Essential trace elements

[Caze]

Blue Horizon do a test which includes Copper Magnesium zinc and selenium. They are currently doing 20 percent off. Any opinions as to whether it's worthwhile having these tests?

[SlowDragon Administrator]

That’s interesting.

I have been considering doing that test for ages

Wether it’s worth the cost …..I guess depends on wether results show anything out of range

What vitamin supplements are you taking

[Caze in reply to SlowDragon]

I take:

vit D, vit K, (in the winter at least) B vits , B12, magnesium & zinc. Selenium is included in the multi vit patch I use but I don't supplement additionally. Zinc is included in my collagen supplement which I take in the evening as I have high p.m cortisol. I have neuropathy so I was hoping the B vits might help. I use a Magnesium patch before bed as it supposed to relax one prior to sleep .

[FallingInReverse]

Magnesium testing in blood is pointless because only about 1% of the body's magnesium is in the blood, with the majority stored in bones and cells.

For copper and zinc it’s both the individual levels as well as the ratio between the two as they compete for metabolic pathways and they can get out of balance.

I’ve had them tested because I was curious, my guess is most people have not had them tested, but there are definitely people on this forum who have found them helpful and so I thought I’d do it just to see.

Not sure about selenium.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to FallingInReverse]

I’ve had them tested because I was curious

Did it show anything interesting

[Wua13262348 in reply to SlowDragon]

I have done the blue horizon one and also the Cerascreen test , which gives zinc and selenium, but not copper, unfortunately. I was 441% through the range for Selenium , supplementing 200 mcg selenomethionine 1/8/22-18/11/22. Without supplementing selenium for 3 months , I was still 142% through the range for selenium. Had I not done the 2 blood tests , measuring zinc and selenium, I would not have been able to figure out the following:

By googling to see what causes high selenium I was able to see that a homozygous CBS mutation (can present like Marfans Syndrome which presents like Ehlers Danlos Syndrome) that I have causes up-regulated selenium, which renders you unable to properly breakdown selenomethionine, which accumulates in the body. According to Izabella Wentz and Dr. Lam, per internet search, CBS mutation is a transsulfuration pathway and methylation pathway problem, and causes you to be hypothyroid and lose vit B12 too quickly. Vit B12, folate and Vit B6 are very much involved in the problem.

As FallingInReverse points out, supplementing one mineral has a corresponding effect elsewhere as minerals compete with one another for absorption. Selenium's antagonist is sulphur. Sulphur's antagonist is zinc. Copper's antagonists are zinc, molybdenum, iron and potassium, and so on and so forth. Consequently, when I supplemented selenomethionine , zinc was low, but increased when I stopped supplementing selenomethionine. If supplementing selenium, the site, b12oils.com, states that "selenite" should be used, and not selenomethionine.

On a hair mineral analysis test I have only recently done, I am deficient in selenium . I am currently supplementing selenite, transdermally, as well as molybdenum.

A hair mineral analysis, in retrospect, I believe to be a much more useful and cost effective test than the Blue Horizon Test mentioned, as it measures a multitude of minerals at a lesser or similar cost. It measures calcium, magnesium, sulfur, potassium, copper,zinc,phosphorus,iron, manganese,chromium, selenium,cobalt,molybdenum and sodium. I did a Mindovermetal test, but the Doctors Data one also measures iodine. From the hair test I can see I have functional B12 deficiency as no cobalt can be measured. You only need hair for this , no blood draw necessary. The explanation which came with the hair results states I am very hypothyroid at a cellular level, though my thyroid bloods may look great, which they do. The hair test explanation also mentioned I may be high in progesterone but very low in estrogen, which is absolutely right as I also did a female hormone blood test at the same time.

On the hair test I am deficient in copper. I should not, however supplement copper. By referring to a metabolic gene panel I have, I can see that I have mutations and symptoms for 3 different copper diseases, one of which accounts for my hypermobility and lack of bowel control since 1995 since it causes dysautonomia. (gene mutation APT7a) In some people this may be the cause of POTS. I know that Jaydee1507 and yourself, are also hypermobile and that you both have your genetic profile. Do you have mutations for CP, APT7a or APT7B??? All 3 are diseases of copper metabolism, though all do different things, one of which is to do with transferrin and iron metabolism.

Problems with copper metabolism, can cause problems at the THALAMUS. My hypothyroidism results indicate Central Hypothyroidism. This is thought to be problems at the hypothalamus and/or pituitary. I believe now that the THALAMUS is key, and at the root of my problem , being a major sensory relay station in the vicinity of the pituitary and hypothalamus. I believe you too had blood test results suggesting Central Hypothyroidism. Copper metabolism problems can target the thalamus. humanbean

Functional B12 deficiency only exacerbates signalling problems.

I feel now that in future , hair mineral testing and OATS testing are the way forward for me personally. Unfortunately, very expensive.

The APT7a mutation being a copper metabolism problem must be an extremely recent discovery, as it seems to have been very, very briefly been labelled as , "familial joint hypermobiity". Historically, it used to be type 1X (9) Ehlers Danlos Syndrome, Cutis Laxa, but is actually a copper metabolism defect, being a mild form of Menkes disease, which usually kills by age 3.

[SlowDragon Administrator in reply to Wua13262348]

Very interesting

I have tested selenium on its own in the past ….(on recommendation of gastroenterologist, after my endoscopy confirmed gluten intolerance )

tested roughly a year after taking 100ug daily

Selenium was just over range

I now only take twice a week……

[Caze in reply to FallingInReverse]

So did you find it useful or was it an expensive waste of time?

[SlowDragon Administrator]

Apparently its not a test that can be done by finger prick …..so it’s £30 on top for private blood draw

So that makes it more expensive

[humanbean]

Have you got a link for the test you can give us?

[TiggerMe Ambassador in reply to humanbean]

bluehorizonbloodtests.co.uk...

[humanbean in reply to TiggerMe]

Thank you.