Fed up of doctors not doing their job!!!!!

[Helenireland]

Hi I am just wondering has anyone ever though of sueing their doctor for neglect or misdiagnosis ? Maybe it might make them less blasé about thyroid and it's effect !

[alexandra_cmpbll]

yeah, im the same sick of them under estimating the effect this has on me and not upping my thyroxine when he should although my blood tests say I need more I am told to wait till I have more symptoms! mean time I am constantly exhausted, my hands and feet are swollen and painful, if thats not symptomatic what is?

[helvella Administrator Thyroid UK]

I am not a lawyer! So this is simply as I see things.

Going to law would be prohibitive for all of us unless funded from elsewhere. And I say that without knowing how rich anyone here is. The amounts that could be required are so large even the richest would notice them.

Further, in general, the courts tend not to want to get involved in cases where there are unexplored avenues of redress such as the GMC or other (appropriate) professional bodies, etc. Especially as the GMC does have some formal legal standing and is not simply a professional body.

The best way of winning a court case would be first to win a case at the GMC. Then seek damages, etc. through the courts. But if you got to that point, the medical defence organisations would be in there trying to ameliorate their liabilities. They do this by making offers before the damages hearings. You would be put in a position of having to refuse what they offer in order for the case to go forward. And they are extremely well-versed in achieving their ends. (This is not meant to be totally damning of the medical defence people - after all, in many cases damages only get paid because they exist.)

Further, although we do indeed hear of some pretty bad cases, what most of us really want is for all doctors to be better at doctoring. Especially related to the thyroid. Hanging one, or a few, up to dry increases the fear within the profession which is already at a very high level. And might make them even more rigidly wedded to any guidelines that exist.

[NBob in reply to helvella]

I am not a lawyer either but I do have some experience of law in other areas. A little knwoledge is a dangerous thing so it woudl be best if a real lawyer checked this.

I think that negligence and impaired fitness to practice although closely related are distinct and different regimes.

Cases for negligence are brough t before the civil courts and are to gain compensation for damages casued by negligent action. The compensation goes to the plaintiff (person who brought the case).

Doctors are brought before the Medical Practitioners Tribunal Service after referral from the GMC for allegations of a doctors seriously impared fitness to practice.

The GMC places restrictions on the doctors license or can stike the docotor off the medical record for themost serious matters. The complainant does not recieve any compensation other than the satisfaction that a bad doctor has been dealt with.

Less serious matters should be dealt with by the doctors employers/contracting body.

I beleive that it would be possible if the case is serious enough to take a doctor through both regimes at the same time for the same poor medical practices. the burden of proof in both regimes is that of a civil case i.e. on the balance of probabilities.

I'm not sure I agree with helvella about hanging a doctor out to dry becasue the weight of evidence for a proper diagnosis is overwhelming and many patients are being harmed by this negligent bad medicine. If the time for formal action is not now I think it it is soon approaching.

, taking a weak case to court and losing will not help anybody and possibly turn back the cause for a long time.

i think that we as a community have the evidence necessary to mount a good case both at the GMC and in court but we need a patient who is willing to go through the rigours of a court case including giving evidence and someone to pay the lawyers.

A first step would be to speak to solicitor about what evidence would be necessary to take a doctor to the GMC, picking the right case and how to fund it.

[NBob in reply to NBob]

PS

For a court case the plaintiff would need to pay for expert witneses most of whom live abroad and some live in the US. Their travel and accommodation fess would be huge never mind their professional fees. Ultimately this could come out of costs awarded but the plaintiff woudl have to pay up in the beginning

[Helenireland]

Hi yes good point how do we get changes I'm so mad that my life was ruined by blood test saying I was hypo and doctors !! Saying to stop eating which I actually did ! I know your right it's just so frustrating if you were working in a company and made such bad errors you could possibly loose ur job but doctors get away with it as they say they bury their mistakes :(! I know not all doctors are crap I have been fortunate to get two good ones but it is 20 years too late

[NBob in reply to Helenireland]

Chairman Mao said "Change will only come at the barrel of a gun" but there are other ways here. I think patients should start complaining to the GMC but in a structured way with reference to Good Medical Practice. other forum members have highlighted that the Mid Staffs debacle was highlighted by patient complaints.

[Hidden]

The other action would be to ask for a second opinion, it is your right.

I've never had a problem with my GP, so feel sorry for people not getting the same level of service.

[VanessaB]

My doctors has been great for some things they do their job brilliantly and unfortunately it is not actually their fault but they should have specialised thyroid clinics like asthma clinics and other ongoing chronic illnesses.Nurses and specialists who deal with it on a day to day basis where vitamin tests and blood tests are done frequently and people treated as per symptoms.I remain hopeful whilst I trust my doctor to treat me for some things my thyroid is not one of them.

[Helenireland]

I know that they are not all bad don't get me wrong and yes a thyroid clinic would be the way forward

[Hidden]

i know exatly how you feel. i now call my consultations with gp s confrontations. ever since diagnosed with thyoid problems regards brenda

[Helenireland]

Thanks Brenda yes they are like that at least we have the knowledge to argue

[Hidden]

I fear that when people want to sue the health service, local council...etc. they forget that any recompense they may win will come from OUR taxes, and therefor there is even left to improve the service they are fighting for.

[Glynisrose]

There is now no automatic right to a second opinion, the tories stopped that with their changes to the NHS constitution last year, (sneaky huh!!) There would be little point in suing a doctor, they have so many get outs because they follow the RCP guidelines on treating thyroid problems. What I hate is the lack of respect, the dismissing of MY thoughts and ideas even though I am the patient!!

[alangardner in reply to Glynisrose]

i must correct you on this point..ALL patients are entitled to a second opinion if they disagree with a dr's/consultants diagnosis or treatment .i personally did this recently [early feb 2013] . i would also recommend that you insist - through your g.p.as is the correct procedure - on the second opinion be made from a trust OUTSIDE of the current one- of YOUR CHOICE . you will then be given at least one and up to three choices for YOU to choose from and be supplied with details of how to make the referal appointment to the hospital or clinic of your choice . your preffered choice will then deal directly with you for appointments and notify your g.p. directly with ALL information at all times and not the previous hospital/clinic....at this moment in time this RIGHT cannot be withdrawn by parliament as it is enshrined in the rule book----confirmed to myself by my own g.p, [ who is ,in my opinion , second to none ] if you want any further info please let me know....alan....ps our own prefered hospital have untill 13/3 to contact with the appt.--their average time for appts.currently is 36days in this hosp.---so fingers crossed i will get this resolved sooner rather than later---so i know as a fact that this does work ..lol

[NBob]

the biggest obstacle to suing a doctor for negligence is the cost of taking court action because so far as i know, legal aid is not available for most cases of medical negligence.

the steps for proving medical negligence are

the doctor must owe a duty of care

that duty of care must be breached

harm must result from that breach

two legal cases are of interest to thyroid patients

The medical negligence case of Bolam v Friern Hospital established that a doctor is not guilty of negligence if he has acted in accordance with a practice accepted as proper by a responsible body of medical men skilled in that particular art . . . Putting it the other way round, a man is not negligent, if he is acting in accordance with such a practice, merely because there is a body of opinion who would take a contrary view

It follows that the RCP is a body of medical opinion and under this piece of case law, you would think that means that doctors who follow the RCP/BTA statement are free from action in negligence.

HOWEVER

the later case of Bolitho v City and Hackney Health Authority said that the court is not bound to hold that a defendant doctor escapes liability for negligent treatment or diagnosis just because he leads evidence from a number of medical experts who are genuinely of opinion that the defendant's treatment or diagnosis accorded with sound medical practice.

In other words just because a doctor follows the RCP statement it doesn't stop him being negligent.

their Lordships went on to say the court has to be satisfied that the exponents of the body of opinion relied upon can demonstrate that such opinion has a logical basis. We have a substantial weight of evidence to show that the RCP/BTA statement is absolutely not logical.

Further we have many stories of how the misdiagnosis has caused harm.

All that is needed is for someone with deep pockets to approach a lawyer to review the cases and select either one or a number of cases to take to court. the point would be to get a judgement and costs rather than damages. Damages would be useful but would be better used in paying for better treatment of thyroid patients.

Tom Kark QC springs to mind because he acted as legal Councel for the GMC and reviewed Sarah Myhills case, which resulted in her case being dropped by the GMC. he was also legal Coucel to the Mid Staffs Inquiry. I expect his fees to be rather high. BTW I am not Tom Kark

[LouiseRoberts in reply to NBob]

lol! Thanks for clarifying that! x

[ravenhex]

I now complain instantly I get home from a BAD DR meeting. I write to the hospital concerned and make waves. I aim soley to get it in writing or on voice recorded CD, the exact condition of me and what was done or not done. Getting them to admit accountablilty is the goal.

Make it known any, remarks, looks, etc in your general direction abot the fact you have complained will be taken as hostile intent and a breach in the data protection act, of which you will seek legal redress.

Certain nurses especially can make these comments, or make you wait longer than necessary for treatment etc.

I was left in Xray, for 3 hours, after I complained aobut a Nurse. The Xray Dept rang my Consultant and asked him to come down immediatley. He was present with a rather frozen me and I was brought by both him and the Senior Radiographer who proceeded to inform the nurses to get Sister in and the Ward Management as they were issuing a formal aggrieved complaint about deliberate mistreatment of a patient. Never seen such a flurry of work or such pale faces on nurses.

Only 2 made the mistake of snide comments which I just rang the Ward manager, loudly told her to get on the ward pronto or else. Not a peep after that was heard.

Im considering making a legal claim as its getting on my nerves now, the dallying of one of the PALS team who seem to think the P in Pals means siding with Drs and ignoring patients.

Things to remember is , time line. They say 5 years the event has to be within, This can be 5 minutes, 3 months. They move the goal posts as and when. You are expected to complain, let PALS help, then upscale it, then legally sue.

I'd say, if you come out of an appointment or operation and , nurse are particulary nasty, Consultancy lacking etc, Complain the very same day, always in writing, email, cheap. Take a screen shot (PRT SCREEN button) open a paint program. paste and save the image. Make sure the complaint is visible and always the date on the screen. Just incase they try to claim never got it.

if postal, recorded with signature. Insist it must be signed for, always allow them 21 days max, 7-10 to answer. Always insist on confirmation they got the letter.

Never chat via calls unless you can record it, and tell them you are. If they refuse, and they do, ask them to put that in writing and to corespond only in that form. All meetings, ensure it is recorded and minutes taken. Any mistake in the minutes of which you insist on a copy, inform them of.

They will try to wriggle out of it.

[Barbaraj]

I have just looked on Google and there are a whole list of solicitors who pursue medical negligence claims on a 'no win - no fee' basis so never be put of by lack of funds!

[Helenireland]

Hi Barbraj thank u but was thinking of setting up an awareness campaign instead like someone pointed out no point in getting one or two try to educate the mass of patients instead . If anyone could help on how to go about this that be fab

[Helenireland]

I was so angry the other day Barbaraj especially when I read the suffering of others on the site and of course what I'm going through . x

[Glynisrose]

No you are not automatically entitled to a second opinion. Nor are you automatically entitled to see a specialist. You now have to negotiate with your GP to get one of either. The NHS constitution was changed last year by the government, I suggest anyone who wants to read it googles 'NHS Constitution' and reads it.