?" Why is there no perspective on what's important in life? You're coping brilliantly given the awfulness of it all and I will get there. I also need to protect my health. I know I will be facing grief as a widow sooner or later and that will be hard enough.
I'm very sorry to hear about the expectation of widowhood. Sometimes I feel like my husband is all I really have left of family, and I hate the thought that I could lose him someday.
Hi and hope your holiday weekend is peaceful. I have been with my husband 45 years and I'm 15 years younger. It's hard to finally be in the position we both knew would come. Our daughter knows this and it seems hugely selfish she has chosen this moment to retreat from showing any love. May I ask what dire judgement has been made regarding your parenting? I'm still waiting to hear the full blast on mine. She's been criticizing me for this and that increasingly over the last few years but I think her current trauma therapy may be suggesting some actual neglect or emotional abuse. That's my big distrust of therapy. It can so easily favour and reinforce the individual having the therapy.
I'm so sorry you're going through this. Hopefully she comes around and becomes understanding.. some people have a hard time opening up or have trust issues after traumatic life events. I will pray for both of you! I hope it gets better.
I want to share that your daughter can get support from DOR department of rehabilitation contact your local office.
Heart-breaking to hear these stories that you, along with others, have so eloquently shared. Mental illness and a difficult personality seem to have gotten in the way of your relationship with your daughter (same as WM123). It is painful and sad and not what anyone thinks life with be like with a grown child.
Joshua Coleman is a psychologist and researcher who has written in depth about these types of estrangements, and says that they are becoming more common because of cultural shifts in expectations for the younger generations. The current climate focuses on personal empowerment of individual feelings, and any challenge to them is seen as invalidating and the person is automatically "toxic." There is no tolerance for differing ideas or imperfection. I think there are support groups for parents going through this type of thing. You are not alone. If possible, focus on the beauty in your own life. I like what WM123 said about being a consistent presence. Accept you don't have control but do what you feel is important in fulfilling what role as a parent that you can.
Thank you for that bit of 'validation' for a clumsy but well-meaning parent. My parents were fairly peculiar in their way, but I never thought to judge them. I think you're bang on about generational expectations. I will have a look at Joshua Coleman.
you need to get support immediately- not “ understand” your daughter but to help you navigate this difficult situation. Yes, unfortunately, Autistic and ADHD have a much higher sexual assault rates - Please find a therapist with experience in this area- so you can respond appropriately. You yourself most likely have some PTSD too. This isn’t typical failure to launch issues. Your daughter is an adult she should go to social services immediately. From mental health counseling to job coaching programs. If her issues are so serious she could apply for social security disability.
Thanks! I have been watching videos of Dr. Joshua Coleman and he has very supportive, practical advice, and sadly documents how common all this estrangement is and how many "sobbing parents" he sees. Daughter is in therapy, hopefully not too one sided, depends on what she tells them, I guess. But, yes, I may look into a bit of therapy support as well.
Hi. Everyone else is speaking from a parent's perspective that a child has done no-contact. Let me tell you my side from a child's perspective.
I am abused by my mom growing up, and I only realized this through therapy and through my own research. I had been conditioned that everything my mom did was FOR me, and how she was still supporting me at that time. Your post was very triggering, as much as you blame her for playing the victim, you are playing yourself as the victim as well, a typical thing my mom would also do.
Your daughter is finally respecting her own boundaries, and her bf is trying to protect her from you.
1. It doesn't matter if at any point in time of when you found out she was autistic and needed extra care. As a parent, you MAKE SURE your child is never in any kind of danger if you can help it, at any age. Not taking the responsibility in your part and nonchalantly saying you "probably didn't 'protect' her enough" is awful. Because with that sentence, you're still not admitting that you are in any point wrong, at all. The word "probably", and in quotation "protect", and an addition of an excuse "but it wasn't deliberate" is top notch narcissistic behavior.
2. You wanted to reach out and have communication back with her. She is open to it and LAID OUT HER TERMS. Did you take any positive step towards trying to meet those (and again, accepting that you may also need therapy, not just her) in order to facilitate a quicker reunion between you both? No, you didn't, because if you were like my mom, who is btw, a narcissist, you would not even consider going into therapy. I mentioned in desperation when I was younger that she should get seen. She scoffed and said I'm the one that needs to be seen, not her. Other people also have told her that. So if ANYONE ELSE had told you you have to go therapy for your own issues and you brushed them away, that's a red flag for me.
3. My mom expected that I SHOULD need her for everything in my life, and she's the only reason I'm alive and can do the things I am doing (like how you say her bf cannot support her, she has zero skills, and you send her more money than is required).
4. From a child's perspective that has been no-contact (NC), I can tell you that if a child needs to have NC with you, she has definitely reached her limits. I was at the point of having nightmares just from the simplest "hi hello" texts from my mom. I couldn't open the messages when I traced the reason why I had been having nightmares with her in it too the messages/emails I have been receiving from her. We wish that it would be better too. I WANT my mom to be there for me, like all the other moms other people have. But I just can't, I have to protect myself. I have to protect my own mental health. I might have nightmares from this post being triggering tonight. I would dream that my mom nonchalantly said one of my daughters is "down there", pointing to under the water when an insane amount of flood flooded the whole town... I asked her why, and she answered, "Well, she couldn't hold on and she just went down." in my dream, her and my other daughter were holding on to a floating log. The daughter that couldn't hold on has a few health problems and isn't as strong, but is a very intelligent and immensely patient and caring child. I screamed in anguish in my dream and woke myself up from my cry. I'm writing this now and really FEEL the intensity of that dream. And I've had many more dreams of her hurting my children, and it always happened after any contact with her. We are continents apart, and she still had that effect on me!
5. These are the things you may be doing to your child that she needed to be away from you. You don't need to understand her side if you really want to have contact with her. She will give you a try, but only if you also do your part of going into therapy yourself.
I know accepting that YOU need therapy is ballistic. But for any normal mom, they'd go and do whatever needs to be done to have their baby back. Mine wouldn't. So I still haven't kept in touch. Everyone who doesn't understand will call me brutal all they want, but I understand, and have matured now. Nobody else who has not felt what I have felt and have not been in the same situation I've been couldn't even imagine what kind of mind abuse I had to go through and untangle. I now know better than to keep taking abuse and mistreatment from anyone - it doesn't matter if you're related or not. I KNOW I deserve to be treated with decency.
6. People couldn't relate to my situation because their experiences with their mother are the absolute most precious memories they have. I've had people growing up get mad at me because they think my mom is a good person - as a narcissistic, she is very good at being two-faced. She will be extra nice to others, but talk to others and complain to me about that person. She knew I will not rat her out, and even if I did, she had built an extremely strong facade of being a perfect mom, everyone else would think *I'm* a very ungrateful daughter/person, doing this to their poor mom. But I know the truth.
7. My mom was never affectionate to me, by the way. But she has always said that everything she did was for me - but it's not. Now I see that everything she did was to show to the world how she is a good mom to others by using worldly, outwardly things that people can see to take care of me, not me.
That's the perspective your daughter would probably say to you, but you wouldn't listen or believe it. At times when she is being vulnerable, you have to put yourself in her shoes. My mom couldn't do that, and still kept on blaming me. But enough is enough.
If you wish to see her again, for yours and her sake, start doing into the terms she laid out. I promise it will be good for yourself, your daughter, and for your relationship.
If you're unable to do that, I totally support her that NC would be good. Unless you'd take that step, be open to therapy (not just "a bit" or "look into it", but full on invested in it), and resolve any issues you may have before you try to contact her again. She may give you another try if you have changed. But that "change" isn't just a verbal "I have been to therapy, let's talk.", because once she sees you haven't changed, there's no more second chance. One can only take so much, I'm sorry.
(edited the comment everywhere after I clicked submit, so reread is you haven't reread.)
Um, I'm sorry you were so hurt in your family and I'm very sorry you were so triggered by my post. Our situation is perhaps more complicated than yours seems to have been. You and I not sitting down together so I don't think it's quite fair to sit in judgement on my past actions, and my fuller thoughts cannot be expressed in a short post. But I have made lists of the things I have done that have caused her pain. I do want to discuss them and take responsibility. She hasn't, BTW, laid out any terms for re-connecting, she only has said via her boyfriend that she would like to. I have told him that I will meet her with love and empathy. I HAVE been speaking with a therapist. I do not feel I am the victim. But I do believe we are responsible (to a large degree) for how we react to events. The Dalai Lama said: Pain is inevitable, suffering is optional. I wish all of us relief from our suffering with love, understanding and tolerance.
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