I have been reading a few articles about carbohydrates lately, and I definitely prefer to eat some complex carbs (wholegrain bread, wholemeal pasta and brown rice) as part of a balanced diet, rather than avoiding or restricting those food groups.
I have eaten this way for the past few years, and feel healthy for it.
I found an article which I like today, which I wanted to share with you, so here is the link:
I did manage to read it, thanks. I did some further reading around wheat free/dairy free stuff too. Generally interested in common sense stuff, such as suggestions about alternative grains, I do need to properly make the switch from white to brown rice... Good to get more tips about healthy food combinations
Yes, I agree it's good to look for common sense stuff. I try to have a balanced meal including carbs, fat, fibre and protein. I try to include good fats (like olive oil) but I also include plenty of dairy foods (cheese, yoghurt, milk) because here have been studies suggesting that eating at least 3 servings of calcium-rich dairy a day can reduce fat. Yoghurt-based bacteria have also been found to reduce the amount of fat the body can absorb during digestion. I particularly like natural Greek yoghurt.
I agree with you that about the importance of healthy food combinations, and that balancing the levels of fat, protein and complex carbs help to keep blood sugar stable, so I always try to ensure that any meal or snack has that healthy combination.
Look forward to catching up with you tomorrow at the weigh-in. Hope you're enjoying the weekend.
Hey Lowcal. As a vegetarian (except for a little fish) I've always been conscious of compensating for lack of protein in my diet and have a good awareness of basic nutrition, like having carb, protein and veg with every meal (I think my fats have generally come from dairy, olive oil, as well as nuts and seeds). I used to rely on cheese for my protein source (a lot of it!) but recently I was advised to cut out cheese in particular because of my stomach problems. I eventually cut out dairy altogether but now thinking of reintroducing things gradually. I'm finding that hard/mature cheese and probiotic yogurt seem to be the best ones to go for first, so I may follow that route. But re importance of calcium, I photographed a poster at the vegan tent at Glastonbury that listed good alternative sources of calcium as I was worried having recently completely cut that area out of my diet. Predictably it had green veg, nuts, seeds etc, but also a few things I wouldn't have guessed like baked beans, olives, cinnamon and oranges. It's good to just keep informing ourselves I think, otherwise you can risk falling into a rut and missing out important nutritional components. See you at the weigh in tomorrow, good luck
Good to know those alternative sources of calcium, Ruth. Thanks for listing those. I do have nuts and seeds on my porridge in the mornings, and really enjoy them. I also sprinkle on some cinnamon too.
I hope the probiotic yoghurt will be ok for you, apart from being a good source for the calcium, it appears to play a part in healing gut problems. Fage Total Greek yoghurt also has a good protein content.
Have a look at fermented foods as well, if you haven't already, as they can also promote gut health.
When I first had the acid reflux/ulcers etc, I actually used to have a spoonful of probiotic yogurt every morning before taking my pills, and it felt like it neutralised everything it touched. I was having the Total one like you say. Even though it's more expensive, having just a spoon every day didn't break the bank. LIDL used to do a good plain probiotic yogurt too, don't know if they still do that, I remember it was quite large tho.
What are the fermented foods you're thinking of? Things like kimchi? I presume you don't mean fermented grapes/apples aka cider/wine (which got me in trouble in the first place!)
Yes, things like kimchi! I wondered if they might be a better option as you have had problems with dairy.
I've not found a probiotic yoghurt in Lidl, I must have another look. As I have to avoid gluten very carefully I tend to look on food as medicine so I don't mind spending out on good stuff.
I always remember the cheapness of the Lidl probiotic yogurt because of the time a friend used a whole load to 'age' some concrete in her garden - apparently healthy bacteria have many uses! Is kimchi a Whole Foods type of product? I've seen it on TV but not in shops.
Finding fermented foods in the UK seems to be difficult unless you live somewhere with specialist shops. My son has found proper sauerkraut, something a little less exotic than kimchi, in a Polish shop.
I have bought a book on making your own fermented foods, but haven't yet got up the courage to try any!
I have bad childhood memories of things like sauerkraut and gefilte fish! I see where you're heading with this though... Looking at cultures where traditional preservation of food has been continued through to the modern day.
I sent Penel a query about which version of the Fage Total Greek Yoghurt she tends to favour, i.e. the 0% or 2% versions (not sure if there are any other versions), and I wondered what you tend to choose, and your reasons for that choice.
I've eaten both kinds, and like the taste of both, but wanted to ask you and Penel, as I notice you've both bought that type of yoghurt, and consider it a healthy choice.
Hi Lowcal. I used to get the 0% Total yogurt and a punnet of strawberries as a treat when I worked in Maida Vale, opposite quite a posh corner shop, and would have this healthy strawberry and low fat yog combo as my healthy afternoon treat spread over the week (bowl of chopped strawberries with a dollop of yogurt on top) - this is before I had the stomach problems and before I put on weight. Also not only was I slim, but everyone in the office was either skinny or on a diet, so it was culturally normal there to have low fat snacks like that. Later on when I started having the stomach problems and would wake up every morning with acid reflux and had nasty pills to take first thing, I started to really feel the benefit of milky food. Milk, yogurt, soft cheese etc all seemed to really soothe my throat and stomach on the way down (this was a time when lots of foods were disagreeing with me). Could have been an illusion of course but I got really into this idea of a soothing spoon of yogurt to start the day! At the same time I was putting on weight like nobody's business (I've since put this down to being a side effect of the pills I was taking - although it's always easy to blame these things on a pill!) I tried getting low fat greek yogurt (just Asda own) and found it wasn't as good as the full fat (not as soothing). As I was only having a spoon each morning I experimented with different types of yogurt - flavoured/natural etc. I tried the little yogurt drinks even but none of them suited me at all! I had an extended period of flirtation with Rachel's coconut yogurt. But I eventually stuck with Total. It felt the lightest but most soothing, something about the way it's made - I wonder if you could just whip normal greek yogurt to get the same texture? So partly out of a kind of superstitous need to find things that worked, I went with the full fat Total - I needed a light but creamy combination - all to do with how it coated my throat. Ironically I've since been told that dairy foods may be aggravating my stomach so have cut them out altogether for now.
Mine is a strange experience I think and possibly not applicable to anyone else. When I was slim and eating 0% Total yogurt in my fancy job, I'd still have normal butter in my sandwiches etc - I just got the 0% because the shop sold it and I wanted to appear 'healthy'. Also it tastes just as good as the 2%. But when I ended up with stomach ulcers and overproduction of acid, I ended up gravitating towards the full fat (blue lid), not for health or dietary reasons, just for the way it soothed my throat!
I really appreciate your reply, and thanks very much for that. It's really interesting to read your experience. I think I'll stick with the 0% for the moment, as I do like the taste.
I've been considering my 'snacking behaviour' this week, and I'll definitely add to your post about that subject later in the week - it's helpful to consider such things and compare notes.
I noticed that you've had the Fage Total Greek yoghurt, and I was wondering which one you tend to buy in terms of the fat content? I've currently got the 0% version, which has 57 calories per 100g, and has 0g fat (in accordance with its name!), 4g carbs (of which sugars = 4g) and protein 10.3 g per 100g, and salt 0.1g per 100g.
I don't know how this compares to the higher fat varieties, and I'd be interested to hear why you choose whichever one you have.
As I've said within this post, I think fats are good for us, but I don't like to have too much fat in my overall day's calories, and therefore prefer to use olive oil and some butter in my cooking than use up the fat calories within yoghurt, but at the same time, I wonder if I might lose any nutrients in the yoghurt through not having the fattier versions.
I'm going to copy and paste this reply to Ruth as well, as I note that she sometimes uses Total yoghurt.
Because I have to eat gluten free, and there are several other foods I have to avoid, my diet is probably a bit different from many other people. I can't tolerate lactose, so I don't drink milk, but can eat yoghurt as a source of calcium.
I eat the full fat variety, it has 5 grms fat and 96 calories per 100 grms. The fatty acids have been shown to inhibit inflammation of the gut, (which for me was very important), and some studies have suggested they can reduce the risk of diabetes. It also contains fat soluble vitamins A and K2.
I often eat yoghurt for breakfast, with some added fruit, nuts etc. so the calorie count seems ok to me for a meal.
The live cultures and protein content mean that, whether you eat full or no fat versions, it's a still a good food. Perhaps try the 2% version?
We are waiting the arrival of a granddaughter, so hopefully this will be a very good week! 😄
You both gave me some good advice about yoghurt choices, thanks again, and I just wanted you both to know that I bought the Total full-fat version today, and found it very tasty. Now I only need to try the 2% version. I bought it in Iceland and they didn't have the 2% version, not sure why.
I suspect I may end up choosing the 2% one, as the full-fat one is probably a bit too creamy tasting for me.
Penel - I hope your Grand-daughter will arrive soon! Very exciting!
Glad to hear you tried the full fat version, it certainly is very creamy. I sometimes alternate it with the Yeo full fat, which has slightly less fat and calories.
We are all hoping that our granddaughter arrives soon, especially my daughter!
Asda does a 3 pack of individual microwaveable portions of brown rice that cooks in 1 minute. It's by Uncle Ben and costs 2.99. Each packet is 125g and is around 250 cals. I've been swapping it when eating with my family for example if we are having Chicken Tonight I will give my family potatoes on the side but I will replace with the brown rice. It takes a bit of getting used to after white rice but I prefer it now and it is very filling.
I do lots of swaps like that when I'm cooking with my boyfriend. I often put both normal and sweet potatoes in the oven, so we can have a bit of each, in whatever proportions we prefer (I go more sweet than normal, he goes more normal, with just a smidge of the sweet potato)
Quite interesting, we changed to brown rice a while ago and prefer it to white now. I do agree you need carbs in your diet, it's all down to moderation, a mixed diet is much better for you. I think portion control is the answer in high calorie foods but don't go without them alltogether.
Yes, it's good how our taste buds can change over time, so we end up enjoying the healthier food choices - it can take a while sometimes depending on what it is, but I find that brown rice is really tasty - having an almost 'nutty' type of taste.
I agree with you about portion sizes. I always try to avoid the refined carbs (like white flour, white rice, etc), but having some complex carbs in the diet constitutes a healthy choice, and thankfully I've been able to lose weight eating this way, and have managed to keep off the 5 extra stones I used to carry around with me.
Yes, the weekend is here, and it's been a really nice one so far - some sunshine! Lovely!
Hope you're enjoying your weekend, and I look forward to catching up with you tomorrow at the weigh-in.
Thanks Lowcal, it's always interesting to read differing views on this subject.
It's certainly a good idea to avoid processed foods and refined carbs as much as possible, but I think the author of the article may be confusing Paleo diets with Low Carb diets. Paleo diets don't have to be low carb diets, they tend to exclude gluten containing grains, but often include the other carbs like quinoa, buckwheat, and sweet potato.
I think both diets started out as a way of attempting to combat various health problems, including obesity, and will suit some people, some of the time.
Very Low Carb diets were initially used to reduce the effects of epilepsy in children, and were also found to promote weight loss in people with metabolic problems such as PCOS, type 2 diabetes and obesity. They obviously don't suit everyone, but with the increase in insulin resistance in the adult population, the type and amount of carbohydrate we eat has become very significant.
I find I have to be careful to keep my carb intake fairly low to keep my weight under control and having a carb breakfast does not work for me. I'm also a big fan of natural live yoghurt!
Yes, I noticed that the author was talking about Paleo diets as if they were specifically low carb, and I think one of the people who commented at the end of the article (i.e. in the comments section below it) made that same comment as you did.
I appreciate your considered and thoughtful response, especially including the history of very low carb diets. I realise they are helpful for people who have metabolic problems etc.
I wanted to share my own experience of including complex carbs as part of a healthy balanced diet in this thread, because sometimes I think that low carb diets are sometimes 'promoted' as a way forward for all, and I wonder if that is helpful.
I have also noticed that the Low carb high fat diet is promoted too, and I am particularly wary of that diet, as I feel it may encourage people to eat lots of fat, and to end up deprived of nutrients and fibre. I am aware of the latest research on saturated fats, but to promote a diet with a title 'low carb, high fat' suggests that people can just eat a large amount of fat and remain healthy.
I do think it's really good that we can discuss issues in a forum like this, as it is always good to promote healthy discussion!
Thank you, we have had an enjoyable weekend, I hope you have too.
It is definitely very useful to have forums for discussion and sharing experiences.
Eating a good range of 'real' food does seem the best way to go for most people. There is some interesting research going on about the role of gut bacteria (biome) in obesity, and the importance of keeping it healthy.
Thanks! Yes an interesting point about when to eat carbs, eg with lower fat proteins. So my occasional wholemeal cheese and tomato toastie is not so wise! Better to have the tomatoes on toast , and leave the cheese for later grated on a salad maybe!
I don't understand why the wholemeal cheese and tomato toastie combination isn't ok - it sounds like a delicious mixture of protein and fat (the cheese has both elements), vegetable (the tomato - made even healthier by heating it up to release the lycopene) and the complex carbs in the wholemeal bread. Sounds like a good combination to me. Also cheese grated on salad sounds good, but I'd add in some olive oil and balsamic dressing to that, as vinegar slows the absorption of carbs in your blood-stream apparently (or so I've read).
Hope you're having a great weekend, and thanks for responding to this thread.
Thanks Lowcal, maybe I misunderstood , thought t article recommended to mix carbs with lean proteins not higher fat proteins......? I admit it does all get a bit complicated for me, but as Im 4 months into maintaining my target weight and bmi of 23, I wont get too hung up on it 😊
Thankyou Lowcal... its certainly not easy finding a maintenance level and Im still logging most days. But I have had two holidays, parties, had guests to stay ...all the things that affect one's eating, and I just fluctuate within a 2-3 lbs range. I can live with that. 😀
Thanks for your response. I've read through your reply a few times, and have to admit that I find your points a little difficult to follow. It is true that there does appear to have been an over-emphasis on people cutting down on fat, especially during the 'low-fat diet' phases, rather than switching from unhealthy to healthier fats.
Are you saying that 60% fat in the diet is what you would think was appropriate? Or am I misunderstanding your point?
Thank you for your reply, and I do understand your points better with your further explanation. Many thanks.
I have to say that I disagree with your comment that 'carbohydrate is akin to driving with the nitrous oxide boost on' - I think it all depends on that type of carbohydrate we're talking about, and I would suggest that research has shown that the brain, central nervous system, kidneys, and muscles are particularly dependent on carbs to function properly. Infact all the tissues and cells in our body can use glucose (the basic unit of a carb) for energy.
Carbs also help the body absorb calcium, which is important for keeping our bones and teeth healthy etc. That's why some people who restrict carbs in their diet end up suffering from hair loss etc - and that's just what they notice on the outside. I worry about their muscles being compromised by such deficits in the diet.
Eating complex carbs like whole-grain cereals, brown rice, whole-grain breads, vegetables, beans, legumes, raw nuts, seeds, whole-grain pasta etc are all extremely healthy. I agree that avoiding refined carbs like white rice and white pasta, pastries, sugary drinks etc is important, as these are definitely unhealthy and often over eaten, contributing to obesity and other health issues.
I noticed that the Institute of Medicine recommends 40 to 65% of total caloric intake from carbs; 10 to 35% from protein, and 20 to 35% from fat. Fat is essential to the diet and helps store vitamins, protect organs and provides energy, but I would still need much more long-term research to be undertaken before I'd raise my fat intake to a level such as 60% of my total calorie intake. I would consider that to be potentially unsafe.
I started this thread because I wanted to advocate for the healthy carbs and hope that people will continue to have them as part of a healthy balanced diet. I just want to raise people's consideration on these issues, because our health is one of the most important things in our lives.
I doubt that the experts think that people should eat more carbohydrates than they actually need - it's purely the proportions of carbs within the diet that are advocated within a recommended daily allowance, and of course that will vary depending on an individual's needs (how much exercise etc they are undertaking), and that variation is allowed for in the range advocated.
Regarding your specific question, I'm not saying that fat is unsafe. To clarify further, (and I may be repeating things I wrote earlier) I believe healthy fats are vital macronutrients, alongside the other macronutrients (healthy carbs, proteins and fats). They all have a vital place in a healthy balanced diet, and thankfully research has given us information that helps us be able to choose our nutrients wisely - i.e. enabling us to choose complex carbs like oats, whole-grain bread, etc, and restrict refined carbs like white flour, sugary cakes and biscuits etc; and choosing fats such as olive oil, fish oils, flaxseed oil, but avoiding trans fats. Of course, we can all choose wisely or unwisely, and that's our choice, based on the available information and advice, and our wish to keep up with that advice (not an easy task, as so much is written and it's such a complicated and ever-morphing subject).
Most of us are not nutritionists or dieticians, and it's helpful to have reliable sources of advice.
However, I am particularly wary of those diets which advocate eating low proportions of carbs and high proportions of fat (commonly called LCHF diets) - and the reason I am wary of those, is that they appear to go against the advice given by the various experts who have contributed to the health guidelines.
I just googled LCHF diets, and found an interesting blog by Ben Greenfield which highlights 4 potential dangers of such diets. This is not a stand alone article, as there are others out there, with similar concerns.
Concerned - when you first wrote one of your replies above, (above my response where I gave a link to the health recommendation article about RDA's) you originally mentioned that you agreed with the majority of what I'd written, but I notice you've now removed that response. I'm not sure why you've done that, as it makes the flow of the 'conversation' slightly disjointed if others are reading the thread, and also makes me wonder on which issues we currently concur and where we now have divergent opinions. But perhaps you've changed your mind regarding the contents of that particular response, in which case it is understandable that you chose to remove it.
I do hope that others will feel free to join in this discussion, and I hope that further healthy debate will ensue.
I haven't got the time to analyse and respond to every point you've made - but I do understand that we definitely differ in our opinions.
Yes, you're right, I do believe (based on the national guidelines) that it is 'safer' to eat a higher proportion of complex carbohydrates than it is to eat a higher proportion of fat, and I'm definitely going to continue to follow the guidelines put forward by the National bodies, until I see any constructive evidence to support a need to change these recommendations.
I am not saying fat is bad, and carbs are good - I am recognising that there are good carbs (in addition to bad carbs), and good fats (in addition to bad fats). The body requires both fats and carbs (and protein of course) - and I believe that ideally we should try to select the good fats and good carbs, and ensure that we eat within the daily recommendations.
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