How long for a increase of Armour to show in bloods, heart rate , temps and symptoms

[ainslie]

in Sept 2024 I reduced my dose of Armour from 3.5 Grains to 3 Grains to see if it would make any difference to my intermittent Tachychardia (suggested by hormone doc). I dont think it made much difference to the tachy but it did make a difference to how I was feeling, more tired and lower mood , my heart rate dropped and my bowel movements were not so good , belching , burping etc

My counts on 3.5 Grains Sept 24, TSH < 0.005 mIU/L (Range 0.27-4.2)

FT3 4.2 pmol/L (Range 3.1-6.8)

Ft4 18.7pmol/L (Range 12-22)

I felt okay at that dose but had some tachycardia.

By 20 March this year on 3 Grains I was feeling tired, and a bit unwell and heart rate on Rest down about 10 beats to around 50 on rest (60 on 3.5 grains in Sept 24) and still having tachy so thought this experiment is not working so increased my Armour to 3.25 Grains on 20 March and to 3.5 on 28 March. So about a week so far on 3.5 Grains. So far a week later I dont notice any improvement in heart rate or how I feel.

So my learned friends my question is how long after increasing from 3 to 3.5 Grains should it take to

1. See a increase in heart rate

2. See a difference in FT3 and FT4 , ie when to retest

3. Feel less symptomatic

4. See a increase in temps

I noticed after I reduced my dose I was burping and belching more and wonder if the lower acid from the lower dose has caused some gut issues (eg leaky gut or candida etc) which may explain why I have been feeling lousy, tired, spaced, bit headachey, a bit toxic or something.

All views welcome

[pennyannie]

Hello Ainslie :

i think it's best to adjust by 1/4 grains -

and you would need to leave 6-8 weeks on a dose change to see any difference in blood tests :

Clinical facts such as blood pressure, pulse and body temperature can be seen to change within a week, symptoms of hypothyroidism can be insidious and may well start creeping in within a week or two -

We generally suggest a fasting blood test having left around 10-12 hours from your last dose of any thyroid hormone replacement containing T3.

Obviously if you have absorption issue this may well cause issues - with hypothyroid the body metabolism is slowed and low stomach acid a common problem -

and why some introduce ACV - apple cider vinegar with ' mother ' - natural enzymes - diluted in water before the main meal containing the most protein - or take digestive enzymes to try to facilitate an easier breakdown of food and body motility.

[ainslie in reply to pennyannie]

I should have said I did indeed increase by a quarter then another to get 3.5 .

I have read previously that for TSH we need to wait for 6-8 weeks but I thought I read with FT3/4 it can be re measured after a few days on the new dose?

I think I am feeling a tad better since going back to 3.5 grains and tempted to raise again by another quarter, having to wait 6 weeks for bloods seems a long wait.

I did wonder if I had absorbtion problems as I seem to need a higher dose of NDT than most, in fact I suspect I may need 4 grains to optimise which apart from anything else is rather expensive to say the least, although Dr Peatfield told me he was on 4 grains and I read some need 5, ouch. Is it like testosterone it can be bound up ie total is high but free is low, in testosterone it is bound up inn SHBG , I have high SHBG (allegedly due to low TSH) and hence low free testosterone even on high dose testosterone. I wonder if I have the same issue with thyroid as opposed to absorbtion.

[pennyannie in reply to ainslie]

Ok then -

First off - ignore your TSH - it is a very unreliable measure of anything once on any form of thyroid hormone replacement.

I have no knowledge of SHBG - and with NDT you simply dose to the relief of symptoms being tolerated -

you learnt from the ' best ' so surely - just go without -

you'll know when you have gone too far - as you'll start feeling a bit edgey, jumpy and just uncomfortable in your body - and this is easily rectified by just dropping back down that last 1/4 grain you increased by :

If interested in an accurate blood test for tracking your T3 you'll need to wait around 6-8 weeks for the thyroid hormones to have settled and bedded into your body..

[ainslie in reply to pennyannie]

okay thanks, do we on here think the temps and heart rate are good for assessing optimum thyroid levels

[pennyannie in reply to ainslie]

Well I self medicate NDT - and tracked on my blood pressure, pulse and body temperature AM & PM when I switched over from T4 monotherapy and it helped me understand my body better -

NDT takes time to bed in the body and just waiting on a blood test 8 weeks away I found clinical factual results reinforced my focus to keep going -

You'll know when you've gone too far - and dropping back that last 1/4 grain easily rectified - and optimal is where you feel your best with as few and hopefully no symptoms of hypothyroidism.

[ainslie in reply to pennyannie]

okay thank you 👍

[Incoguto]

You could be feeling better, because you need t3, so when you increase your dose, it helps, your ft3 wasn't high or even midrange on NDT in September, which could have been causing intermittent tachycardia when your conversion was struggling from that higher ft4. Just one theory

[ainslie in reply to Incoguto]

thanks

I am interested in what you say may have been causing the tachycardia, is that a known cause of tachy or your personal theory.? I did read somewhere that low thyroid or high thyroid can cause tachy so it seems a grey area. Some docs believe subclinical hyperthroidism ie normal FT3 and Ft4 but supressed TSH, the emphasis was on the very low TSH can cause tachy, when I dropped my dose from 3.5 to 3 grains my TSH didnt come back in to range during the 4-5 months I experimented, this surprised me because back in 2021 I was on 3 grains and TSH was 0.3 , on 3.5 grains it was 0.005. In 2021 I didnt have tachy , hence the experiment to see if I would be tachy free on 3 grains but it didnt help the tachy, I have a niggle that if the TSH had recovered would the tachy have gone but I felt to lousy on 3 grains this time to wait for the TSH to recover